Surely only when the gasoline engine isn't running. And that isn't the case with highway driving for example, so how striking is it really?

Because Hollywood and the "in style" world are more about 'feel good' things than doing anything significant.

If driving a hybrid makes you feel like you're saving the world, knock yourself out. I don't think it makes the SLIGHTEST difference. While a few hundred thousand or even millions of hybrids might get out there, we may end up with a BILLION more cars on the road in the next few years as prosperity grows in developing nations. And the world's emissions don't just come from cars. With MASSIVE growth in economic activity in China and India, their need for new emission-emitting power stations and other plants and factories will dwarf anything going on elsewhere.

 

Cuz you sure aren't buying a diesel for low emissions. Can you say carcinogens?

And diesels have good low end torque, but you won't hear of many diesels doing great high speeds. They almost always need turbos to get decent passing power as well.

 

The main reason diesels don't do well on top end is not so much the need for turbos but the low redlines. Compression-ignition engines, turbo or not, for a variety of reasons, simply cannot turn high RPM's as efficiently or as safely as short-stroke, VTEC-equipped gasoline engines. If you gear them tall enough to get a high top speed with low RPM's, at least theoretically on paper, the gearing will make them lose enough power that they will not overcome the increased air resistance.

Current U.S.-spec diesel emissions are actually pretty good in the NO2 and CO areas. It is the area of solid particulates ( better known as soot ) that diesels, while improving, still trail in ( one reason why they cannot be sold new in CA )....but even then they are much better than they used to be. However, the advent of clean low-sulfur diesel fuel here in the U.S. and urea-injection systems which are being perfected will soon open up a whole new world for diesels here.

 

You are simply repeating things you have read in some magazine.

Yes, Hybrids will go electric only at highway as well, although not for a long time. In fact, for most people, hybrids get the most mpg on the highway and not in town. Prius has an miller cycle engine which is 15% more efficient than comparable gasoline engine and together with electric engines and superior aerodynamics, it will get 50-60mpg on the highway all day long, something you cant do with 4cly Camry. Same will be true for 4cly Camry.

I dont care if you are opposed to the hybrids or dont like them. its cool. everyone has their own opinion. but at least get the facts straight :-).

and I dont know what is high speed for diesel - all of them do well above 130mph in medium sedans. Someone needs more than that? Diesel engine needs an turbo? Yes, most definetly. Diesels have pretty large turbos, you cant find non-turbo diesels in europe anymore (well you can in ultra cheap vans and cars).

V8 engines cost a lot more than V6 engine, and even spend more gas! How will you ever save money on V8 I really dont know... hahaha.

 

This is true of Toyota / Lexus-designed hybrids and the Ford Escape ( actually borrowed Toyota technology ). It is NOT true of Honda IMA ( Integrated Motor Assist ) hybrid designs. Honda-type " series " hybrid designs, unlike Toyota " parallel " designs, CANNOT run off of the electric motor directly, either in the city or on the highway.......the electric motor simply assists the gas engine as needed and serves as the starter to start the gas engine up from rest when it shuts off at stops and the driver presses the gas pedal to get moving again.
Toyota hybrid systems, by comparison, can run anywhere on either the gas engine alone, the electric motor alone, or both as needed........and as the drivetrain computers are programmed. The electric motor, while it CAN and does run independent of the gas engine for economy, obviously cannot do so indefintely......it, of course, needs to have its battery pack recharged, so the gas engine cuts back in as needed....and to keep its oil temperature and coolant warm for low emissions.
In both systems, the electric motor, while coasting or braking, serves as a generator to recharge the battery pack, thus the term " regenerative braking ". The gas engine's alternator, of course, can also charge both the gas engine battery and the battery pack for the electric motor.

 

i thought that was what i said

 

I find myself having to explain ALL THE TIME to people who just immediately say the RX400h is a waste of money.... that it and the Prius serve two very different purproses. The Prius is slow as ****, and is meant to get a very high mpg figure to save fuel. The Lexus RX-h however, is providing you with the torque, feel, and acceleration of a V8 SUV with the fuel economy of a 4 or 6 cylinder car. Yea, you may not ever make that up in plain gas savings over the RX330.... but if you compare to the gas you'd save if you got the 400h over the ML500 or X5 4.4i.... anyone would see how much you'd be saving in gas. Anyow, i'm sure i'm just preaching to the choir here.

