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Op-Ed: GR Supra is Currently the Best Lexus/Toyota Driver's Car
Hey, Guys! I recently had the IS 500 in for review again and it got me thinking about all the amazing Lexus and Toyota performance vehicles I've driven while working at ClubLexus. So I decided to write an op-ed about why the GR Supra 3.0 is the best of the bunch in terms of being a sports car or driver's car --
Weird article, but I have come to expect it. I can understand it is a subjective opinion article, but they seem to make it sound like they are facts. For example. RCF's transmission at full-boil is actually slightly faster than the LC500 with a AISIN officially rated shift time of 100 ms vs 120 ms for the 10 speed. The LC500 transmission overall, is a better transmission part-throttle and around town when not going pedal to the metal. It just acts better in nearly every situation, but the fact remains at full boil the RCF transmission is slightly rated at faster speeds.
Not sure what you mean about it is odd driving? I have owned an RCF for 7+ years and the only odd thing about it is, it has a very strong jekyll/hyde personality. On the one hand, it is very relaxed and almost GT like while dialed up to max, it becomes extremely aggressive going to 7/10ths and beyond, tail happy wanting to oversteer with very strong acceleration in turns and on the straights. If you look at it objectively besides Supra, the RCF is the most driver's car because it is the most dynamic and engaging car when hustling it in spirited driving and around a race track because that is what it was designed to do.
The other thing is, the criteria of the article is extremely confusing. I can totally understand LC500 is a great car to be driven on the streets and for most of the driving duties, but driver's car is supposed to be something that is engaging at the limits. The article is about 'driver's car' and Supra is the choice, but then you go on to talk about LC500 as your other favorite, which is on the other side of the spectrum as a GT/luxury/touring, which goes against the definition of what a true driver's car is as LC500 is not a 8/10th or above car.
To the point in the article of IS500 looking better than the RCF, I can confidentially say no one will think IS500 looks better than this. The specialness is simply not there as far as aesthetics go. I have driven an IS500 myself (and own an IS350 F-Sport) and there is very little differentiating an IS350 from IS500 when you look at it a distance.
I'm sorry that I don't like the RC F as much as you and I'm glad you enjoy owning it. Nothing I wrote will change that.
That is not what I said. How is LC500 a driver's car when you never push it beyond 6/10th or 7/10th? I am not saying what your subjective opinions are that need to change. Article is full of contradictions is my point.
@05RollaXRS How many miles do you have on your RC F? I remember when you got it, but hadn't realized it's been over 7 years!
I bought it in 2017 so not quite 7 years, but close. I have 11,000 miles on it and only driving and modify it for spirited and enjoyment driving with it in spring/summers. I have an RX450h and a 2019 IS350 F-Sport to fill in for the daily driving duties.
How is LC500 a driver's car when you never push it beyond 6/10th or 7/10th? I am not saying what your opinions are that need to change. Article is full of contradictions is my point.
Look, I get it, the article upset you and you're trying to delegitimize my opinion. You are very welcome to think the RC is #1 and feel free to write up a thread about why. We might even consider publishing it on the front page. My love for the LC is based on driving it in the canyons around Los Angeles, highways, local roads, and on a race track (Laguna Seca) -- https://www.clublexus.com/articles/r...riving-school/
Did I take it to 6th or 7th or 10/10ths...? I have no idea. I'm not a professional driver. But I prefer the way the LC feels and sounds. I also noted several times that it's a GT and not a sports car in the article. I said the LC is my favorite; I did not say it's the best. The Supra is not my favorite, but it is my pick for best.
Look, I get it, the article upset you and you're trying to delegitimize my opinion. You are very welcome to think the RC is #1 and feel free to write up a thread about why. We might even consider publishing it on the front page. My love for the LC is based on driving it in the canyons around Los Angeles, highways, local roads, and on a race track (Laguna Seca) -- https://www.clublexus.com/articles/r...riving-school/
Did I take it to 6th or 7th or 10/10ths...? I have no idea. I'm not a professional driver. But I prefer the way the LC feels and sounds. I also noted several times that it's a GT and not a sports car in the article. I said the LC is my favorite; I did not say it's the best. The Supra is not my favorite, but it is my pick for best.
