Acura - What's wrong??
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Lexus Test Driver
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Acura - What's wrong??
To me, Acura will never be able to compete w/ Lexus, in terms of overall prestige. The Acura name just doesn't stir up the same emotions like the Lexus name. I think they need to re-vamp, again, the entire line-up, save the NSX.
1) Get rid of that nasty RSX. Isn't a Civic SI enough?
2) TSX - no 4 banging or FWD'ing on this class of car.
3) TL is on the right track. Nice design, but still FWD.
4) RL; what a waste of money. $40K+, 210 hp V6? I don't think so!?! Move up in category to compete w/ LS, add V8 and rear or AWD.
5) MDX - nice SUV, like my 330 better
6) NSX - The king; just a little bit overpriced for being underpowered and not being re-designed in over a decade.
7) Create a performance sedan to compete w/ GS.
8) Torque #'s need to be somewhere near or above the HP #'s, not under.
Acura should also add more features to distinguish it "above" Honda; such as power tilt/telescoping steering wheels (RL has it already), Lexus-style keys, or even the MB-style keys. Emblems on rims should be chrome, not black stickers. Small things like that make a difference. I think dropping the engine size (three point two TL) from the model name was a good idea.
I used to be a Honda guy! Had a '95 Accord EX and '97 Prelude SH. Loved 'em both, but saw the Lexus light.
What do you guys/gals think??
1) Get rid of that nasty RSX. Isn't a Civic SI enough?
2) TSX - no 4 banging or FWD'ing on this class of car.
3) TL is on the right track. Nice design, but still FWD.
4) RL; what a waste of money. $40K+, 210 hp V6? I don't think so!?! Move up in category to compete w/ LS, add V8 and rear or AWD.
5) MDX - nice SUV, like my 330 better
6) NSX - The king; just a little bit overpriced for being underpowered and not being re-designed in over a decade.
7) Create a performance sedan to compete w/ GS.
8) Torque #'s need to be somewhere near or above the HP #'s, not under.
Acura should also add more features to distinguish it "above" Honda; such as power tilt/telescoping steering wheels (RL has it already), Lexus-style keys, or even the MB-style keys. Emblems on rims should be chrome, not black stickers. Small things like that make a difference. I think dropping the engine size (three point two TL) from the model name was a good idea.
I used to be a Honda guy! Had a '95 Accord EX and '97 Prelude SH. Loved 'em both, but saw the Lexus light.
What do you guys/gals think??
Lexus Test Driver
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From: Texas
Re: Acura - What's wrong??
Originally posted by msilverIS
1) Get rid of that nasty RSX. Isn't a Civic SI enough?
Emblems on rims should be chrome, not black stickers.
1) Get rid of that nasty RSX. Isn't a Civic SI enough?
Emblems on rims should be chrome, not black stickers.
lol...i have chrome center caps too...
but anyway...
Yea i agree, acura does not have the prestige to compete with lexus, but just think about who does. Even infiniti, which many of their models meet your requirements, can still not compete with lexus. Why? I don't really know. But i think its really all about marketing and producing these great products without pause. I still know people who refer to my mom's q45 as a lexus, just because they never heard of infiniti before. Lexus has worked years to get where it is. Give them some time, infiniti is well on its way, and acura with the new TL looks like its starting its way too.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Arkansas
I'm not sure H/A is trying to catch up to Lexus or even Infiniti. They've had ample opportunity to do do, esp since they actually proved there was a market for a Japanese luxury car (remember that the Legend was first on the market; every car salesman I talked to back then said NO ONE would buy a $20k Honda) several years before Lexus or Infiniti existed except as marketing plans for their respective parent companies.
They seem to be satisfied with a niche a step below the big boys, sort of an intermediate step between the more pedestrian marques and the big guns from Japan and Germany. They've stayed FWD and they continue to make hp with rpm as opposed to cubic inches (which translates to a not particularly torquey motor). I agree with msilverIS; I had 4 Hondas starting with a Civic Si back in 1981 and they were all great cars. And when I looked at a Legend coupe when car shopping in 1991, it looked great!! But then I got into the driver's seat of a 1992 SC400 and there was no going back!!
