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Oh boy, AWD and a B58 type engine......I can't possibly see this going wrong.
On the upside more people will blow them up due to abuse since unlike the hemi a turbo engine will not tolerate it. At least power potential will be massive, the base engine will likely be Hellcat level and the AWD system will finally allow it to launch
Isn't the B58 known for being stout? I see alot of comparisons of it to a 2JZ.
Very strong but give it to the average mopar owner and it will suffer lol!
HAHA! Yup, it feels like everytime somebody is riding my *** on the freeway, I look in my mirror, and its a Dodge, either a Ram truck, Challenger or Charger.
Isn't the B58 known for being stout? I see alot of comparisons of it to a 2JZ.
It is, but it's also the third generation and benefits from nearly 20 years worth of continuous development, some of it in partnership with Toyota. The 1st gen N54 was rife with problems at only a rated 300-335hp, despite being based on the proven N53 design. This is a first-generation engine from Dodge/Chrysler--not exactly a paragon of reliability--who hasn't made a straight six of any flavor since discontinuing the Slant-6 (which dates back to 1959) almost a quarter-century ago, and hasn't made a turbo 6-cylinder of any layout for just as long.
This is a first-generation engine from Dodge/Chrysler--not exactly a paragon of reliability--who hasn't made a straight six of any flavor since discontinuing the Slant-6 (which dates back to 1959) almost a quarter-century ago, and hasn't made a turbo 6-cylinder of any layout for just as long.
The 3.7L Slant-Six (a smaller version was also built for several years) was famous for its durability. It was the engine I learned to drive on in the late 60s (in Plymouth Valiants), and which, along with the in-line 4.1L Chevy Stovebolt Six in the Checker Marathons, powered most of the country's taxicabs...vehicles which had to have durable engines to make money. One reason for the Slant Six durabliity was its being built to military standards and having seven main bearings.
The 3.7L Slant-Six (a smaller version was also built for several years) was famous for its durability. It was the engine I learned to drive on in the late 60s (in Plymouth Valiants), and which, along with the in-line 4.1L Chevy Stovebolt Six in the Checker Marathons, powered most of the country's taxicabs...vehicles which had to have durable engines to make money. One reason for the Slant Six durabliity was its being built to military standards and having seven main bearings.
Don't disagree with that, but the Stellantis of today is not the Chrysler of 1959 when it was introduced, nor even the Chrysler of 1987 when they put a Slant Six into a Dodge Ram for the last time. So I perhaps should have specified that the CURRENT Dodge/Chrysler is not exactly a paragon of reliability.
Of course that engine was not turbocharged, and as you noted above, had nowhere near the output of these newer engine. Most were 145hp or less, and I believe the hottest variant they ever made was 180hp. So it's not like anything from this ~65 year old engine carries forward to the 500hp twin-turbo Hurricane. That was my point. They haven't made a new I6 in an extremely long time, and never a turbocharged version. So there will likely be pretty extreme teething issues.
The engine will have been in the Wagoneer for over a year by the time this Charger hits the road, so let’s hope early teething issues are caught quickly.
The engine will have been in the Wagoneer for over a year by the time this Charger hits the road, so let’s hope early teething issues are caught quickly.
I saw a new Grand Wagoneer yesterday.
Probably doesn't have this new I-6 but I have to say I was very impressed.
It is, but it's also the third generation and benefits from nearly 20 years worth of continuous development, some of it in partnership with Toyota. The 1st gen N54 was rife with problems at only a rated 300-335hp, despite being based on the proven N53 design. This is a first-generation engine from Dodge/Chrysler--not exactly a paragon of reliability--who hasn't made a straight six of any flavor since discontinuing the Slant-6 (which dates back to 1959) almost a quarter-century ago, and hasn't made a turbo 6-cylinder of any layout for just as long.
N54 was an amazing engine and it was way over engineered. It made well over 300hp lol
The main issue was the fuel pump and issues with injectors.
These could be tuned to make massive power but the supporting components fail.
The N55 was not as robust as N54 as it was Single Turbo. This was very reliable but couldn’t make as much power as N54.
The B58 came in various states of tune. The most updated one generates 382hp and is the best one so far. Its proven to be reliable and can make enormous power. The B58 in our X3 now has mild hybrid - it’s extremely fast.
The best inline 6 engines are the S55 and S58 which are on the M cars. The S55 on the F8x cars has proven to be probably the most reliable M engine ever. People tune these things like crazy and they get tracked. The S55 makes incredible power.
The S58 is on the current M3 and is even more robust motor that continues to build power at higher RPMs where the previous S55 would die down.
I have personally owned cars with all these engines except for the new S58.
BMW’s whole brand is built on Inline 6 motors.
Dodge should stick with Hemi V8s and add mild hybrid like everyone else is doing.
N54 was an amazing engine and it was way over engineered. It made well over 300hp lol
The main issue was the fuel pump and issues with injectors.
These could be tuned to make massive power but the supporting components fail.
The N55 was not as robust as N54 as it was Single Turbo. This was very reliable but couldn’t make as much power as N54.
The B58 came in various states of tune. The most updated one generates 382hp and is the best one so far. Its proven to be reliable and can make enormous power. The B58 in our X3 now has mild hybrid - it’s extremely fast.
The best inline 6 engines are the S55 and S58 which are on the M cars. The S55 on the F8x cars has proven to be probably the most reliable M engine ever. People tune these things like crazy and they get tracked. The S55 makes incredible power.
The S58 is on the current M3 and is even more robust motor that continues to build power at higher RPMs where the previous S55 would die down.
I have personally owned cars with all these engines except for the new S58.
