and that's why i said i believe it and didn't say i know it.

 

Okay I'll bite, how much do you think they've lost so far? And how can you completely separate it from auto sales since the charging network no doubt sells cars.

 

I think that's the key, they probably bake in the cost into each car sold. They couldn't be making money on .33 cents per kwh (what I paid on my last trip), at least not much. They are probably making some money on subscriptions for non Tesla's. Just my 2 cents

 

Agreed.
I'm quite certain Tesla is never going to make a pile of cash from their charging network even with other auto makers signing on. I've read estimates everywhere from $100 million to 1+ billion/year revenue which isn't helpful that's too much of a range.

Grid storage on the other hand is highly profitable something like 70% net.

 

The billions Tesla spends on land and chargers in bitkahuna's examples don't directly impact profitability in that business unit because these will be treated as fixed assets and be depreciated over extended time frames (and some of these assets which are depreciated for tax purposes will actually appreciate in value). Tesla is also going to pay a lot less that its retail rates for power and likely has long term supply contracts to help manage margins etc. The supercharger business should be capable of generating quite significant operating profits, but one thing that does still factor in are the cars out there that still benefit from free supercharging (in some cases, lifetime free supercharging). The impact of these will diminish over time as the number of cars Tesla sold without free charging is far greater than those that Tesla sold with it, but until these work their way out of the system there's going to be some reduction in margin in the charging business.

 

My free Polestar charging ended January, and my free Ioniq charging ends June 2025, although I think we've only used it twice. Since I traveled a lot in my Polestar throughout 2022, I definitely got my money's worth

 

Tesla Powerpack is a potential money printer they buy energy when cheap sell it back at higher prices. But since Tesla mainly sells (I think) Powerpack to utilities then they don't see that revenue, or some or maybe none don't know how their contract is structured.

 

RIP TSLA

 

lots of speculation by many here, not just mine so i'll pass on your 'digging' which you know i don't have answers for, but i will say that while i don't "KNOW" this either, it seems pretty obvious the investment in and existence of the charging network has a significant effect / advantage on selling cars.

interestingly, when the network is available to many brands, the tesla advantage is lessened, although i guess tesla will charge more for non-tesla charging?

how much do you think they'll make?

 

$12.99 a month subscription, then same rate

 

I wondered about this too, and you may be right, but I think the opposite might actually end up being at least somewhat true. Not every charger is open to non-Teslas, charger reliability and availability positively reinforces the Tesla brand, we may well see more differentiated pricing in future, and there’s obviously a lot of opportunity for positive up close and personal exposure to Tesla vehicles in general. At some level that’s got to drive more people to explore what the rest of the Tesla ownership experience is like.

with that said, I don’t think any of this is actually why Tesla is doing this. I do take at face value that this is more about Musk’s belief that society as a whole should transition to EVs as soon as possible and that anything that supports that goal is in society’s best interests than it is about revenue or profit.

 

I believe becoming the standard also provides more subsidies for further build outs

 

I've read estimates anywhere from $100 million to $1 billion/year revenue. Even if on the upper end not much compared to overall revenue.

 

Some bad news for Tesla....

Tesla Stock Downgraded While This Bull Explains Why Toyota Is Besting EV Giant

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla...ta-bets-tesla/

 

Heard a lot of positive feedback on FSD V12. Anyone here experienced it? I saw it on a social media awhile back about V12 and 300,000 lines of C++ and I thought someone was making a joke of it. Lol