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Is the minivan dead?

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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 01:12 PM
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Default Is the minivan dead?


Crossovers like this 2009 Ford Flex are grabbing market share from dowdy minivans.


Blame it on the sliding doors.

Long stigmatized as terminally unhip suburban kid transporters, minivans have been facing a reckoning of sorts over the past year, with some manufacturers giving up on the segment altogether. Ford Motor Co. has discontinued making minivans to focus on a new trio of so-called crossovers -- models with sport-utility-vehicle proportions and practicality but generally smaller in size, with car-like handling and fuel economy. General Motors Corp. has announced it will stop producing minivans next year.

All told, the number of minivan models has shrunk to 15 for 2007, from a high of 21 in 2004, and six of those models have recently been discontinued or are slated to be soon. Sales are plunging so far this year, while sales of crossovers are surging.

The main reason? With so many vehicles aimed at families, one feature primarily distinguishes minivans from other, newer vehicle types: two sliding rear doors.

"Frankly, sliding doors are what give minivans open access, but that's what makes them uncool," says Detroit-based AutoObserver.com editor Michelle Krebs. "Practical, yes, but uncool."

Wes Brown, president of the Los Angeles-based automotive marketing firm Iceology, says the sliding door epitomizes the less-exciting realities of minivan ownership, compared to the proactive, vibrant images of go-anywhere SUVs and crossovers. "Ultimately, it's a symbol of being stuck in a rut of having a family," he says.

The remaining minivan makers have had to resort to drastic selling techniques to lure consumers away from shiny new crossovers and their cousins, including "tall wagons" like the Subaru Outback and "microvans" like the Mazda 5. Incentive spending on minivans averaged a whopping $3,900 in June, significantly outpacing the industry average of $2,483, according to consumer auto Web site Edmunds.com.

Even famously frugal Japanese companies like Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Corp., which sell the popular Sienna and Odyssey minivans, respectively, have greenlighted lucrative discounts this summer, prompting dealers to soap the windshields of new vehicles on the lot with rebate offers worth thousands of dollars.

While minivans range somewhat narrowly in price, starting around $20,000 and edging up to $40,000, crossovers range from $15,000 to well over $50,000. But minivans with third rows of seats and similarly sized crossovers are comparably priced. A top-of-the-line 2008 Buick Enclave CXL -- GM's newly released flagship crossover -- lists for $36,255, while a 2008 Chrysler Town & Country Limited minivan retails for $35,670.

Last year Americans bought 990,596 minivans, the first year since 1992 that annual sales fell below one million units, according to Edmunds.com. So far this year, sales are down 22%, potentially putting the industry on track to sell just 760,000 for the year. For the first half, minivans represented just 5.3% of total new-vehicle sales, down from 8.5% in 1995, according to the Power Information Network, a unit of J.D. Power & Associates.

Even for manufacturers with a history of innovation in the space, minivans are losing their luster. Earlier this year, what should have been Chrysler's triumphant unveiling of its revamped Town & Country model, a vehicle which helped turn around the company's fortunes in the 1980s, was overshadowed by its corporate divorce with DaimlerChrysler AG.

Volkswagen AG, maker of the iconic 1960s Microbus, decided to forgo resurrecting the model as it did successfully with the New Beetle -- despite having developed a well-received concept car. Instead, the company will use a modified version of a Chrysler Town & Country as the basis for its 2009 minivan.

This year, by contrast, crossovers are projected to be the fastest-growing segment of the otherwise soft American auto market. George Pipas, Ford's chief sales analyst, estimates industrywide sales of 2.8 million crossovers this year, up from a mere 500,000 in 2000, vastly overshadowing the market for minivans.

"It's true that we see a lot of traditional soccer moms with image issues tend to go towards crossovers," says Honda's truck-platform manager Eddie Okubo.

Some minivan makers have tried battling their image, attempting to make their offerings more hip, often to lackluster results in the market. Nissan Motor Co. tried offering a version of its Quest van with a dramatically designed center console. It sold dismally. Before deciding to abandon the segment, GM styled its last generation of minivans to look more like its SUVs. But the models sold poorly, eventually leading the company to emphasize crossovers.

"Every time anybody tried to be hipper, they failed," says AutoObserver.com's Ms. Krebs. "The core buyers want the same basics: a lot of room and more features. Anybody that's gone outside the formula hasn't been successful."