They seem to be satisfied with a niche a step below the big boys, sort of an intermediate step between the more pedestrian marques and the big guns from Japan and Germany. They've stayed FWD and they continue to make hp with rpm as opposed to cubic inches (which translates to a not particularly torquey motor). I agree with msilverIS; I had 4 Hondas starting with a Civic Si back in 1981 and they were all great cars. And when I looked at a Legend coupe when car shopping in 1991, it looked great!! But then I got into the driver's seat of a 1992 SC400 and there was no going back!!
Re: Re: Acura - What's wrong??
Originally posted by TruenoHatchiRok
but just think about who does. Even infiniti, which many of their models meet your requirements, can still not compete with lexus. Why? I don't really know. But i think its really all about marketing and producing these great products without pause.
but just think about who does. Even infiniti, which many of their models meet your requirements, can still not compete with lexus. Why? I don't really know. But i think its really all about marketing and producing these great products without pause.
Shawn
Pole Position
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From: Washington
I say let Acura stay where they are. If they stay FWD, small engines, low hp motors it just leaves more room for Lexus with less competition. With less competition it'll only help Lexus do better. I don't think Acura has anything in their line up thats good competition to Lexus except for the MDX=>RX330. AWD above 18 mph for the MDX would be nice though. The TL and ES are competitors I guess but the TL is the flagship while the ES is entry level.
James
James
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From: Florida
Originally posted by jet864
If they stay FWD, small engines, low hp motors it just leaves more room for Lexus with less competition
If they stay FWD, small engines, low hp motors it just leaves more room for Lexus with less competition
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
Acura V8
The next Acura RL will likely have a V8 and rear-drive to better compete with Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes, but it will be more of a straight luxury car than the performance sedan most of you guys want. Today's RL is basically a Japanese Buick....tomorrow's will be a Japanese Cadillac.
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Lexus Champion
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From: CA
Infiniti is not in the same category with Lexus because they are not going after the same demographics (and neither is Acura). Sure it's the luxury division, but they do cut corners in order to price cars within a certain range to meet these goals (look at the interior of the G35)...whereas Lexus will continue to use the best available parts and worry about pricing after the fact. Infiniti is catching up, but it will be a while before they (or Acura) even come close to being on the same level as Lexus.
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I think it wise for Honda to remain where they are and they have done well serving that particular market segment. VW is letting it hang out there with the Phaeton and the SUV release. If Honda enjoys a challenge, it would be interesting to see them develop a long wheelbase RWD to head up the competition.
Who knows, maybe in 10 years it could be a whole new luxo market.
Who knows, maybe in 10 years it could be a whole new luxo market.
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The next Acura RL will likely have a V8 and rear-drive to better compete with Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes, but it will be more of a straight luxury car than the performance sedan most of you guys want
Honda instead is investing in building planes and not a V-8.
Last edited by LexFather; Jan 13, 2004 at 02:18 PM.
Lexus Champion
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From: IL
Re: Acura - What's wrong??
So to compete with Lexus, they have to make RWD cars with a V8 - that's it right?
To me, Acura cars are more sporty than Lexus cars - more driver tuned. On that note then, to me, the RSX and TSX are nice additions to the marque.
Continuing the theme, the TL is a lot more sporty than the ES and the MDX has always had a bit more of a harsh ride (sporty?) than the old RX. But on that point, I don't think the MDX and RX really compete in the same segment - the RX is for baby boomers and the MDX is more for families. I can tell you that my RX300 sure is a tight fit with two kids and all their stuff and I wouldn't buy another one without a 3rd row seat.