Alright. You seem to be constantly deflecting away and pivoting on the fact that I own an RCF and what looks like a personal attack. I am sticking to the facts that take my own personal bias and subjective opinions out of the equation with the exceptions in the looks comment. 'Driver's car' has a very specific definition. It has to be both exciting (which the LC500 is indeed) and also be inviting to be pushed to the limits. That also includes, taking a turn at 90 mph and being able to balance the car at such high speeds through a sweeping turn with the body control via chassis/suspension being able to handle it while being enjoyable for the driver.
The funniest part of this is that one of the "best" car contenders is a German one. That says it all.
If Lexus simply gave us the LCF none of this would've been a debate at all. That or even just shove the 3.5TT into everything it could possibly fit in like the Germans do with their FI 6 cylinder engines.
To be honest, I'm a little confused about this debate. My hypothesis was simply that the Supra is the best driver's car available from these brands. I still contend this. I also included quick comparisons between other Lexus and Toyota vehicles versus the Supra to add some context. I didn't say the LC was better than the RC; I said I preferred the overall experience despite its limitations as a GT.
It's perfectly fine that you think the RC is the best driver's car. I mean this as sincerely as humanly possible. And please do feel free to write up a love letter to the RC; it could become a great thread or even an article.
Personally I’m not a big Supra fan at all.
First there is nothing from Toyota on it. The car is full of compromises and is just not comfortable to see out of or even sit.
The RCF is a decent car but the dated interior, heavy weight, and frankenstein chassis doesn’t help it. My #1 issue with it is the exterior styling which is awkward from many angles.
The LC500 is by far the best car Toyota/Lexus makes and it’s really a bargain. To me, it had great inputs, makes the right noises and the 10speed is MUCH better than the 8speed in RCF/ISF. Also with rear wheel steer, the chassis manages its weight very well especially that its much lower than RCF.
The RCF is a decent car but the dated interior, heavy weight, and frankenstein chassis doesn’t help it. My #1 issue with it is the exterior styling which is awkward from many angles.
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Everything in this class weighs this much these days. It is a homologated chassis. Media went crazy without even understanding what Lexus did. The so-called "Frankenstein" chassis is heavy because it is actually one of the most stiffest chassis Lexus has ever made, which is why it is heavy because reinforcement add weight unless you use carbon fiber. You need to really look underneath to see how much was done. It really becomes apparent when pushing the car to the limits. I own an IS350 F-Sport and I can tell you RCF chassis on a completely different level when going over 7/10th of each car's limit. Even with around 530 HP at crank, the chassis still seems to be ahead of the engine in most cases. You cannot do almost 1.00g on the skidpad or an instantaneous turn pulling over 1.40G instantaneously on street tires without a really good chassis.
I don't want to start bashing the LC500 (and I was avoiding that), but I have driven it myself and my experience is not the same as you described in terms of handling weight. It rolls, pitches. dives when you really challenge the chassis and is the soft side as it is a GT luxury car.
I like the RC F, LC 500 and IS. Really enjoyed the GS F, but no longer made. Should have kept that one. And I'm sure the Supra is great, but sticking to my Lexus dealer with a vehicle made by them. So this year I switched to an IS 350 F sport with F Sport handling package. I am really enjoying the lighter weight for a change of pace from the 5.0 V8. I can really throw it into some corners around town. Not saying it's better...it's definitely not as fast...I like them all, just enjoying it for a change. Steering and handling are great. Also enjoying not having to clean the wheels as much! . I am tempted to try the updated RC F. Ours was a 2015.
09-18-23, 10:33 AM
Op-Ed: GR Supra is Currently the Best Lexus/Toyota Driver's Car
. I am tempted to try the updated RC F. Ours was a 2015.