Manufacturers say that despite declines in the market, there remains a loyal group of customers -- particularly new families with younger children -- for whom minivans are a must buy.

"We believe that there's a core of customers for whom the rational -- the way they use the vehicle day-to-day -- is more important than the emotional," says Honda's Mr. Okubo. "For younger families, utility plays a major role. Sporting events, meets or games -- ultimately that lifestyle will never change."

Roomier cabins are indeed a major selling point. Steven Salazar, a 33-year-old firefighter in Austin, Texas, bought a 2007 Toyota Sienna in June to replace a seven-seat Honda Pilot SUV. "An SUV is pointless if you can't access the third row with car seats in the second row," says Mr. Salazar, who has two children and whose other family vehicle is a sporty Subaru WRX. "In any case, once you're going to be hauling around kids, the sex appeal of owning a car is gone," he says.

Even with a cohort of dedicated buyers, van makers aren't resting on their laurels. Chrysler's newest trick for its redesigned 2008 models is "Swivel 'n Go," in which the second row seats can turn around to face the third row. That feature also comes with a table that can be inserted between two rows, which Chrysler, a unit of Cerberus Capital Management LP, says merges a living room with a minivan.

Another source of innovation is rear-seat entertainment. Some of the newest high-tech, digital pacifiers offer dual screens that can operate independently such that one can be used to display a movie while the other is used for gaming. Chrysler is also launching a satellite television service for its 2008 line of minivans, the first of its kind.

Meanwhile, Ford unveiled its largest crossover entry yet in January, when it showed a 2009 model year vehicle called the Flex. The vehicle will have a third row of seats and meld aspects of a minivan with design of popular vehicles like the Mini Cooper. Features include a panoramic sunroof that occupies nearly the entire roof, an optional rear-seat refrigerator and versatile storage compartments throughout.

It doesn't have a sliding door.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1186...oo_hs&ru=yahoo
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 02:31 PM
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I doubt the minivan is like a hallmark American product, it may end up being like station wagons, but it will comeback sooner or later. Just like how station wagons are becoming more popular today.
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 02:42 PM
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Titles are being changed. That's all.

Stationwagons = "Sports Cross"

Minivans (without a sliding door) = (some) "Crossovers"
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 03:34 PM
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Ford's van might be dead, but as a insurance agent, I still see a strong market for minivan. My clients come in with new Honda Odyssey and Toyota Sienna all the time. And if all the JDM luxury Van comes in, count me in for a Alphard!!!! VIP baby!!!
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 03:47 PM
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Super Hummer?
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 06:38 PM
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I think its cooler to see people make the right choice and drive a van than people who THINK they are cool and buy a SUV they have no intentions of driving anything remotely off the pavement (families only).

That said, make mine the ugly Cayenne Turbo, thanks. lol
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 07:48 PM
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Wow, that Ford SUV looks nice... takes a lot of styling cues from RR.
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 07:51 PM
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My parents bought a minivan as oppose to a small sport-ute.

It can seat 8 passengers more comfortably, has more space for cargo, decent power, decent fuel economy, and probably has a better center gravity than the sport-utilities. We only lack off-road capabilities, but the closest thing my mom has ever come close to off-roading would be driving on the front lawn.
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 07:54 PM
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I don't think its dead at all. However, I am certainly not impressed with the '08 Chrysler minivan offerings. I read a few previews and saw a few pics, and IMO it is still in the Stone Age compared to the Odyssey and Sienna. Now, you might argue they're cheaper than the Ody and Sienna, but if I wanted value, Hyundai offers more convincing products at the same cost of the domestic offerings.

Personally, if i wanted cargo capacity I'd just spring for a hatchback or sports wagon though.
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 09:46 PM
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It's not dead, there's just more choices than ever.

Minivans came at a time when the only other options were trucks, sedans, or station wagons. Now we have a vast array of hatchbacks, tall mini-wagons, CUVs and SUVs and funky ones like the FJ.
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Old Aug 7, 2007 | 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by GSteg
It can seat 8 passengers more comfortably, has more space for cargo, decent power, decent fuel economy, and probably has a better center gravity than the sport-utilities. We only lack off-road capabilities, but the closest thing my mom has ever come close to off-roading would be driving on the front lawn.
Well said, ALL important features of the people mover

The sliding door is so convenient as opposed to the conventional doors too.
Easy access in and out of the minivan is important and less strain on the back when taking the baby seat in and out.
3rd row seats are a joke for most suvs.

