The Bronco Sport is taller...so? If like you said 5 inches in legnth doesn't mean they don't compete certainly height doesn't mean they don't compete.

And they are the same length which is what impacts maneuverability.

$40-50k is also no longer an "inflated price", thats an average new car price.

 

Vehicle-length is only one factor that determines manuverability and/or how tight a space it can fit in. The turning-radius, vehicle-width, maximum-angle that the front wheels can be turned, and whether the side mirrors are folded or not also are factors.

I have to disagree, at least to this extent....40-50K is a lot for a B-segment crossover, even with the Lexus nameplate. The Trax, for example, a well-respected product, can be had for literally half that price-region......and some lower-trim versions of other B-segment crossovers as well. Even a Buick Encore GX, which is more upscale than the mainstream brands, can be had in the high 20s to mid-30s, although Avenir versions are high-30s, and not that far off from the Lexus.UX.

 

Yes, that's correct. Among B and C-segment crossovers, height varies quite a bit, from the lower-slung Buick Envista and Lexus UX to the quite-tall Bronco Sport. In general, though, all of them are at least a couple inches taller than their equivalent-size sedans and coupes.

 

These vehicles have very similar footprints and maneuverability is very similar.

The average new car transaction in the US is $40k, thats a fact. A Lexus is a luxury product, and having their least expensive model start at the industrywide average makes perfect sense. Of course the Lexus UX is considerably more expensive than mainstream branded vehicles, makes perfect sense it would be nearly twice the price of a Trax.

Thats like knocking a Lexus ES for being much more expensive than a Hyundai Sonata...makes no sense.

 

The point I'm making, though, is that, even though it is clearly more upscale, the average ES does not cost twice what an average Sonata does. The very small UX is arguably overpriced in comparison to even some of its upscale rivals. Also, add that to the fact that this is not the 1990s anymore, when Hyundai made junk....today's Sonatas are much better products in comparison to an ES than they were 30 years ago. And ....(although this is not necessarily fact, but my strong opinion) today's ES models are not as well-done as they were 20-30 years ago either.

 

GM should move the Buick encore and Chevrolet trailblazer to the USA

and Corolla Cross is made in the USA 🇺🇸

 

A Sonata is also not an entry level mainstream vehicle like a Trax is. But in any event look up the prices, An ES is about 65% more expensive than a Sonata. UX is about 72% more, not a huge spread.

UX is also a much better vehicle than a Trax, a bigger gap than exists between a Sonata and an ES so it makes sense that the price spread is more. UX is also a hybrid base, Trax is a 3cyl etc

 

Hard to argue against the fact that a 135 hp 3 cylinder is the very definition of an entry level vehicle

 

It's also hard to argue against the fact that despite a small engine, it is well-respected...and even made Car and Driver's Ten Best List.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...hevrolet-trax/

 

First, you mean the Encore GX, not the Encore......they are two completely different products. Second, I wouldn't mind it being built with American Union labor.......but, at least, the plant in Korea is unionized, and the country is an ally of ours. Buick doesn't use a Chinese plant for American-market versions of the Encore GX, like they do for the Envision.

 

Did you just compare a Buick to a Lexus? That's like comparing a Timex to a Rolex.

 

good thread. about ford’s “mistake”, i see it this way. the ecosport and the escape were both horrible, lol. if you make horrible products your only angle to sell them will be price, and you’ll make no money on them. i think this was ford’s situation. yes discontinuing them has left holes in the line-up, but selling bad products for little to no profit just hurts your reputation and is basically pointless.

mmarshall - i don’t agree gm made a ‘mistake’ re-using the blazer name either. look at ford using the mustang name for their ‘unusual’ quite big mach-e electric crossover thingy. look at toyota using the corolla name for yet another cuv. re-using old names has benefits of name recognition and less legal headache with trademarks wherever it’s sold, etc.

and names vs. letters and numbers… doesn’t mean a whole lot these days imo. old people drive a camry (name). young people drive a model Y.

