most GM cars in 7 years = worthless

Not only would they be very cheap blue book wise but they're going to be collecting dust on lots. Funny how once new $50,000 Cadillacs are soon worth less than a $25,000 Toyota Camry of the same year, less than 10 years later.

 

I bet GM is looking at the Lexus, puzzled at the technology they could never match like this guy,

 

they did have a point though, ive even heard ppl on this forum say that the hybrid is not worth the extra dough b/c it will never pay for itself, unless your one of those enviormental types

 

That picture is priceless. I believe that's British comedian Dick Emery who was incredibly funny (don't know if he's still this side of the turf). He would play that priest (reverend as they say there) with false buck teeth but he was always saying inappropriate stuff - very funny.

 

Forgot to say - great article!

I'm sure it's tough when dissecting those competitive vehicles to not dismiss stuff simply because it's NIH (not invented here).

While Toyota may be creating a market with thin benefits and profits (hybrids), the LESSONS they're learning from building them are no doubt invaluable.

If you like skinny tires, weird sounds, funny transmissions, guages that come out of Homer Simpson's nuclear plant, then a Prius is the car for you.

 

Exactly. Everyone does it. How else could a company like Hyundai make such a competitive car like the Sonata?

On the other hand, realize that reverse engineering doesn't tell you as much as those GM workers would like to think. Reverse engineering a Prius won't help you build a Prius; what I mean is that taking apart a competitor's car won't tell you about the competition's production processes, or what sort of assembly methods and techniques they use.

As mentioned by others in the thread, everyone reverse engineers each other's cars, and it's usually for cost reduction. Mercedes reverse engineered a Lexus LS after it first came out, and over a decade later, Mercedes still cannot match Lexus quality. Reverse engineering will not tell you assembly line secrets that Toyota uses in it's Tahara plant.

Also, GM must be kidding themselves if they can just "give a nod" to hybrids and go straight to hydrogen or fuel cell cars. First of all, commercially viable and available fuel cell cars are at least a decade away, if not more so. Furthermore, if you do a bit of research, you will see that the first fuel cell cars on the market will likely be hybrids, because by then hybrid technology will be advanced and cheap enough to make it a no-brainer. Hybrid technology will increase the mileage, and power of a fuel cell vehicle. The beauty of hybrid technology is that it can be combined with any type of powertrains, from diesel, to gas engines, to fuel cells. Even in worse case, if hybrids are not used in the future, the knowledge gained from them about electrical systems will be of great use for future vehicles. I find it funny that GM workers make such comments.

And while GM is busy making bold comments and reverse engineering the competition, competition like Toyota is busy readying its 3rd gen hybrid technology, as well as constantly reducing development times.

 

i agree with what you said, looking at parts doesnt give you the process in which the parts go together. But for some company like GM, they essentially can sit on their laurels and just dissect to see the advancments made by say...Toyota...so when they decide to go hybrid or hydrogen...their development time would be from scratch so-to-speak.

I know that this is a common thing in the industry...heck for all others as well that produce a tangible product. I'm sure Toyota did it immensely prior to launching the Lexus line. But what they did learn was how to do it better and cheaper...and that is where they have their german counterparts scratching their heads.

 

Buying a hybrid isnt JUST about saving money on gas. Do people constantly need reminding of this? The huge difference in emissions output between full gasoline engines and hybrid engines is quite striking.

Think about it: The Lexus RX400h and Toyota Prius are the "IT" cars to have in Hollywood and the rest of the "in style" world. Why? Not because they can save on gas (****, most major actors and actresses make more in a day than the average american does in a year) its because of the low emissions.

 

same goes for diesel engines, you are not buying them for fuel savings, but for power as well. As with RX400h.

Prius is so sucessful because it is the price of Camry, has a lot of space and gets 50mpg. It also looks interesting and has a lot of technology packed in. It is affordable car that anyone can buy instead of Camry.

GM's engineers comparing it to Impala... lol.

It is one thing to research competitors, but to dismiss them like that is clearly an PR. Ford recently said that PR doesnt make you the leader, products do, obviously GM has a way to go.