These crossovers still cannot beat a "minivan" in all those aspects.

If only toyota brings this here, I'll trade the gx in a heartbeat....as in yesterday

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Old Aug 8, 2007 | 03:13 AM
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The only minivan I would even consider driving is the current Honda Odyssey. Drove one not too long ago and they handle more like a car than a minivan.

Honda does make some cool looking minivans in Japan.
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Old Aug 8, 2007 | 03:44 AM
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If i need some sort of hauler there are only 2 choices, a pickup truck or a minivan.

What is a SUV for anyway? You dont see ppl taking them offroad (yes yes theres always the exceptions), just so soccer moms can look cool??? Course my dad wants a RX
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Old Aug 8, 2007 | 04:52 AM
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The minivan, IMO, never really WAS dead. It DID, to some extent, have somewhat of an automotive stigma attached to it, an unjustified and rather ignorant negative image that was foistered mainly by the automotive press and a rather small class of "sport" enthusiasts that looked down on "family" type machines that did not corner with high-G's or run quick 0-60 times. Minivans, for some families, are perhaps the best vehicle out there for their overall needs, yet many men are afraid to purchase them because of what their "sporting" friends will think.....they are afraid of being called "wimps" or soccer-moms".
Minivans have what is perhaps the best space-efficiency inside of any of the major types of vehicles. Thay is why they are so good for carrying dads, moms, pets, luggage, and, yes, even soccer teams (the term soccer-mom didn't come about for nothing). Many of the shortcomings of the first-generation of minivans have been overcome by the addition of things like double-sliding doors made possible by compter-designed unibodies, built-in entertainment systems for the kiddies on long trips, and better suspensions to control the high-center-of-gravity leaning in turns.
Another thing that, IMO, was wrong in the minivan world is that IMO too many people stuck with the Dodge, Plymouth, and Chrysler minivans too long, especially after better and higher-quality designs came along. True, Chrysler invented the minivan in the fall of 1983 when the first 1984 models came out (I remember them well...I test-drove a Plymouth Voyager in the fall of 1983 and was amazed at the efficiency of the overall design, but it had the usual Chrysler tinniness of construction), but these vehicles were plagued by many of the usual Chrysler quality control problems. Chrysler minivans dominated the U.S. market for years, even after truck-based rivals like the Chevy Astro and Ford Aerostar arrived on the scene in 1986, and the plastic-bodied GM "Dustbuster" minivans and the Ford Windstar a few years later. However, to be honest, in the 1990's, Chrysler was building some VERY unreliable minivans, with major problems especially in the 4-speed Ultradrive automatic, with some vehicles going through three and four transmissions in their lifetimes. Paint quality and early flaking was also a problem in the early 1990's Chrysler minivans, mostly from trouble adapting to new EPA paint processes.
In the meantime, despite their well-publicized mechanical problems, the Caravan, Voyager, and Town and Country continued to dominate the market (roughly 50%), blowing away Japanese competition such as the first Toyota, Nissan, and Mitsubishi designs, which were reliable but poor-driving and inefficient compared to the Chrysler products. Gradually, though, better Japanese designs such as the Toyota Previa, Sienna, and Honda Odyssey/Isuzu Oasis came along that gave the Chrysler vans some REAL competition...though the first Odyssey was too small and the second one, at first, had a GM-supplied power-sliding door mechanism that was troublesome...that has since been replaced by a Honda-built mechanism. Consumer Reports, and much of the automotive press, generally rate the Sienna and Odyssey highest among today's minivans.

Back to the thread topic: Is the minivan dead? GM and Ford, for the most part, have given up on traditional minivans in the U.S. market; Saturn, Buick, Chevy, and Ford, have no plans to replace their current minivans when their term runs out; Chrysler, as always, plugs on with the always-popular Voyager, Caravan, and Town and Country. Though the minivan is clearly not the vehicle for me (I am single and don't usually carry a lot of things) I'm sorry to see the GM and Ford designs go, but on the other hand, Toyota, Honda, and (lately) the Korean Hyundai and Kia minivans simply offer a better-built product.

Last edited by mmarshall; Aug 8, 2007 at 05:23 AM.
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Old Aug 8, 2007 | 06:11 AM
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Looks like a large scion xb
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