And oh yea, if I remember reading correctly, Toyota bought and chopped up 4 to 500 jags, bmw's, benzes, and caddy's when they were developing the "F1" project back in the 1980's.

And on a note about GM vehicles, i just got back from Florida today, i had an 05 Chevy Monte Carlo rental car. I have to say, GM has come a long way in 10 years. I'd never even think about buying the car, but the materials and fit and finish were much better than older GM vehicles (with exception of the steering wheel.... still has a very flimsy feel to it). The interior dash design actually wasn't that bad either. Overall, I'd actually say that I think the interior "feels" richer than a lot of the new Nissans sold today. GM still has far to go, but I can definitely see some improvement.

 

yep, it is often confusing to the customers that there are different hybrids. Obviously, it is the same as with any other powertain - there are differences in systems, same as there are numerious different petrol engines which work differently (even more so for diesels).

most people also dont know that during normal driving, your petrol engine is constantly recharging your HSD hybrid battery, preparing it to go into full electric mode when needed. So it is not only when you brake that you recharge the battery.

Prius isnt really slow as ****, sure it is not as fast as my turbo mrs, but most cars are not. Passing acceleration is actually very good, and there are quite few brand new bmw's that would not be able to pass my prius around here :-). 50-80mph is pretty impressive, i am often taken back with the kick in the back. Amusing.

 

This was true for the previous IMA system and also the one still used in the Accord. In the new Civic Hybrid though, the car and be propelled solely by the IMA system electric motor. Here is the quote from Honda about the IMA in the new Civic.

 

You may or may not have a point here, CK. I carefully avoided going into this new 2006 / 2007 Honda system in my last post because, first, I don't really know that much about it ( yet ) , and, second, the descriptions I HAVE read about it do not all agree on whether the system can run on just the electric motor alone. Honda says it can. A couple of magazines that have actually road-tested the car say no, it cannot. From a practical point of view though, as long as the system functions well, gives good mileage and low emissions, and is reliable ( as Hondas usually are ) I don't think it makes a lot of difference.

( BTW, I reviewed a new Civic EX a couple of weeks ago but was not able to test-drive the new Civic Hybrid because of the short supply )

 

it is still an mild hybrid, even though they made improvements. They use few tricks but electric only mode is almost impossible.

It was edmunds that compared the HSD to new Civic and HSD still got 15% mpg more and was 2 sec faster 0-60... So thats where the difference is.

Of course, new Civic is pretty nice car itself.

 

the fastest way for GM to improve is to sell itself to Toyota and let Toyota manage it.

 

Not as much as new Lexus vehicles
Saying that is like saying; 'people continue to buy new Nobles' or new Atom 2s. It means absolutely nothing.

 

Its emissions over time. And if you want to argue that full gas engines have the same emissions over any period of time (say one gas tank) then you're a moron.

My point wasnt about Hollywood being noble or any of that BS. My point was that they arent hard up for cash and dont give a rat's *** if they save gas money or not, because money is nothing to them. Its done for emissions. I'm not saying anyone feels like they're saving the world from the car; I dont care. Saving the world or not is outside the scope of this thread; which you've completely taken it out of.

I don't know where your argument came from. You attacked my point on some completely irrelevant basis; much akin to arguing if a color is blue or cyan. Now I remember why I stopped posting at clublexus. You guys are a joke.

 

Well, just because you and bitkahuna can't agree on the role of hybrids doesn't mean this forum is a joke. People don't always agree with me either. But......show us a better general automotive forum than CAR CHAT, with more informed people, better mods, and a better administrator. Good luck........I haven't seen one yet. In fact, a lot of what I see and read in this forum....especially from 1SICKLEX, RON430, LexArazzo, Rominl, CK6speed, Jet864, bitkahuna, GS3Tek, 2000sc300, flipside909, Incendiary, and others ( including yourself ) beats some of what the auto press itself puts out.....and they are people who get PAID to test cars and write about them.