HP/L is just simply HP/L. It's mostly for bragging right because it takes engineering and technology to squeeze as much hp out of an engine. It does not relate to fuel econ, power overall or where the power is made at all. Those info can be found by other means.

These new V6's are just simply amazing but I believe V6 in the IS350 currently is the best. I remember my 850 used to make only 300hp with 5.0L V12.

 

i dont think it's a new engine persay but a bigger either stroked or bored out 3.2 (which really wasnt technically 3.2L liters so they cheated). This has been slated for a while as the current 3.2 that are in the T-reg was anemic and they couldnt put that motor into the new Q7 so they had to up it to 3.6L. supposedly the Passat R is supposed to have this 3.6 motor in it as well.

 

So is it going to be a 3.6L FSI engine?

The 3.6L in the Passat makes 280 hp, so the extra 12 hp via direct injection doesn't sound that impressive to me.

 

But typically HP/L is highly tied to how high the RPM on the engine reaches. Advancement of technology is if a high HP/L is achieved at a relatively low RPM.

I can name several automakers who before have achieved over 100HP/L, like Toyota, Honda, or BMW. To achieve it, they either used forced induction, or the engine revved to 8000 RPM and beyond.

I'm not knocking the Audi engine, but it's less impressive when the power is made at a rather high RPM.

The reason the Lexus engine was being compared with BMW and Benz engines of larger displacement was due to the similarities in not just HP, but also in torque, *and* in the RPM that power is achieved.

BMW's 4.8L achieves 360HP at 6300RPM, and an equal amount of torque. Benz's 5.5L V8 achieves 382HP at 6000RPM, and 391 lb-ft of torque at a low RPM range. The Q7's engine achieves peak HP at a higher RPM than any of these. There's also a clear gap between HP and torque. The new engines from BMW, Benz, and Lexus all have HP and torque relatively equal to each other. The Lexus 4.6L V8 won't be revving any higher than the IS350's engine, which makes peak HP at 6400RPM, and peak torque at 4800RPM. Seeing as it's a V8, expect peak torque down low, and seeing as this is the LS, the engine will be extremely refined, and thus will make peak HP at a reasonable RPM.

What I'm trying to say is the Audi engine is slightly more "high rev" than these other engines.

 

It most likely is that engine, with FSI added.

Direct Injection should not be overestimated here. It's not some magical technology that will instantly add 50HP or something like that. Direct Injection by itself does not add a huge amount of power.

If you mean it's unimpressive compared to the LS460's, or IS350's engine, it's because both of those use dual fuel injection, a step above Audi's FSI.

But I do see your point; if the 3.6L V6 is a new engine design (I'm not sure whether it is or not) then it's output is rather dissapointing.

Then again, VW has seldom been seen as a leader in production engines. Racing is another matter though.

 

The smaller the engine, usually, the peak hp will be at a higher rpm. Notice how the MB 5.4L makes peak at the lowest rpm, then the BMW 4.8L, then the Audi 4.2L.

I haven't seen any rpm figures for the Lexus 4.6L.

Also, note that MB and BMW aren't using direct injection in their V8 engines yet. I'm sure that MB will employ DI in the S550 in the near future, and it'll easily make 400+ hp, 400+ torque. The S550 already goes 0-60 in 5.3s though, so it's all just bragging rights.

In any case, these hp wars are getting crazy. Nissan started it with those 3.5L VQs, and everyone is making 300 hp engines now.

 

Well if you look at the current Lexus 4.3L V8, it makes peak HP at a quite low 5600 RPM. And it's smaller in displacement than the Benz, BMW, and 4.6L Lexus engine.

RPM figures haven't been released for the LS460, but it would be foolish to believe the 4.6L V8 would rev relatively high.

BMW already uses direct injection in its V12 engine, as well as the new V10 in the M5. Compared to other V10s and V12s, including Benz engines, BMW's direct injection engines are not *that* impressive.

Likewise, Lexus can also increase the displacement of it's 4.6L V8 to make more power. There are loads of rumours a 5.0L V8 *already* is in development, rumoured for an IS Coupe, and to be used in the LS600h. We will see for sure in New York what gas engine the LS600h will use.

Nissan definitely spurred on the HP wars, although I'm hesistant to say they started it. Don't forget that Lexus offered the 300HP GS400 back in 1998.

 

You neglect to mention that the GS430 makes 300 hp. So it's not surprising that it makes that hp at a lower rpm.

The M5 makes 500 hp from 5.0L liters. At a high rpm, but still pretty impressive if you ask me.

 

everyone is coming out with new L6/V6 engine. By the time this thing hits, BMW new L6 would be released as well.

