Yes, I know. I was just being facetious.....and complementing your performance as a moderator and an auto reviewer.

Off-topic slightly, but my own Porsche Boxster review, BTW, that several people were waiting for, is ready in CAR CHAT.

 

Oh, thanks Now let me go read up your review

 

OK, lets forget the last few pages and just go back to the original questions posted by rjm:

Is this the same car company? Yes, it is. Your experience of having zero issues in 2 yrs as a Lexus owner is exactly what most\all of us want. It's what we dreamed about when we became Lexus owners ourselves.

Why is there a dramatic difference in ownership experience? My expectation was to have a fantastic ownership experience, which holds true today if you have no problems. Service is good, loaners are fine, things go smoothly. If you do have potentially unsolvable issues though, things seem to break down at that point. That breakdown is very visible on the ES model right now for a variety of reasons, not sure about other current Lexus models.

Why can't a company that produces such fine cars as the LS430/460 produce an ES350 that reflects the same quality? Your local Lexus Sales team will tell you they are both quality vehicles and without any problems. The great thing about CL is that real members report the reality of their experiences - which unfortunately can be rather embarassing for Lexus at times. It's not a one way street anymore: you can't just declare your product is the best thing ever and not have it criticised. Is that criticism valid? Reading the posts here at CL lets us all decide for ourselves!

 

More like Dave's biyatch.

 

The Toyota of today is not the Toyota of old. The latter had engineers who worked hundreds of hours beyond what they had to to get things right. The focus was on making the best quality cars. The new Toyota wants to beat GM so bad to become the world's biggest manufacturer. That's taking your eye off the ball.

 

ITS A GOOD PAYING JOB!

I totally 100% disagree. Toyota is not trying to beat GM.
1. GM is just shrinking. They are selling less vehicles
2. People WANT Toyota products

Toyota clearly is not the Toyota of old (hello Starlet ). They have never been better.

 

I agree although right now the Toyota brand is without anything sporty (no Supra, no MR2, no Celica) and some models are old at this point (Sequoia, 4Runner, Highlander), so there's some weakness, but as a high volume manufacturer Toyota is unsurpassed at this point.

 

You've got to be kidding me? All it takes is a look at any one of the recent press releases to see that this isn't the case. For the old Toyota, growth was a natural outcome of a superior product. It was a byproduct, not the goal. That is NOT the new Toyota. Toyota is actively striving to become the #1 manufacturer in the world. Of that, there is zero doubt. That is their primary goal now. They've overtaken Ford and they want to overcome GM.

I've owned Toyota's my entire life so I'm somewhat of a "fanboy". But I'm not blind to what's happening.

 

I think the points Sick brought up in his post, have set the stage for the points rosskoss has made. Toyota has gotten to this point by engineering and building the cars people want to buy, unlike GM, and since being #1 is within reach, they've decided to go for it. I'm sure their shareholders will be pleased. It's an interesting situation. I hope they handle it well.

 

But those cars haven't been without issues. 7MG's had headgasket problems. The early 90's V-6s in the Tacomas had similar headgasket problems. Many of the Toyota automatic gearboxes have had interesting issues over the years, and their manuals have never been paragons of reliability if you mod the engine for more power.

Case in point - my '93 GTS Celica developed a chassis creak in the driver's footwell at about 42k miles (18 months of ownership), and Toyota was not going to do anything about it. I traded the car shortly afterward for a MkIV Supra.

Toyota's reliability success has been primarily because they build extremely conservative engines and over-engineer their chassis. If you've ever pulled apart a Honda, then pulled apart a Toyota, you'll see what I mean instantly.

That said, I remember plenty of people with issues of a similar nature and frequency described by the Camry/ES350 transmission complaints. Not so many that they need a recall, but certainly enough statistical evidence there's a fundamental problem (more than likely with stacked tolerances) in their production methodology. Having been a Toyota owner for 17 years or so, I'm as guilty as anyone of being a fanboi and I'll admit I'll buy a first MY Toyota without hesitation because I've worked on enough of their products to feel very comfortable with their engineering philosophy and their customer service. It doesn't mean their perfect, I've just had better experiences with their products.

AFA growth being a natural byproduct of a superior product, that's complete hooey. Toyota has been focused on becoming #1 in the world for 30 years (or more) and that's been a public statement for a long, long time. If you don't believe that, fine, but Japanese companies are extremely competitive and tightly focused on winning. Thinking anything less is foolish. I would suggest at least one trip to Japan to gain understanding if you disagree. It will completely change your outlook.

 

This shows what I've been saying for years. Though, granted, most of the auto press, auto "enthusiasts," and auto writers DO gravitate toward sportiness, some quite strongly ( perhaps the best examples are Car and Driver / Road and Track magazines ), the real meat of the industry, and where most of the bread-and-butter dollars are made, is in the regular-family type of vehicle, not sportiness. I see this, time and time again, in my own relationships with the people I do auto consulting for and help shop. Most of them, with few exceptions, want practicality, reliability, value for the dollar, and ease of operation more than anything else. For every Solstice, Miata, or Corvette I help someone decide on or buy, there are probably ten Corollas, Camrys, or Minivans.
And there is a reason for this. Many people, particularly as they age, don't want to pound over over bumps, listen to loud exhaust, be shoved in the back while accelerating, or have Go-Kart steering. They would rather have comfort and quietness than slot-car response.

I, personally, take a rather neutral position here. As a true auto enthusiast, I, myself, like vehicles of BOTH classes...I realize that there is a time for sportiness and a time for comfort....but, for a daily driver, I generally prefer the comfort, and feel that sportiness, in general, has been oversold..........as witnesses Toyota's place in the industry today, as bitkahuna pointed out, without a lot of ultra-sport models.

 

Precisely.