Threxx

I don't do formal reviews so I'll just give you some of my random observations.

I'm not sure what to think of this car. It starts out fairly well equipped at only 32k with a 258hp V6 and a 6-speed manual or 6-speed auto as a 1300 dollar option and a 304hp DI version of the V6 adding another 1000 to the price. This car is priced directly to compete with the IS / TL / Infiniti G, etc... and yet in terms of size it is actually slightly larger and heavier than even the Lexus GS.

When I first read this I was disappointed. To me to offer a larger car for less money, this car was going to have to cut a lot of corners, which didn't bode well for GM... a company already known for cutting far too many corners in some of their vehicles... especially the corners that determine perceived quality.

But I was wrong. The interior is absolute first rate - destroys anything in the entry level luxury class IMO and is on par if not slightly better than anything currently in the mid-tier (GS/5-series/M/etc) class. Just beautiful in almost every regard.

I drove the weaker 258 horsepower non direct injected 6-speed automatic RWD model with the base non-sport FE1 suspension/brake/wheel package very few options. I was very much reminded of the 3rd gen GS300 I drove, for better or worse. The car was pretty quiet and drove very isolated. It wasn't slow but definitely wasn't quick. For those wanting a sportier drive and/or faster car GM is also offering an FE2 and FE3 suspension/brake/steering ratio/wheel setup, and a 304hp V6, as well as likely a 500-600hp LSx V8 in the CTS-V.

I really can see this car being all things to all people as the one I drove would have been a great budget-priced alternative to a GS300/350. Granted I have yet to drive an FE2 or FE3 equipped car to see if the suspension setups really can overcome the high curb weight of the car, but I will say I took the FE1 equipped car through some corners and despite a lack of feedback and excess of isolation, it didn't handle like an almost 4000 pound car. Many editorials have echo'd this statement as well when they took the new CTS out on the track.

This car has some SERIOUS option packages available that when combined will get the price to if not past the 50k mark. But IMO the base model is where it's at. One heck of a bargain.

I challenge you guys to stop by your caddy dealer and check one out - make sure to note which suspension and motor you're testing out, too.

The only negative thing I can say about the car is the Cadillac name it has on it. Cadillac just has some negative connotations associated with its name - high depreciation, less than stellar reliability, and the fact that it's a favorite of the 'ghetto' culture is a turn-off to many people who are concerned with image. But try to look past all of that and just look at this car for what it is - a serious bargain with a oddly enough for GM, extremely nice interior.

grondie

Thank's for the review. I'm glad GM is finally producing some world-class cars. I'm not sure about the styling, but, that's very subjective.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

Threxx thanks for the feedback. My mother-in-law has the last gen CTS and even though it's been outdone in every department by this new one, I still continue to be impressed by hers. It's not slow, it handles quite well, brakes are first class. Very roomy, love the big trunk and back seat space. The dash on hers is plain and not attractive but as you know that's now WORLDS better in the new one.

I really hope Cadillac does well with this one (actually the last gen CTS basically saved their butt).

Also, as you say, great to have the flexibility on options. Auto, stick, variety of engines, variety of suspension packages, AWD option too I believe.

I have also found customer service at my mother-in-laws Cadillac dealer to be excellent.

mmarshall

Couple of points, Threxx....and thanks for the write-up.

Having seen the new CTS in pictures and car mag articles but not having reviewed it myself or seen it personally yet, I agree that the new interior LOOKS much better in pictures than the old one....but is it REAL quality, or just the same old EL Cheapo GM plastic with some fake wood or metallic/chrome finish applied to it (see my review of the Buick Enclave) to try and look like an imitation Jaguar or Lexus? The reason I ask is that I have seen this numerous times on recent GM products in an attempt to do better-looking interiors by taking the cheap way out. Chrysler also does it on the 300C....probably their best example of glitz-coated dime store plastic.

GM, though, did make some real improvements to the dash and steering wheel of their new 2007 full-size trucks and SUV's, but only the dash/wheel...the rest of the interior is the same old GM.


Second, I'm not sure I would use the term "Ghetto" culture in describing Cadillac. The Escalade, yes, is popular with rappers.......but rappers have plenty of money and generally live in expensive houses as well. The average young person from a so-called "ghetto", in most cases, would not have the money for a new Cadillac. The STS, DTS, and certain models of the CTS are also very popular with seniors across the board, no matter what race they are or where they live.

Third, the Cadillac reliability problem is not something perceived but very real.....and the CTS, being of Opel-related design and platform, has been, particularly unreliable, especially in the V version. One car mag I was reading lately (forgot which one ) had serious rear-end and hardware problems with their Long-Term test CTS-V, and the car was in the shop and out of service numerous times. Other Caddys have shown some slight improvement in reliability lately, but are a long way from Lexus LS-level quality.

