.
Ford backing away from EV commitment.
good write-up in wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
Did the same thing with the Volt and now the Bolt.
As far as Jim Farley, he has the vision and I think his intentions are good, but I don't think he has the power to convince Ford investors that long term they are going to lose money and there will eventually be light at the end of the tunnel. It just doesn't work that way when it comes to giant corporate conglomerates like Ford and GM.
It's not that a big corporation can't make a good electric car, they most definitely can, the Lightning is an amazing example, it's just that they waited until the 1th hour after seeing Tesla's Model 3 and Y not only becoming super popular, but highly profitable.
problem is, ford is probably losing $30k per truck!
Thread Starter
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,226
Likes: 222
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
ford has 177k employees. gm has 163k employees, and tesla has 100k.
while ford and gm may have more models and even more unit sales, they're not doing power storage products, and a ton of software.
because of the uaw, and the massive cost of pensions, healthcare for employees and retirees, ford and gm are financially trapped and also cannot innovate in automation and reducing staff needs the way tesla and other non-uaw companies can. ford's probably in worse shape than gm because they didn't restructure in the financial collapse as gm filed bankruptcy to jettison mountains of debt. even if ford and gm could innovate and reduce staffing needs they'd likely have to keep on paying the uaw workers to do nothing or pay a fortune to negotiate them out of the companies.
) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera. 
now he's got a jeep phev.
GM says union labor deals will increase costs by $9.3 billion
... GM’s expected vehicle cost increase includes $500 per vehicle in 2024. Last month crosstown rival Ford estimated it would see additional costs of between $850 and $900 per vehicle assembled.
here's some productive uaw workers
Last edited by bitkahuna; Aug 22, 2024 at 05:13 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 1,514
From: San Diego, CA
i know someone who had a bmw and went to a prius because it was trendy (guess what state he was living in ) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera.
now he's got a jeep phev.
) AND i think he got some incentive from his employer. i think he suffered for about a year before he couldn't stand it anymore and got a porsche panamera. now he's got a jeep phev.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
ClubLexus Stories
Celebrating Lexus & Toyota from Around the Globe
Top 10 Lexus & Toyotas to Drive Before You Die!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Lexus/Toyotas With The LEAST 5-Year Depreciation
Joe Kucinski
Lexus LC500 Convertible Auction: A Preview of Rising Values?
Brett Foote
GX 550 vs TX 550: Best 3-Row Luxury Lexus Family Hauler
Michael S. Palmer
9 Best Lexus Models You Can Buy for Half Price (And 1 You Shouldn't!)
Joe Kucinski
2026 Lexus NX Buyer's Guide: Models, Features, Prices & More!
Brett Foote
Top 10 Reasons to Buy a Lexus TX 550h+ (& 3 Reasons to AVOID!)
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Lexus & Toyota Models of the 1990s RANKED!
Joe Kucinski
10 Great Toyotas That Could Have Been Lexus Models
Joe Kucinski
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Shipping first to simply "own" your competitor is a horrible way to do business. Farley should have read Tesla's master plan that has been on their website for 18 years
Ship a low volume "pipe cleaner" vehicle designed from the ground up as an EV no slapping a battery pack into an existing chassis. Prove out the tech, allow the supply chain to mature greatly reduces losses due to low volume. Then scale up.
Hubris bit Farley in the *bleep*
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 1,514
From: San Diego, CA
So hang on a minute. Tesla will be losing thousands per Cybertruck at the minute, just like with every new product.
these things don’t design and build themselves.
Ford breaks out the losses because they report separate financials for three separate divisions. These losses reflect restructuring costs, the development of new factories and more. And those losses carry forward and reduce future taxable income.
if Tesla did the same they would report losses on every truck sold.
let’s not distort reality here.
these things don’t design and build themselves.
Ford breaks out the losses because they report separate financials for three separate divisions. These losses reflect restructuring costs, the development of new factories and more. And those losses carry forward and reduce future taxable income.
if Tesla did the same they would report losses on every truck sold.
let’s not distort reality here.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 25,917
Likes: 4,274
From: Alberta
Cybertruck will turn a profit likely by the end of the year and guess why. Because Tesla went through the pain of scaling up, optimizing, vertically integrating and about 10,000 other necessary steps.
Model Y never lost money.
Model Y never lost money.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 19,487
Likes: 3,672
From: California
Both Ford and Tesla each have their advantages and disadvantages. Tesla has been building EV's from the ground up at scale and has mastered everything from the supply chain to software and has the ability to bring costs under control quickly while scaling up manufacturing. Ford has the advantage of building electrifying one of the most popular work trucks that people love for over 100 years, they just have to figure out how to cut costs, build at scale and make a profit on it. One of the ways I think they could do it is break away their electrification division and spin it into a new company, but easier said than done, not sure if investors and the board would go along with that
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Aug 22, 2024 at 09:03 AM.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 1,514
From: San Diego, CA
I highly doubt it on the CT, particularly at current volumes, and, respectfully, that could never have happened with the Y.
Lead Lap
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 1,514
From: San Diego, CA
So what may have been in play was HOV access. There was a time that Prius got HOV access here, and back when they did it was absolutely a benefit worth having.