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I have a 1994 fridge in my garage from when the house was redone, still works perfectly and I'm actually temped to run a water line to it so I can have ice outside.
The king is still my 1993 AC unit. This is year 31 and last year I gave it a full cleaning and new coil tray plus run caps as a treat.
No wonder your electric bill is enormous.
Originally Posted by AJT123
I do think HVACs are better as long as you go no-frills and avoid the fancy Eco crap. You want one fan speed only, non zoned system. We have two brand new old school style Tranes outside that I feel like will last 40 years. House is an icebox.
'Fancy eco crap' lol. So any units 20+ years old may be using Freon. Have you seen the price of that lately if you have a leak?
My last 'old school Trane' (2004) single speed outdoor unit died after about 3 years. Thankfully warranty fixed.
i replaced all mine last year (Trane again) and my electricity bill dropped 50-100 a month. And the house is way more comfortable.
'Fancy eco crap' lol. So any units 20+ years old may be using Freon. Have you seen the price of that lately if you have a leak?
My last 'old school Trane' (2004) single speed outdoor unit died after about 3 years. Thankfully warranty fixed.
i replaced all mine last year (Trane again) and my electricity bill dropped 50-100 a month. And the house is way more comfortable.
Yes, fancy eco crap. I know lots of people with all these fancy "efficient, state of the art" HVACs and they hate them.
I said I want what y'all (the a/c installers) have in your houses, boom-- Trane XR for the win. I also see these ones same model as mine at commercial buildings so there's more proof they're the beasts they are.
No frills, tried and true, works well, like a 38. That's what I want out of my HVAC.
I really don't care about my power bill but it did go down a little, I think. IDK, IDC.
I updated/upgraded our furnace and AC 6 years ago and they're both working fine. No issues, no repairs and our electric and gas bills have dropped significantly. It can be done.
Yes, fancy eco crap. I know lots of people with all these fancy "efficient, state of the art" HVACs and they hate them.
Funny because I have over 1,000 real estate clients, 400 of which own properties we manage actively on an ongoing basis and I have never heard one person hate their modern, sophisticated HVAC system. I literally have never heard one. There is no reason not to like a modern high SEER rated HVAC system, they heat and cool better than older systems, they are more efficient, quieter, safer...nothing not to like. I have also never heard one person who replaced their old system with a new system and didn't think the new system was better. Not a single time.
If you know people who have new modern systems they are unhappy with, its because they were sold the wrong system for their house or something like that.
Funny because I have over 1,000 real estate clients, 400 of which own properties we manage actively on an ongoing basis and I have never heard one person hate their modern, sophisticated HVAC system. I literally have never heard one. There is no reason not to like a modern high SEER rated HVAC system, they heat and cool better than older systems, they are more efficient, quieter, safer...nothing not to like. I have also never heard one person who replaced their old system with a new system and didn't think the new system was better. Not a single time.
If you know people who have new modern systems they are unhappy with, its because they were sold the wrong system for their house or something like that.
You just like old color.
Nothing fancier is going to cool this house down any faster, that I can guarantee. Mine is SEER rated and modern, and our bill has gone down—I just don’t care.
Trane has units that have like 99 speeds, zoning, and are sold on being efficient and saving energy, hard pass. Like I said the HVAC employees told me off the record the new fancy stuff is junk. I want a workhorse no frills. I have two of these beasts brand new:
Nothing fancier is going to cool this house down any faster, that I can guarantee. Mine is SEER rated and modern, and our bill has gone down—I just don’t care.
Trane has units that have like 99 speeds, zoning, and are sold on being efficient and saving energy, hard pass. Like I said the HVAC employees told me off the record the new fancy stuff is junk. I want a workhorse no frills. I have two of these beasts brand new:
Funny again because I give lots and lots of business to HVAC companies and know several HVAC techs well, my cousin is an HVAC tech and my neighbor owns an HVAC company. They all say the exact opposite of what you are saying lol. A "workhorse with no frills" works in a certain type of house and not in other types of houses. If you have a house with two zones and good well designed ducts then a system with no frills likely works great. AC is mostly about evacuating hot air, not adding cold air, Also, units that are oversized for a property actually don't work as well as properly sized systems. Also note the word "efficiency" is used in the description of your unit twice. A 16 seer system is very efficient, and you paid for efficiency that you didn't have to have.
You're misunderstanding what "efficiency" in regards to HVAC means, its not about saving money neccessarily its about putting cooling and heating power to effective use. More efficient systems cost less to run AND heat and cool better. I have a Bryant Evolution system with multiple zones and its amazing. The concept of a system like that is to be more efficient, but the efficiency is not necessarily about saving money its about taking a big house like this that only has one zone (when it should have two zones) and making it work with one physical zone. Efficiency means that cooling power is being put to its best use, not being wasted. One no frills system in my house would not cool the house, and installing a second zone is not feasible because of how the house would have to be torn apart to redo the ducting. I know this because I see my neighbors with the same houses and window units in their upstairs bedrooms lol. In order to keep the house as cool as my multi-zone fancy system does I would need window units or mini-splits upstairs and it would cost WAY more to run and not work as well.