Everyone will be nearly 300HP or exceeds it by next year. Except Acura/Honda.

 

Come now. I also neglect to mention the Audi engine makes the lowest HP *and* torque out of the new Luxo V8 engines, despite making peak HP at the highest RPM.

The Lexus 4.0/4.3L V8 is an old engine, based on the original 4.0L V8 that debuted in 1989, and it's not too fair to compare it's HP to the new engines like the Audi 4.2L.

I mentioned the Lexus 4.3L simply to make a point about displacement and peak RPM ranges.

Hypothetically, if Lexus pushed the 4.3L V8 to make it's peak HP at 6800 RPM, it would likely be at about 350HP.

Fact is, the Audi revs higher than any other luxo V8, because it would otherwise be making an umimpressive, and uncompetitive amount of power if it made peak HP at a lower RPM. This is despite the use of FSI.

 

Uhh, Acura's RL is rated at 290HP under the new SAE ratings. That's right beside the 292HP Benz and Audi V6s, even though the Euro engines are both using direct injection, while the J35 in the RL is not.

 

Honda has the NSX and RL that's nearly 300hp. Yes, unless other types of 6-cylinder engines are considered. The M3's got 333hp and the 911's and GT3 all got more.

 

Err. I know that the 4.3L is an old engine. You're the one that brought it up, not me.

Notice, I said "usually" when I made the high rpm and displacement relationship comment. Old engines with low hp make peak at low rpm, compared to today's engines. That's with most engines, not just Toyota.

Let me put it another way so that you can understand. Among engines that make similar hp/liter, the smaller displacement engine will usually make peak hp at a higher rpm.

You can make all these hypos about Lexus doing this and that, and hp increasing this way and that. I'm sure they can, but all other manufacturers can as well.

Fact is, the Audi V8 makes impressive power for an engine of its size.

 

The peak HP for the current Lexus 4.3L V8 is no where near the current MB, BMW or Lexus 4.6 due to their larger displacement. For NA engines, torque # typically goes hand in hand with engine size and HP is directly related to torque and engine speed so to squeeze out the equivavent HP, the smaller engine has to rev higher and that doesn't mean that it is inferior.

Remember the S2000 (AP1) engine makes 240hp @9000 RPM... it's music to the ear.

 

Show me a V10 with 5.0 NA (save the gallardo) that makes 500HP and rev to 8200 RPM. As displacement increases the vibration and noise control difficulties increases exponentially, especially for NA engines.

Which MB engine at 5.0 displacement can compare? Please enlighten me? The S550 has a 5.5 L DoHC V8 that produces 382 HP and 391lb-ft @ 2800 RPM. 69.45HP/L 71.09lb-ft/L

The 550i's V8 produces 360HP@6300 RPM and 360lb-ft@3600 RPM. 75HP/L 75LB-FT/L

The M5 V10 produce 100HP/L and 76.4 LB-FT. The only engine in NA form that comes close to it (in fact slightly better ) is the Gallard VAG V10. There is no other 5.0 naturally aspirated V8 or V10 that comes to close to it.

The current Lexus V8 at 4.3 making 300 HP is good but not great. Consider that lexus never re-rated the engine under the new standard. The GS430 is not making 300 HP per new standard (the new 06 GS went on sale before the new standard take place, and the 06 LS did get revised output down to 278HP, or a 12 HP decrease). 67.44HP/L 75.56lb-ft/L. The HP peak is 5600 RPM, and torque peak is @3400 RPM. So in reality compare to the BMW V8, it is on par on the torque but lacks in HP.

In other word, under the new SAE specification. The GS430 is probably at most making 290HP out of its V8. Which is less than a 4.4L V8 on the 545i.

The new LS460 V8 makes 380HP/370lb-ft with direct injection, which is quiet good and impressive. 82HP/L 80.4LB-FT/L. When IS350 was introduced. The torque is only at 277LB-Ft at high of 4800 RPM. In fact none of the torque peak on the new 3.5L DOHC V6 arrives before 4500 RPM. It remain to be seen how flat the torque curve is and peak RPM for the new 4.6 V8. But i wouldn't be surpised to find out that the 4.6V8 has peak torque north of 4500 RPM. Not to mention the peak power will probably come at north of 6000 RPM as well.

The only way that lexus has been able to squeeze more power like BMW has been doing is to increase the rev as well as compression ratio.

BTW, it is much more difficult to squeeze 100HP/L out of a 5.0 V10 than it is to squeeze 100HP/L out of a 4 banger. There are much less issue to deal with such as noise, vibration, and heat dissipation.