Prius actually pays off since its resale is crazy. You actually save money when you buy prius over camry, and even corolla.

Yes, it is because of the resale (plus 15 mpg savings), but folks, it is the same for diesels here in Europe. People pay 2k more for an diesel engine, not because they like it better but because once they sell the car 3-4 years from now, they will get 3k more than for petrol version.

 

This has been going on since the motor car was invented. When the original fwd mini came out in the UK in the early 60s, none of the other manufacturers could work out how a new car with such radical new technology could be sold at that price. Ford took a mini and stripped it down in a similar way to the article above and worked out that Austin were losing money on every mini they sold. The mini was a big sales success but it continued to lose money for over 10 years. Ford decided that they would pursue another direction with the rwd Cortina and within 15 years were the biggest manufacturer in Britain.

Mind you they are not anymore...

 

Hmm makes you wonder, if any other car manufacturer is tearing down GM, or Ford products to reverse engineer their cars. I still have fond memories of my then new 89 GrandAm literally falling apart on me, radio stop working, headliner came down, rear view mirror fell off, dashboard separated, and started coming apart, heating/ ac vents broke, body cladding came loose, car would never aligned properly, starter went out, seat adjustment ***** came off, hood latch broke, all in the 4yrs I owned that %$#&@#$! I never bought a new GM car again, but I did have a memory lapse and bought a used chevy S-10 with the V-6, I had it exactly 6 months, and practically gave it away. Sorry for the rant, I got caught up emotionally, did I mentioned the tube of super glue I found in my car after picking it up from the dealer, supposedly fixing my dashboard! Now I did it!!! My suppressed memories came back!!! Must go lay down, relax a little.

 

As far as GM starting to build more Lexus-like vehicles in quality, there is both fact and fiction here. The Lucerne, as you mention, has been the subject of a lot of hype lately. GM chief Bob Lutz himself has announced he is trading his chauffer-drive Cadillac for one. I reviewed all three trim levels of the Lucerne a couple of months ago and I agree with you....I found all three somewhat dissapointing in cheapness and in overall quality, although the top-line V8 was, naturally, somewhat nicer than the others. With one or two exceptions, the trim quality and plastic inside was just as bargain-basement as previous Buicks, and I actually preferred the outgoing Park Avenue's interior overall.
Same with some other new GM interiors I have seen.....the Pontiac G6's for example. GM is purtting chrome circles around the gauges and vents for a little bit of flash, and the climate-control ***** feel a little more precision-made, but in general it is the same old cheapness with a couple pieces of flash.

NOT, so, however, with the new 2007 Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Denali, and Escalade.....they ARE impressive. I spent a lot of time at the recent Washington, DC Auto Show examining these new SUVs. ( A GM camera-crew and a team of Product Specialists, when they found out I was with Club Lexus and did auto write-ups, also asked me to do a formal interview for them with my thoughts, positive and negative, on these and other new GM products ). Here, GM not only talks, but, for the first time in many years, DOES appear to deliver on its promise of better quality......at least in the showroom. These vehicles, inside and out, do appear to have a lot of materials that are almost ( not quite, but close ) Lexus-grade. ( No, they didn't pay me to say this ). I won't go into all the details about these new vehicles and interiors...much has been posted and discussed here on CAR CHAT about them. We won't know the whole vehicle, of course, without a test-drive, which I will do when they become available.....and I will definitely do a formal review on at least one or two of them, including the Tahoe, which is likely to be the largest-seller.

 

and people continue to buy new caddys

 

Yes, but look at the new Caddys. They are not your grandfather's mush-mobile. Today, with few exceptions, they are luxury-sport sedans, and some of them.....the CTS-V, STS-V, and XLR-V, compete with BMWs. Even the senior-citizen DTS ( formerly DeVille) has lower-profile tires and a more responsive chassis than previously. Cadillac, like many other automakers today, is tossing the soft-ride and comfort fans aside in favor of pursuit of the sports-sedan crowd.

 

the new ones prob won't lose as much as fast as the older ones did, they def have some better choices now