I don't understand the aversion to efficiency and the celebration of spending money unnecessarily. Bringing it back to cars, you say you don't care what fuel costs all the time...well I would love to pay less for fuel. I'm not going to not buy cars I want because of fuel mileage, but I don't look at the huge tally at the gas pump and say "oh yeah!"
i have 2 speed compressors and variable speed air handlers. not only is it incredibly efficient, but it's also silent, because it runs more often but at lower speeds. it's wonderful.
also, AJT, that 16 SEER trane xr unit is solid, but i don't like how it has the open top, lets leaves and crap fall in.
My only complaint with my unit is it's power hungry so I can't run it too cold. I would love a new one but I wouldn't see much gain since I could then just set everything colder and barely net any monthly savings.
I don't have noise issues or anything like that currently, I'm waiting for mine to break or something new that is so dramatically better that it's not a 20 year break even.
I think I know what AJT is getting at and I don’t disagree, I have a Carrier Infinity unit and it has all the bells and whistles but with more bells and whistles, like cars, they tend to have more issues. My units is relatively new and needed a new compressor right out of warranty and also a new thermostat recently.
My wife’s cousin is an HVAC tech for Johnson Controls for years and he would never buy one of the fancy Carrier or Trane units, he would just get one of the basic ugly units that has the exact same components inside that the fancy units have without the pretty shell and save a fair amount of money especially because parts are more readily available when they break and are cheaper. He also said the same thing about getting the right sized unit for your house, you can’t just get the largest one like I wanted because it will cycle off and on too much.
I also forgot my neighbor who’s daughter is best friends with my daughter runs the Sila hvac business in DC/MD area and last I talked to him about this stuff he felt the same way.
I don't understand the aversion to efficiency and the celebration of spending money unnecessarily. Bringing it back to cars, you say you don't care what fuel costs all the time...well I would love to pay less for fuel. I'm not going to not buy cars I want because of fuel mileage, but I don't look at the huge tally at the gas pump and say "oh yeah!"
Because all this efficiency crap doesn't work. My dishwasher dries terribly, and doesn't wash that great either bc of the low water usage. It wasn't cheap. Remember when we were younger and plates would burn your fingers off out of the dishwasher?? Our washer and dryer are just crap... You have to hit every button like you're in a spaceship just to get the extra rinse and presoak and deep clean, etc. etc. and it still does a crappy job.
I'd love to pay less for everything. And I'm not spending any money unnecessarily, my cars and truck need gas.
Also, if you have a 4000sq foot house you should have an upstairs and downstairs unit. That surprises me you don't. Our house is 2200 and we have two.
I think I know what AJT is getting at and I don’t disagree, I have a Carrier Infinity unit and it has all the bells and whistles but with more bells and whistles, like cars, they tend to have more issues. My units is relatively new and needed a new compressor right out of warranty and also a new thermostat recently.
My wife’s cousin is an HVAC tech for Johnson Controls for years and he would never buy one of the fancy Carrier or Trane units, he would just get one of the basic ugly units that has the exact same components inside that the fancy units have without the pretty shell and save a fair amount of money especially because parts are more readily available when they break and are cheaper. He also said the same thing about getting the right sized unit for your house, you can’t just get the largest one like I wanted because it will cycle off and on too much.
I also forgot my neighbor who’s daughter is best friends with my daughter runs the Sila hvac business in DC/MD area and last I talked to him about this stuff he felt the same way.
Of course more complexity brings more potential issues like everything else. Its all what benefits the property its being installed in. That complexity is necessary to cool my house, if you have a house where it isn't necessary them it's wasted.
But no you need the right size for your house, its not a "bigger is better" thing.
Originally Posted by AJT123
Because all this efficiency crap doesn't work. My dishwasher dries terribly, and doesn't wash that great either bc of the low water usage. It wasn't cheap. Remember when we were younger and plates would burn your fingers off out of the dishwasher?? Our washer and dryer are just crap... You have to hit every button like you're in a spaceship just to get the extra rinse and presoak and deep clean, etc. etc. and it still does a crappy job.
I'd love to pay less for everything. And I'm not spending any money unnecessarily, my cars and truck need gas.
Except that it absolutely does work. All of my appliances are new and Energy Star rated and work great. Bosch dishwasher works great (will still burn your fingers), my LG washer and dryer work great. Bryant Evolution multi-zoned HVAC system at this point is 17 years old but it still works great. You just have to do more research and buy better stuff.
Also, if you have a 4000sq foot house you should have an upstairs and downstairs unit. That surprises me you don't. Our house is 2200 and we have two.
Yeah, it should...but it doesn't and I didn't build it lol. Systems like the one I have are designed for applications like mine. With that system I don't need 2 zones, if you have 2 zones you don't need this system so yeah two basic systems serve you best.
