The 05 RL is the very first Legend/RL to be based on the shared mid sized global platform. The Accord also comes from the mid sized global platform. Up until 2005, the Legend/RL always had its own specific chassis. In the future, every single Honda/Acura will start from either the compact gobal platform, mid sized global platform, or SUV/Truck global platform. In itself the global platform is nothing until it is modded for each specific car. The 05 RL uses a KB1 chassis based off the mid sized global platform. It is the only car currently using the KB1 chassis.

I think 100% of owners are using the SH-AWD system so some degree. Everytime you accelerate from a dead stop you are using the system. Everytime you take a corner at moderate speed you are using the system. Let's put it this way, if the criticism of the RL is that it has a transverse mounted engine in a FWD configuration, with a front heavy bias, it should drive that way. The fact that the RL behaves more like a RWD or more neutral proves that SH-AWD is working everyday. Just look at the SH-AWD meter and you can see that even taking the RL on a simple test drive you can witness it working to some degree. The fact that it transfers torque to the rear wheels upon acceleration proves that it works for 100% of owners everyday. The fact that it speeds up the outside rear wheel around corners proves that it works for 100% of owners everyday. The system can vary anwhere from 0%-100%. I will agree, the SH-AWD system will not be used by 99% of owners at 100% all the time, but it will be used by all everyday to some degree. If it were not being used, the RL would drive like your typical FWD car which facts proves it does not.

 

I think it is more a matter of pricing than Accord-based looks. True, this is not the best-looking car on the road, but it is certainly no Pontiac Aztek...it has reasonably good looks.

The main problem is that, at almost $50,000 base, the car is clearly overpriced, in spite of the sophistication of the SH-AWD system. The V6 has V8 horsepower (300) at high RPM's but not V8 low-end torque (260) or refinement. For the equipment it has, the car is priced about $5000-$7000 too high. Its closest competitor, the new Lexus GS300 AWD, generally runs in the mid-40's....as it should.

 

Good points and info. But don't forget to mention that most of the time, the car is being driven its 70% FWD and 30% RWD, so its still heavily FWD biased under normal driving. And it would really take a genuis to feel the difference Audi's quattro has ALWAYS been 50.50 they feel that is the optimum way. Only the new RS4, being the first Audi with RWD bias. The Lexus GS and Infiniti M35 AWD are both RWD biased if I am correct?

And I do find the SH-AWD system to be incredible and kudos to Honda engineers. Imagine this system in a 911 type sports car? It would be NO JOKE!

I agree and let me clarify I do not think the RL is ugly at all, it is not.

 

This is correct, the RL is front wheel drive bias the majority of the time, but let's think about it. The majority of the time it doesn't really matter. Generally, the only time when a FWD car might show its weakness, or traits I should say under normal street driving is during acceleration and cornering. When you are cruising at speed it really doesn't matter if 1 centered wheel is powering the car. We could say 70% of our driving is under this condition, so being FWD 70% all the time is not an issue. The diffrerence between the GS and other RWD biased AWD systems is that it is already RWD biases when you want the traits of RWD the most, and it is still RWD biased at all other conditions when it doesn't matter one way or the other. The SH-AWD is RWD biases when you want it the most, but FWD under all the other conditions when it doesn't matter anyway. So, over all it really doesn't matter unless you simply like to compare paper facts. This is sort of like holding those V8 cars that cut out 4 cylinders under cruising speeds to give it 4 cylinder fuel ecconomy, than bump back up to 8 cylinders when you need it and call that engine inferior to an all time V8. The main point at the end of the day is if the system works when you need it.

At this point, since I am an AWD fan, the only single fault I can find with the SH-AWD system so far is that it only transfers up tp 70% of torque to the rear (100% side to side though if needed I believe). I personally would like to have seen full 100% rear possible. At this point since it is software controlled it is not mechanical, but simply Honda feeling 70% is enough. Maybe someone will come out with an aftermarket SH-AWD controller like they do with everything else an allow it to be user customized.

 

 

Street price has really dropped on the RL. It can be had for about $43,000 to $44,000 in many areas. You'd be hard pressed to find a GS300 AWD w/ Navi and ML at that price.

Of course, fact is that less equipped cheaper versions of the GS300 exist, whereas that the RL comes only fully loaded.