As for the RL - I'm not sure if this is true, but rumor has it they had a new one ready to go a year or two ago. When the LS430 came out, they were blown away and realized that their FWD 6 Cyl would not compete and they pulled the plug on the new design. The new one is now due next year I think and should be radically different.
Anyway, like I said, this is just my take. Acura is a division of Honda that produces some of the sweetest engine/trans combos out there and they sort of have their niche that is just a bit different than Lexus/Infiniti.
To me, Acura cars are more sporty than Lexus cars - more driver tuned. On that note then, to me, the RSX and TSX are nice additions to the marque.
Continuing the theme, the TL is a lot more sporty than the ES and the MDX has always had a bit more of a harsh ride (sporty?) than the old RX. But on that point, I don't think the MDX and RX really compete in the same segment - the RX is for baby boomers and the MDX is more for families. I can tell you that my RX300 sure is a tight fit with two kids and all their stuff and I wouldn't buy another one without a 3rd row seat.
As for the RL - I'm not sure if this is true, but rumor has it they had a new one ready to go a year or two ago. When the LS430 came out, they were blown away and realized that their FWD 6 Cyl would not compete and they pulled the plug on the new design. The new one is now due next year I think and should be radically different.
Anyway, like I said, this is just my take. Acura is a division of Honda that produces some of the sweetest engine/trans combos out there and they sort of have their niche that is just a bit different than Lexus/Infiniti.
Racer
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From: wisconsin
Re: Acura - What's wrong??
Originally posted by msilverIS
TL is on the right track. Nice design, but still FWD.
TL is on the right track. Nice design, but still FWD.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: CA
Acura is sporty, but so is Lexus (IS & GS), and Infiniti (G35, M45...even the FX)...it really comes down to marketing and demographics...who are they trying to sell to. We all agree that Lexus is more luxurious then the other two (and if you don't agree go to the dealer and sit in each of the models...it will paint a clear picture), but the (IS/GS) and G35 all compete head-to-head with acura in terms of sporty. I think Acura just markets to an overall younger crowd then the other two.
On the SUV (if you can call them that) side, the MDX is a little larger then the RX, but it is not stiffer then my SilverSport RX. Also the MDX competes head-to-head with the RX and cost the same (depending on options it can cost more).
Overall, Honda/Acura does make great cars, just not luxury cars to the tune of Lexus...same goes for Infiniti (but I believe they are closer then Acura in terms of luxury on their higher-end models). All these cars have their pros & cons, but we all know that Lexus has the lead...we just wish it had a much bigger lead overall (bigger engines, tuner/sport packages, AWD, etc...).
On the SUV (if you can call them that) side, the MDX is a little larger then the RX, but it is not stiffer then my SilverSport RX. Also the MDX competes head-to-head with the RX and cost the same (depending on options it can cost more).
Overall, Honda/Acura does make great cars, just not luxury cars to the tune of Lexus...same goes for Infiniti (but I believe they are closer then Acura in terms of luxury on their higher-end models). All these cars have their pros & cons, but we all know that Lexus has the lead...we just wish it had a much bigger lead overall (bigger engines, tuner/sport packages, AWD, etc...).
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As for the RL - I'm not sure if this is true, but rumor has it they had a new one ready to go a year or two ago. When the LS430 came out, they were blown away and realized that their FWD 6 Cyl would not compete and they pulled the plug on the new design. The new one is now due next year I think and should be radically different
Here is one of the problems with being a "luxury" car company called Acura. Not only do they have 2 Accords in their line-up (TSX, Euro Accord, TL, American Accord) in Canada, they sell an Acura Civic called the Acura 1.6 EL (yes 1.6). There is nothing luxurious about this at all. Luxury = excess and prestige and glamour, not value or cheap.
Notice Lexus does not sell a car less than 30k, and the REFUSED to sell an I-4 car as their research (which is 100% correct) told them people equate 4 cylinders with cheap and saving gas, not luxury. That is why they stuffed the 2JZ in the IS 300 when selling here and in some European markets instead of bringing us a 25k IS 200.