BMW’s whole brand is built on Inline 6 motors.
Dodge should stick with Hemi V8s and add mild hybrid like everyone else is doing.
They've had a Hemi V8 + mild hybrid system for years. It's not going to help them meet their goals in the future. The Hurricane engine took a very long time to develop and I'm looking forward to its use. Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram may not be known for their overall reliability, but catastrophic failure of their high output motors hasn't been why they've gotten that reputation.
Also, I wouldn't call the S55 the most reliable given the crank hub failure threat. I think the S58 might take that crown but we still need time.
N54 was an amazing engine and it was way over engineered. It made well over 300hp lol
The main issue was the fuel pump and issues with injectors.
These could be tuned to make massive power but the supporting components fail.
The N55 was not as robust as N54 as it was Single Turbo. This was very reliable but couldn’t make as much power as N54.
The B58 came in various states of tune. The most updated one generates 382hp and is the best one so far. Its proven to be reliable and can make enormous power. The B58 in our X3 now has mild hybrid - it’s extremely fast.
The best inline 6 engines are the S55 and S58 which are on the M cars. The S55 on the F8x cars has proven to be probably the most reliable M engine ever. People tune these things like crazy and they get tracked. The S55 makes incredible power.
The S58 is on the current M3 and is even more robust motor that continues to build power at higher RPMs where the previous S55 would die down.
I have personally owned cars with all these engines except for the new S58.
BMW’s whole brand is built on Inline 6 motors.
Dodge should stick with Hemi V8s and add mild hybrid like everyone else is doing.
Agree with everything you wrote except for one minor item below, but point of clarification, I did say that the N54 was rated for 300 or 335hp. Not that that's how much it actually made, just that's the specs that BMW published.
Originally Posted by TangoRed
Also, I wouldn't call the S55 the most reliable given the crank hub failure threat. I think the S58 might take that crown but we still need time.
Bone stock, crank hub failures are incredibly uncommon. They do happen, but are rare enough that I would call the unmodified S55 exceptionally reliable. It becomes dramatically more common the more power you make. If you're going to modify and tune, spend the ~$2k and get your crankhub keyed. Problem avoided.
I think the S58 has been around long enough to take the "most reliable M engine" crown. It was introduced almost 6 years ago, in the (comparatively) high-volume X3M/X4M, and no critical weakpoint has been found yet. There are tons of 700+ hp examples (and a not-insignificant number of 1000+ hp examples) that have gone tens of thousands of hard miles without incident. Issues with HPFPs, rod bearings, throttle actuators, crank hubs, belt ingestion, etc all started to surface relatively quickly after previous engines were introduced, some of them in totally stock cars.
They've had a Hemi V8 + mild hybrid system for years. It's not going to help them meet their goals in the future. The Hurricane engine took a very long time to develop and I'm looking forward to its use. Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram may not be known for their overall reliability, but catastrophic failure of their high output motors hasn't been why they've gotten that reputation.
Also, I wouldn't call the S55 the most reliable given the crank hub failure threat. I think the S58 might take that crown but we still need time.
Crankhub is an issue if you are tuning the engine for Stage 2 or higher.
If you stay stock or do mild GTS/CS or Stage 1 tune which is already over 500 - you don’t need to worry.
The development of S55 and F8x cars was basically no expenses spared as they finally wanted to have an M car that could be driven at the track with no issues. That’s why these cars have tremendous cooling, CF components etc. They are also the last M cars with DCT.
The S58 make more power at the top end but your stuck with an Auto trans.
Agree with everything you wrote except for one minor item below, but point of clarification, I did say that the N54 was rated for 300 or 335hp. Not that that's how much it actually made, just that's the specs that BMW published.
Bone stock, crank hub failures are incredibly uncommon. They do happen, but are rare enough that I would call the unmodified S55 exceptionally reliable. It becomes dramatically more common the more power you make. If you're going to modify and tune, spend the ~$2k and get your crankhub keyed. Problem avoided.
I think the S58 has been around long enough to take the "most reliable M engine" crown. It was introduced almost 6 years ago, in the (comparatively) high-volume X3M/X4M, and no critical weakpoint has been found yet. There are tons of 700+ hp examples (and a not-insignificant number of 1000+ hp examples) that have gone tens of thousands of hard miles without incident. Issues with HPFPs, rod bearings, throttle actuators, crank hubs, belt ingestion, etc all started to surface relatively quickly after previous engines were introduced, some of them in totally stock cars.
BMW and Porsche continue tradition of significantly underrating their engines.
The S58 seems to be tuned much less aggressively from factory vs S55. The early S55 cars put down so much torque down low that it was hard to control them and press criticized this. The tuners made this even worse. The later versions were a bit better. The DCT was also very jerky at low speeds.
The S58 is basically tuned where your grandma can drive it and sip
coffee at the same time. ZF auto makes it smooth as butter in traffic etc.
To me S55/DCT combo is a much more raw / unique experience but its not as fast or as good putting down power as S58/ZF as BMW perfected the tuning of the torque curve to maximize acceleration and have enough for top end.
A little off topic, but this weekend I got to drive my friends M5, I think 2022. 4.4L TT 8 speed AWD with 627 HP. An incredible vehicle, incredible driving experience! He took this pic following me in my Y. I may post a thread on it
OK, back to topic
Last edited by AMIRZA786; Oct 27, 2023 at 09:56 AM.
Toyota and Lexus Join Mille Miglia For The First Time
Slideshow: A five-car lineup spanning more than five decades of Toyota performance and engineering will tackle one of Italy's most celebrated automotive routes.
Not that that's how much it actually made, just that's the specs that BMW published.