The GS300 AWD can vary power 30/70 to 70/30. The M35x can vary power 50/50 to 0/100.

 

That is a very good point, it really makes the RL a more attractive buy

 

It would be impossible for Acura to sell the RL for $5,000-$7,000 less than it's current price and equipped the same way. I wouldn't exactly say that the RL is overpriced because a similarly equipped GS300X MSRP's at $3,000 more than the RL. An M35X on the other hand similarly equipped MSRP's at about the same as the RL but also has the laser cruise, climate seats, lane departure system and the pre-crash seat belts. It's your decision though if you want to sit in that Nissan interior. I believe the GS only offers the climate seats where the RL doesn't. And like JRock said, the RL goes for well below MSRP now. I've heard in the RL forums of sales as low as $44,500-$45,000 in SOME places but I've never seen $43,000, especially in "many" places.

 

im pretty sure this is correct. I was suprised when somebody contradicted siklex's statement. Honda (USDM) has...

the "Compact Platform" (Civic, RSX)
"Global Midsize" (Accord, TSX, TL, RL?)
"Light Truck?" (Ody, Ridgeline)

then of course, the S2K and NSX are on their own. I'm not exactly sure where the MDX is, but again, Siclex is correct in saying that the RL is on (at least a variant of..) the Global Midsized Platform.

As for the current state of the Acura RL/ Honda Legend...

A while back I read that Acura chiefs were asking dealers whether building a V8 would yield a profit in the end. The V8 build by Honda would be shared by the MDX, RL, Honda Ridgeline, a higher Acura sedan (I like to refer to it as the Acura "GL"/ JDM Honda Monarch ), and quite possibly an NSX replacement. I read that it would be shared by "4-5" cars, so this lineup would make plenty of sense to me. I also read that the dealer rep wanted to wait until RL sales showed their true colors to make a decision. Ironically, about 3-4 months after I read this, Mugen came out with the Mugen M1, which featured a rediculously monsterous 4.0L V8 stuffed easily into a Honda Legend. I believe the output was 600 HP. So, that settles the "V8" issue. Also, I understand completely that some of these "rumors" seem kinda out-of-this-world, but this is what I read on an Acura forum.

As for the design, it really looks bland. now, it would be great for a large Lexus LS fighter, but this is a class which includes the Infiniti M, Lexus GS, BMW 5, and Caddy STS, some pretty sporty midsized luxo sedans. The drivetrain lacks only 1 fundamental key, and that's the lack of torque. 280 Lb./Ft. of Torque might have made things slightly better. SH-AWD is simply amazing and I'm sure Honda will continue to improve it as needed. But as of right now, the RL is just too boring when compared to all the others. The interior's look, feel, and finish is out of this world, but the exterior needs some more aggression in it.

That concludes my long, boring post.

 

Very simple. The MDX is a redone Honda Pilot with less interior room, more plushness, and slicker styling.............in much in the same manner as the Lexus RX330 is a redone Toyota Highlander with more plushness, slicker styling, and a smaller interior. The drivetrains and chassis components are virtually identical. Both vehicles are based on mid-size sedan platforms....the MDX / Pilot on the Accord, the Highlander / RX330 on the Camry.

 

This is correct, but it just depends on how one looks at it. It is correct that Honda has a compact global platform, a mid sized global platform, and a light truck/SUV global platform. The thing is, any of these global platforms are nothing in iteslf until it is configured into the correct application it is being used for. It is not an Accord, RL, or MDX platform until the base global platorm is configured for those specific cars. So in a way, yes, nearly every Honda/Acura comes from one of the 3 global platforms nowdays, but it is not quite correct to say the RL is a stretched Accord platform. What it does share from the Accord is its roots from the mid sized global platform. You can look at it this way. If the mid sized global platform is A, than it is configured in such a way to become the Accord platform B. The RL takes that same global platform A and it is configured to becaomse the RL chassis C. What it does not do is go from A to B (Accord) to finially reach C.

The reason why many even some media say he mid sized global platform is the Accord platform is because the Accord was the very first Honda to use the newly developed (At the time) global platform. Since at this time in 98 i believe the Accord was the first and only car using the global platform, it stuck as being the Accord platform.

The MDX uses the same light truck global platform as Pilot and Oddesey.