Threxx

I hate the 300c interior. I agree completely and I understand what you were saying. Granted my time with the CTS was no long-term test but it certainly fooled me if it's all surface layer glitz. I'm about as picky and unforgiving as they come with interior design, materials, assembly, and have been very critical of GM for this in the past. They passed my test this time with flying colors.

There's a difference between the ghetto culture and people who live in the ghetto. They're not the same thing. I suppose you could call it the 'rap' culture as well but you could pick that apart too so suffice to say you understand what I'm saying.

Well I never said that caddy's reliability issue was simply perception - it is definitely very real, I would never disagree with that. Is it horrible? No. But it's no Lexus, either.

I'm pretty sure that the CTS shares no platform or overall design with any Opel model, either. You might be thinking of the POS that was the CTS' predecessor, the Catera which was really just a rebadged Opel in more ways than not. The most recent gen CTS as well as this 2008 have nothing shared with the Catera or any Opel that I'm aware of.

mmarshall

Correct....to an extent. Consumer Reports does indeed give the CTS model line, in general, an average reliability rating......and I won't argue with CR. I've said before that their data is among the best. Other auto magazines, though, which have done long-term tests, especially the V version, have had significant problems...the worst was the one I mentioned above. Perhaps the V is less reliable because, in general, it is driven harder......and not bought by as many easy-driving seniors as non-V models. And enthusiast mags like Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile, etc..... are naturally going to gravitate towards the V models.

And please refrain from insulting remarks. You can disagree with me or point out an error (yes, I make mistakes sometimes) without being nasty. And making a negative statement about a vehicle does not necessarily make me biased.....heck, there are a few things about even my own Outback I don't like, and I think that the Outback, in general, is one of the best daily drivers on the market. There is no such thing as a perfect vehicle....I haven't seen one yet in my 40 years of driving and making reviews.

mmarshall

OK.....you got my curiosity up. I'm as picky as you are on interior quality...maybe even more, so I'll go look at the car for myself, but won't bother doing a formal review since you've already done a mini-review here.


The Escalade is also poplular with pro athletes, but of course they are much fewer in number.

The CTS reliability, in general, is not as bad as some other Cadillacs.....texan629 correctly noted that in his comment. And CR does indeed give it an average reliability rating. Other car magazines, however, have had significant problems with their test models...particularly the V.

The Catera was indeed a redone Opel. The CTS also shares a common platform with other Opel-derived vehicles, but less so than the Catera, at least from what I have read about its design. GM is trying to get away from the twin-cookie-cutter method of designing and rebadging vehicles, but they still share common platforms.



Anyhow, thanks again, Threxx, for taking the time to give us your obervations. And I will go check it out for myself....I hope you're right about the interior.

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

This looks like a great buy. Can't wait to see what Caddy will do with the CTS-V.

mmarshall

The last CTS-V was more or less an upmarket GTO....not literally, but there were many similarities.

Julez

when the new cts-v comes out it will be hot. I just wish caddy would have put a little more power in the base, the car is a 6 second car and heavier than most competition. the cts can only keep up with a 328i, sad.

jaydunn

One of the things I like about CL is the general level of maturity and lack of gratuitous insults found on other car forums. Thus, when I say the correct wording is "you're full of it" not your I am simply trying to defend correct English, not be insulting.

mmarshall

Well, the CTS-V, even as a sport sedan, is not meant to take on Dodge Vipers and Corvette Z06's in the quarter-mile. People who buy a V expect a luxury/sports sedan with plenty of creature comforts. Creature comforts add weight.......and weight, of course, all other things equal, slows down accleration.

By the standards of most people, though, the CTS-V has more than enough power to get out of its own way.


Same with the base model that you mention. The average CTS buyer is not looking for as pure a driving machine as a BMW 328i, and, as with the CTS-V, demands more creature comforts. Add to that the fact that the CTS is physically larger and heavier than the 328 to start with, and you have at least part of your answer.

mmarshall

That's also because we have good moderators and an Administrator that don't let things get out of hand.

If you really want to see a bunch of morons go at it, check into the AOL chat forums.

Mr. Jones

GS430 3,738
CTS 3,874lbs

GS430 weighs 135lbs less
GS350 weigs 175lbs less
IS350 weighs 350lbs less

the GS also comes standard w/leather, power telescoping steering, and sunroof.

The CTS needs to go on a serious diet.

mmarshall

Well, so do some of the people who buy it, for that matter.....but the CTS is heavy for a reason. See my comments above. Many of its potential customers want a reasonably smooth ride and the creature comforts that weight includes. Of course, people who want an even smoother ride will look first at big-brother DTS.

Cadillac tried producing a truly light car back in the early 1980's.....the Cimarron......and the results were nothing short of disastrous.