Originally Posted by patgilm

I’m not denigrating their skills but it’s supply and demand and if their skills are easily replaced it won’t command top dollar for their labor. With the same logic why shouldn’t fast food workers get similar benefits as autoworkers because they don’t work in the best conditions either. What is equitable pay and when does it become equitable?

Originally Posted by LeX2K

UAW isn't content to just destroy the "big 3" they want to wreck the entire U.S. automotive industry.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Ridiculous. The idea that the UAW is going to destroy the American automotive industry makes about as much sense as the Tooth Fairy, Flat-Earth Society, or Santa Claus. In fact, when were the Big Three, (particularly GM), actually at their best, prospering the most,...with the highest percentage of market share and the greatest profits? Answer: In the 1950s through the early 1970s......which is exactly when the UAW was also at its most powerful and greatest strength. The demise of the UAW led to the demise of the Big Three.

Originally Posted by swajames

since we have similar backgrounds, I was an equity partner at one of the Big 4 before founding my own tax and accounting technology business, you’ll understand that when I say we clearly disagree on our definition of stress it’s coming from a peer who does and did what you do.

The professional stress you describe is real, but it’s nothing compared to the stresses of struggling to support your family, a family member getting sick without access to medical insurance or myriad other things that we’ve never had to deal with. I consider myself fortunate to have only professional stresses.

And I really don’t see why anyone feels the need to take exception to a worker’s demands for more equitable pay or to denigrate their skills, all of which has happened in this thread. I see this simply as a rising tide floating all boats.

Originally Posted by LeX2K

You are not paying attention. READ that X post, all of it. UAW has aspirations to be a *olitical party with tremendous power (they are all ready in bed with you know who). Their goal is to strong arm every corporation into paying workers more. All corporations and CEOs in their eyes are evil, the enemy. If you're still in denial look up EAT THE RICH the phrase on the T-shirt worn by your favourite UAW rep.

Is that a wake up call for you yet?

UAW offers nothing but another bureaucratic layer they offer no other value. UAW believes down to their bones General Motors the corporation and by extension Mary Barra are the enemy.

If the radical dogma coming from the UAW fails to set off alarm bells then you've crossed the point of no return. It isn't 1964 anymore the UAW is not what you think it is.

Originally Posted by Striker223

This is an engineered tide that forcibly helps a few.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Better pay and pensions for their workers is anything BUT radical. You said it isn't 1964 anymore. Yes, that's correct...but it is one reasons WHY the industry is in such a mess. In 1964, when auto workers HAD good salaries and retirement-pensions, it certainly did not hurt the Big Three.....they themselves were at their high point in prosperity. And I'll repeat it again, because it is a fact......WHEN the UAW started losing their size, influence, and benefits, THAT's when the big Three started losing what property and market share trey had.

Also, although I am not a moderator, perhaps (?) this thread is getting too political. I don't want to see it get shut down.

Originally Posted by LeX2K

Exactly.

Structure a deal where workers are paid based on performance. Quality, cost, efficiency. Do well you get paid more. Do poorly you don't, or get fired. UAW is the exact opposite of this.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Nothing in the UAW code or contracts prevents lazy, drunk/stoned, irresponsible, or incompetent workers from being disciplined, suspended, or fired. The company has a perfect right to do that. In fact, the Union knows that unworthy employees like that are an embarrassment to the good workers around them, and to the union itself.

Originally Posted by LeX2K

They pushed for a 4 day work week with better pay. Give me a break.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

First, that has nothing to do with my previous comment on incompetent employees.. Second, I did not necessarily support the push for a 4-day work week. IMO, the pensions were the single most important issue, followed by the hourly-pay rates. In fact, a 4-day work week would, in some ways, be even harder on employees, since, in exchange for an extra day off, they would be probably working 10-hour shifts, and maybe costing the company overtime for more than 8 hours a day.

Originally Posted by LeX2K

Exactly.

Structure a deal where workers are paid based on performance. Quality, cost, efficiency. Do well you get paid more. Do poorly you don't, or get fired. UAW is the exact opposite of this.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Nothing in the UAW code or contracts prevents lazy, drunk/stoned, irresponsible, or incompetent workers from being disciplined, suspended, or fired. The company has a perfect right to do that. In fact, the Union knows that unworthy employees like that are an embarrassment to the good workers around them, and to the union itself.

Originally Posted by mmarshall

And I'll repeat it again, because it is a fact......WHEN the UAW started losing their size, influence, and benefits, THAT's when the big Three started losing what property and market share they had. The better (and more benefits) the auto companies treated their workers, the more those companies prospered.

Originally Posted by Striker223

Do you know any union workers? I do. That's not at all how it works in reality.