 

OK then, let's say 5K instead of 7K. But it still gets back to what I said earlier.....the car was overpriced at 50K and if, as you say, they are actually going out the door for 44.5-45K, that means then that dealerships are selling them for what they are really worth in the marketplace.....at least $5000 less than the sticker price.....and just about what GS300 AWD's run. And...the fact that dealerships can sell them at 45K and apparantly still make a profit ( we're assuming that they are not dumping them at less than cost ) proves even more that it was overpriced to start. You said in your answer that Acura could not afford to sell it at 5-7K below list, but that is exactly what is happening. Apparantly they CAN afford it.

 

So if your saying that a comparably equipped GS300x goes for $45,000 at the dealer now when it has an MSRP of almost $53,000, wouldn't that be saying that the GS is even more overpriced than the RL you believe to be? Furthermore, wouldn't that imply that it's street worth is $8,000 less than MSRP? Let me also rephrase what I meant about Acura not being able to afford to sell the car at $5,000 less than it's current MSRP... What I meant by that was that Acura wouldnt be able to afford to put an MSRP on the car that is $5,000 less than it's current MSRP. If the RL had an MSRP of $45,000, then that would mean dealer invoice on the car would be roughly in the high $30k-low $40k range. Acura would not build the RL and sell it to dealers at a price which would cause the company to LOSE money with each sale. The RL wasn't built to be a showcase car like the Insight, S2000 and NSX. The RL was built to bring profits (we'll see if that happens). So yes, dealers can afford to sell the RL at $5,000+ discounts, but Acura wouldn't be able to set an MSRP of less than $45,000 along with it's corresponding invoice and still make money.

P.S.

I didn't mean RL's are going for
$44,500-$45,000 OUT THE DOOR.
Those are the prices I have seen before
the taxes and such. $45,000 out the door
would mean a selling price of roughly
$41,000 before taxes, which is not the case.

 

Consumers don't feel the GS is overpriced, its meeting/beating sales expectations.. And the GS and Lexus has stated the car is aimed at the Germans like it always has. So in comparison to the Germans, the GS is 5k-8k cheaper base price to base price!
The more expensive a car, the bigger the profits, in essence they are ALL overpriced However, consumers buy items they feel are WORTH it. Thus the Germans have been able to charge more for they're products because consumers feel they are worth it (and sales for them have continued to increase for the most part).

Acura has not proven it can climb past the 40k mark successfully. The wonderful NSX, a PERFECT sports car, has sold dismal after its 2nd year in production. The RL has always struggled. Consumers do not feel that the expensive cars are WORTH more than the competition, thus the RL being discounted even after only 8 months on the market. Sales will ONLY decrease after its first year of production. In comarison, after 3 years on the market, the TL is still selling like hotcakes. The TSX is selling in droves as well. Both cars are 27-35k cars.

The Rl must cost a lot to build, as the SH-AWD system has to be expensive to produce and its currently only in one vehicle so costs cannot be cut since its not shared.

And yes, looking at Acura forums, the cars are being sold as low as 43k, with the majority now around 45k. Dealers were getting the list 50k asking price its first couple months and its downhill from there. The RL will probably not meet its 20k a year sales target even being all new.

Its not to say the RL is a bad car, its not at all, its possibly the best Acura sedan ever. It is selling over 1,000 units a month which is nothing to sneeze at (just ask the 1st gen M45 or Q45 that question). Consumer though, clearly feel the car is not worth the 50k asking price, thus the big discounts.

 

Thats not true. Have you forgotten about the Legend? Even when the last RL came out, it sold well during it's first years. As the car aged and Acura did nothing to update it, it was only obvious that consumers were going to opt for different cars. Also, to be fair, if your going to mention that the RL is being discounted after 8 months, shouldn't we also mention that a comparably equipped GS is selling for $8,000 below sticker after being released only a couple months ago? You can't just assume the sales for the RL will ONLY decrease from now on. Sales went up a fair amount in June compared to May. Additionally, the TSX was selling fairly slowly when it first came out. Now, it's one of the hottest cars in it's class and it's ONLY been selling more and more. As for the NSX, it wasn't designed to sell like a 911 or Vette. If anything, the low volume of NSX's sold is a good thing for Acura considering that they lost money with every single one they sold. We should keep the NSX out of this since it's a car different from the RL in every single possible way.