Self-Driving Vehicles
Lexus Champion
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,592
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From: TN
Will have to wait and see what the police find out. Sometimes people are stupid and just don't look when they walk across the street, no way to avoid them. Almost had that happen to me, drunk crazy homeless guy walks out into traffic between two cars, the guy in front of me didn't even hit the brakes, didn't know he walked out in front of him until he was in his windshield. Bad scene, dude went flying like 10-20 feet, finally got his bearings and got up, started acting hostile to the police and EMT's, clearly concussed, broken leg, refused to get in the ambulance.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,448
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From: Japan
The real question is if a human driver was behind the wheel, was that pedestrian in worse shape than being struck by an autonomous driving car. If the autonomous car was to cause less damage than I believe that is still a better scenario, as I highly doubt that we will ever see ZERO accidents from autonomous cars as a car can only stop in so many feet etc, you know physics and all that.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,988
Likes: 81
From: Southeastern PA
From the article, it sounds like she was Jaywalking (or Jay-riding a bicycle) way outside of a marked crosswalk. I'm no defender of self-driving vehicles by any means, but it also needs to be pointed out that jaywalking laws exist for a reason....and a cop can ticket you for it.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,988
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From: Southeastern PA
My question would be, how many other pedestrians were hit or killed by driver driven vehicles on that same day? A google search showed me that number is about 6,000 per year, or 16 a day.
Those stories didn't make the news, this did because it was a self driving car. That makes my point about how certainly any fatality or accident involving a self driving vehicle is in the news lol
Those stories didn't make the news, this did because it was a self driving car. That makes my point about how certainly any fatality or accident involving a self driving vehicle is in the news lol
Now, if the computer became self aware, and tried to flee the scene autonomously, THAT would be a story...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,208
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Or, the system malfunctioned and did not let the driver intervene. There's a lot we don't know yet, and probably won't know until the investigation is complete. Until the investigation is done, a lot of it will be just speculation.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,309
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From: Canada
But we need more detail than that. A properly programed self-driving car (and any person paying half-attention) would see a person outside a crosswalk. But if that jaywalker darted out from behind a car parked parallel at the curb, a person, and even a computer, may not be able to stop the car in time. Jaywalking, in and of itself, is irrelevant--you can still be charged with vehicular homicide if you hit a jaywalker, depending on the circumstances.
These self driving cars likely costs hundreds of thousands to produce, and Uber does not want them damaged in an accident, and they do not want bad publicity associated with these accidents. But most of all, they don't want the legal liability that comes as the result of those accidents. They certainly would not trust operation of these experimental cars to someone who is incompetent.
Last edited by Och; Mar 19, 2018 at 07:43 PM.
The latest pre-collision systems now offered, including Toyota Safety Sense P (TSS-P) have pedestrian detection. If even mass-market vehicles now offer pre-collision systems with pedestrian detection, why would an autonomous (no driver needed) not have pedestrian detection?
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 20,206
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I would not make such assumption, in fact I think its borderline ridiculous. I am sure those self driving cars are equipped with multiple cameras, including cameras that monitor driver's activity. I'm also sure its in the drivers job description that he is to pay attention to the road and ready to take over control at all times.
These self driving cars likely costs hundreds of thousands to produce, and Uber does not want them damaged in an accident, and they do not want bad publicity associated with these accidents. But most of all, they don't want the legal liability that comes as the result of those accidents. They certainly would not trust operation of these experimental cars to someone who is incompetent.
These self driving cars likely costs hundreds of thousands to produce, and Uber does not want them damaged in an accident, and they do not want bad publicity associated with these accidents. But most of all, they don't want the legal liability that comes as the result of those accidents. They certainly would not trust operation of these experimental cars to someone who is incompetent.
And I have no problems imaging something failed on the car, despite how many billions it cost the company and how many millions will litigation cost.
I dont know why is that so hard to imagine, we have countless recalls on every vehicle these days and your computers and phones will break inside warranty period, let alone outside, despite manufacturers spending billions to make them as good as possible.
Reason that many manufacturers moved to AZ for testing is that it has much less requirements.... for instance California requires them to disclose how many times driver has intervened during testing for instance we can see here:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1FK3AU
The latest disengagement report showed that Waymo vehicles, in tests conducted from December 2016 through November 2017, on average logged 5,596 miles without Waymo’s safety drivers disengaging the system and retaking the wheel. Its next closest contender was Cruise, owned by General Motors Co (GM.N), at 1,214 miles on average between disengagements.
Of course, we dont know where they drove these vehicles and what was the purpose of testing, so it could be that Waymo was doing simpler things than Nissan on Mercedes.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,988
Likes: 81
From: Southeastern PA
The latest pre-collision systems now offered, including Toyota Safety Sense P (TSS-P) have pedestrian detection. If even mass-market vehicles now offer pre-collision systems with pedestrian detection, why would an autonomous (no driver needed) not have pedestrian detection?
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 8,560
Likes: 389
From: PA
Have you ever ridden with someone who decided to wreck their vehicle, to avoid a squirrel (this isn't a joke)? How about a cat? A dog? A baby? A toddler? A person? The autonomous vehicle should be able to demonstrate what logic would be applied, in all of these scenarios. It is total nonsense, to see a XC90 on its side, and because it was determined it was not Uber's fault, to then continue cruising around until there is a fatality. Too much not my fault these days.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,448
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From: Japan
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,300
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From: RightHere
Pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags, a woman abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic and was struck by a self-driving Uber operating in autonomous mode.
“The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” said Sylvia Moir, police chief in Tempe, Ariz., the location for the first pedestrian fatality involving a self-driving car. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” Traveling at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone on Sunday night, the Uber self-driving car made no attempt to brake, according to the Police Department’s preliminary investigation.
The self-driving Volvo SUV was outfitted with at least two video cameras, one facing forward toward the street, the other focused inside the car on the driver, Moir said in an interview.
From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos. The incident happened within perhaps 100 yards of a crosswalk, Moir said. “It is dangerous to cross roadways in the evening hour when well-illuminated, managed crosswalks are available,” she said.
“I suspect preliminarily it appears that the Uber would likely not be at fault in this accident, either,” Moir said. However, if Uber is found responsible, that could open a legal quagmire. “I won’t rule out the potential to file charges against the (backup driver) in the Uber vehicle,” Moir said.
“The driver said it was like a flash, the person walked out in front of them,” said Sylvia Moir, police chief in Tempe, Ariz., the location for the first pedestrian fatality involving a self-driving car. “His first alert to the collision was the sound of the collision.” Traveling at 38 mph in a 35 mph zone on Sunday night, the Uber self-driving car made no attempt to brake, according to the Police Department’s preliminary investigation.
The self-driving Volvo SUV was outfitted with at least two video cameras, one facing forward toward the street, the other focused inside the car on the driver, Moir said in an interview.
From viewing the videos, “it’s very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway,” Moir said. The police have not released the videos. The incident happened within perhaps 100 yards of a crosswalk, Moir said. “It is dangerous to cross roadways in the evening hour when well-illuminated, managed crosswalks are available,” she said.
“I suspect preliminarily it appears that the Uber would likely not be at fault in this accident, either,” Moir said. However, if Uber is found responsible, that could open a legal quagmire. “I won’t rule out the potential to file charges against the (backup driver) in the Uber vehicle,” Moir said.