Notices
Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: Innova

GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 12:38 PM
  #1  
GFerg's Avatar
GFerg
Thread Starter
Speaks French in Russian
CL Folding 25,000
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 13,397
Likes: 100
From: What is G?
Default GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/gmv...omparison.html


GM vs. Toyota: By the Numbers
by Diane Geng

Dec. 19, 2005 -- General Motors has been the world's No. 1 automaker since 1931. But GM's dominant position is eroding rapidly. Last year, Toyota surpassed Ford Motor Co. to become No. 2 in the global vehicle market. Some analysts predict Toyota will catch up to GM in two to three years. In November 2005, GM announced that over the next three years it plans to cut 30,000 jobs and reduce capacity by 30 percent from 2002 levels. We compare the global auto industry's two titans, with an emphasis on the U.S. and North American markets.

Vehicle Production Started in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
1908

Toyota:
1986


Brands Sold in North America
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, HUMMER, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn

Toyota:
Toyota, Lexus, Scion, Hino


Best-Selling Vehicle in U.S.
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
Chevrolet Silverado
680,768 sold in 2004

Toyota:
Toyota Camry
426,990 sold in 2004


U.S. Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting & Toyota

GM:
4,655,459

Toyota:
2,060,049


U.S. Market Share

Source: First nine months of 2005, Harbour Consulting


GM:

26.8%

Toyota:
13%


Vehicle Production in North America 2004
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
5.2 million

Toyota:
1.44 million


Profitability per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
Loses $2,331 per vehicle

Toyota:
Makes $1,488 per vehicle


Net Income in the First 9 Months of 2005
Source: Harbour Consulting

GM:
$4.15 billion loss from North America operations off-set by profits in Europe and Asia for an overall loss of $3.8 billion

Toyota:
$7.89 billion (¥921.7 billion, converted at 116.81 yen to $1)


Number of Plants in North America
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
77, all unionized. Plans to close 12 facilities by 2008 (see press release).

Toyota:
12, three unionized in Long Beach, Calif., Fremont, Calif., and Tijuana, Mexico.


Average Plant Capacity Utilization
Source: Harbour Report 2005

GM:
85%

Toyota:
107% using overtime workers


Production Time per Vehicle
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003

Toyota:
27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003


North American Workforce
Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005

GM:
White collar: 36,000
Production: 106,000.
Retirees: 460,000

Toyota:
White collar: 17,000
Production: 21,000
Retirees: 1,600


Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker
Source: Center for Automotive Research

GM:
$31.35/hour
NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status.

Toyota:
$27/hour
NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.


Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004
Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc.

GM:
$1,525

Toyota:

$201


Average Labor Cost per U.S. Hourly Worker
Source: GM & Toyota

GM:
$73.73

Toyota:
$48


Worldwide Sales in 2004
Source: Harbour Consulting

GM:

8.9 million

Toyota:
7.7 million


Global Market Share
Source: Automotive News annual ranking of the world's automakers by sales and production, figures for 2004

GM:
13.2%, down from 14.6% in 2002

Toyota:
10.9% up from 10.6% in 2002


Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005
Source: 2005 Harbour Report

GM:
9 million
Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries

Toyota:
8.4 million
Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries
I believe that the gap between Toyota and GM might be smaller now.
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 01:09 PM
  #2  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,885
Likes: 476
From: Lovely OC
Default

wow this is very cool stuff, i love these stats. you see so much funny and useful stuff in there.

i don't think we need to talk about global, i think we will see toyota overtaking gm very shortly so it's not funny

but if you talk about just the market share inside the US, toyota is still not that "strong". however if you look at teh cost per car, wages, health care (***), margin, etc.... toyota is way ahead of gm it's not even funny. simply the fact that toyota is making money by building cars whereas gm is losing money on every car they make, that's a very big statement already

and if that's not interesting enough, look at the "retired workers" stats between the two. it gives you a very good hint on why gm is going. very sad, but we know it will come
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 01:53 PM
  #3  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Originally Posted by rominl
however if you look at teh cost per car, wages, health care (***), margin, etc.... toyota is way ahead of gm it's not even funny. simply the fact that toyota is making money by building cars whereas gm is losing money on every car they make, that's a very big statement already

and if that's not interesting enough, look at the "retired workers" stats between the two. it gives you a very good hint on why gm is going. very sad, but we know it will come
I partially agree....but there are two sides to this. Automakers need to control costs, true, but workers also deserve health care, benefits, and a decent retirement too. Of course some of the responsibility for this falls on the workers themselves, not the company,.....you can't expect others to do everything for you on a silver platter, but at the same time the company has to pay you enough to make a decent living and save a little besides for your OWN retirement. So, considering that GM is losing money while Toyota makes huge profits, the question comes up......and perhaps this is better suited for the DEBATE thread than CAR CHAT.....is GM giving their workers too much, or is Toyota not giving their workers enough? A case can be made for both sides here.

In fact, one of the big reasons for Saturn's extraordinary success in the 1990's was the superb treatment that the company gave not only customers but its own employees as well. For example, they were one of the first companies to ensure that every employee in their Spring Hill, TN plant, if possible, worked in air-conditioned comfort........a big bonus in hot Tennessee summers.