ford did a great thing bringing back the bronco name with the full size bronco, but i think the escape-based bronco sport is a pretty weak offering, although it’s done pretty well.

speaking of branding, i’m amazed at the strength of jeep’s brand. the wrangler is a pretty awful car to be in (cramped, rough-riding, horrible interior, lol). and now they dropped the plugin hybrid version! in hawaii wranglers are EVERYWHERE and the 4xe (phev) is very popular. i bet the dealers aren’t happy with jeep! i’m guessing stellantis lost money on phev’s though, dropping the pacifica phev also.

anyway, this is a bit rambling so i’ll end it… but good thread mmarshall.

 

As you like to say, "Apples and Oranges." Being well respected and a good car worthy of praise is not mutually exclusive with affordable quality transportation. The Civic makes C&D 10Best also. Same could be said about the Civic back in the 80s and 90s.

Kudos for Chevy for finally making a car that's a class leader, and not just mediocre.

 

I would hardly call this a booming segment, let alone say there's a "sheer number" of them being sold.

For majority of automakers, this segment is a 5-digit annual sales volume except for Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan and almost Toyota. Now Chevrolet did sell 200k+ Trax which is very impressive, and I personally like this current generation Trax. However, I'm not sure if I'd classify it as a subcompact segment as it's 106" wheelbase puts it right in line with most compact crossovers. The subcompact Trailblazer on the other hand sold around 101k units and the larger compact Equinox did about 274k units excluding the EV. Honda had an impressive showing with 148k HRVs sold but on the other hand they delivered 403k CRVs and 238k Civics. Nissan sold about 103k Kicks vs 152k Sentras and 217k Rogues.

Other brands 2025 US sales:
Hyundai-
29k Venues, 74k Konas, while they sold 148k Elantras and 234k Tucsons!

Kia-
31k Niros, 56k Seltos, while they sold 140k K4/Fortes and 182k Sportages

Toyota-
CHR discontinued but 99k Corolla Crosses, compared to 248k regular Corollas and 479k Rav4s

Ford-
139k Escapes and 134k Bronco Sports

IMO Ford does not need a subcompact crossover right now. Their biggest issue is they're losing significant market share by reducing their product lineup.

We've already seen the discontinuation of the Edge (though the midsize segment is an iffy one.. the larger Explorer always outsold it) and discontinuation of compact and midsize sedans with the Focus and Fusion. Now with the Escape being discontinued.. we just have the Bronco Sport. IDK what I would've done if I was Ford but I definitely wouldn't have got rid of the Escape, let alone made it so soft and car-like in the current generation which led to it's sales decline.

 

Yes, the Ecosport felt and drove like exactly what it was......a small cramped Third-World Buzz-mobile, mostly for people who had little money or credit. But the Escape, IMHO, was a reasonably nice C-segment crossover...I certainly didn't see it as "horrible"...except maybe for the El-Cheapo interior in the base model.

Well, I don't entirely disagree there...a four-door crossover Mustang, particularly with an electric motor, does border on ludicrous. If you remember, I had a low opinion of it in general when I reviewed it.....the Chevy Bolt EUV, a small battery-electric, was, at the time, IMO, a significantly better product inside and out, for basically half the Mach-E Mustang's price. And, to pull the Bolt's doors open from the outside, you didn't have to grab onto an uncomfortable, rigid, welded-on piece of steel.



Actually, if you look at the two of them, the four-door Bronco and Bronco Sport are not much different in external size. The two-door Bronco, of course, is significantly shorter .

The Wrangler is a classic cult-machine. The same can be said for Subaru's Crosstrek, Outback, Forester, which are marketed as being actual ways of life, and not just transportation-vehicles. The difference is that Subies can generally be depended on not to break down every time it's raining...the same often cannot be said for Wranglers, as you note

Thanks. I felt it was worthy of discussion. And there have been some very good responses. And I like the fact that commenters, so far, have also kept it polite.....no personal barbs.