Last edited by mmarshall; Dec 21, 2005 at 02:01 PM.
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 02:38 PM
  #4  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,885
Likes: 476
From: Lovely OC
Default

i don't see toyota not giving "enough" benefits, otherwise we would have heard it by now. but for sure gm is giving too much, especially with their old relationships with the WU that completely destroy their furture imho. i mean, you can't 'feed" someone until they die just because they work the past 20 or 30 yrs in your company. just how i see it
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 02:47 PM
  #5  
mmarshall's Avatar
mmarshall
Lexus Fanatic
Community Builder
Community Influencer
Liked
Loved
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,521
Likes: 261
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Default

Yes...like I said, Henry, there's two sides of it . You have a point and have made a good explanation for the way you see it.
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 03:13 PM
  #6  
PhilipMSPT's Avatar
PhilipMSPT
Cycle Savant
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,528
Likes: 9
From: In rehab...
Default

Originally Posted by magneto112
I believe that the gap between Toyota and GM might be smaller now.
GM needs to command control over two things: quality and employee incentives. It's tough that after years of increasing incentives for employees by unions (such as health care, retirement benefits, etc.), it's adding up and causing financial problems for GM. Not that unions are wrong, but it adds up in the end.

GM tried to control costs by increasing prices (which is o.k.) and decreasing quality (which is bad). Instead of keeping loyal customers with quality cars, most people are switching and buying Japanese cars because people know they'll keep that car for several years, and it will cost less.

Their next move will definately turn heads. GM needs to rely on foreign markets and labor, or significantly decrease American labor numbers.
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 04:41 PM
  #7  
Trexus's Avatar
Trexus
CL Community Team
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,335
Likes: 61
From: California
Default

Originally Posted by mmarshall
I .....is GM giving their workers too much, or is Toyota not giving their workers enough? A case can be made for both sides here.
There are labor laws here in America and I'm sure Toyota must be in compliance. GM is probably giving way too much to the executives and not listening or designing better cars. Yes, you are correct a case can be made for both sides but if you go to Yahoo finance. You can see as of 12/21/05 GM's stock is at $19.05 and Toyota's is at $109.92. This is financial proof that Toyota is doing very well.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GM

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=TMhttp://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=TM
Reply
Old Dec 21, 2005 | 05:07 PM
  #8  
Gojirra99's Avatar
Gojirra99
CL Community Team
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 30,281
Likes: 360
From: Canada
Default

Very good info, Thanks
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 12:14 PM
  #9  
Stage3's Avatar
Stage3
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (3)
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,379
Likes: 0
From: Tampa, FL
Default

I just dont see how it is possible that GM can stay afloat by losing as much as they have per car and for the last 9 months... I know im not an economics major, but shoot, if you lose THAT much money off each car, and you multiply that by 4 million cars....

I wonder if the books are being cooked somehow... because, dang, thats a lot of MONEY!
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 12:36 PM
  #10  
Trexus's Avatar
Trexus
CL Community Team
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,335
Likes: 61
From: California
Default

Check this out. Since GM is a public company we can see how much money they lose each quarter. In the first quarter of this year GM lost $1.1 Billion, in the second quarter they lost $1.0 Billion and in the third quarter GM lost a whopping $1.6 Billion. That's a total of $3.7 Billion and the year isn't over yet. I'm projecting that GM will lose a total of $4.96 Billion, plus or minus in this year alone. That's crazy! Obviously GM isn't doing sometime right financially.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=GM
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 12:50 PM
  #11  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,885
Likes: 476
From: Lovely OC
Default

Originally Posted by Stage3
I just dont see how it is possible that GM can stay afloat by losing as much as they have per car and for the last 9 months... I know im not an economics major, but shoot, if you lose THAT much money off each car, and you multiply that by 4 million cars....

I wonder if the books are being cooked somehow... because, dang, thats a lot of MONEY!
ah i almost forgot to talk about this joke. i was in a restaurant waiting for seats and overheard the people talking beside me on this topic. a guy said GM Is losing over 1k (actually 2k) every car they sell. suddenly this gal said the funniest thing i have heard, "umm.... so why don't they stop selling cars or sell less? see, that way they lose less money right?"

gosh, everything went into silenec...
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 01:03 PM
  #12  
Trexus's Avatar
Trexus
CL Community Team
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,335
Likes: 61
From: California
Default

Originally Posted by rominl
ah i almost forgot to talk about this joke. i was in a restaurant waiting for seats and overheard the people talking beside me on this topic. a guy said GM Is losing over 1k (actually 2k) every car they sell. suddenly this gal said the funniest thing i have heard, "umm.... so why don't they stop selling cars or sell less? see, that way they lose less money right?"

gosh, everything went into silenec...
My question for you is; is she blonde?
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 01:22 PM
  #13  
rominl's Avatar
rominl
exclusive matchup
20 Year Member
Liked
Community Favorite
Top Answer: 1
iTrader: (4)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 81,885
Likes: 476
From: Lovely OC
Default

hahahhahaa, come on let's not get into discrimination now
Reply
Old Dec 22, 2005 | 01:33 PM
  #14  
Trexus's Avatar
Trexus
CL Community Team
Photogenic
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,335
Likes: 61
From: California
Default

I was just kidding, I wanted to keep the joke going.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
EyeKutr
Car Chat
7
Aug 3, 2009 09:14 AM
GFerg
Car Chat
7
Jul 6, 2007 12:32 PM
Gojirra99
Car Chat
2
May 8, 2007 03:33 PM
Gojirra99
Car Chat
5
Feb 21, 2005 08:16 PM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:00 AM.