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That would be awesome bad. Would be a cool experience and awesome youtube videos. That's a long drive, I'd have to have a lot of confidence in my build. Being stuck in Louisiana or something would be terrible.
I'd be really interested in seeing how our cars compare, and how they behave. I was reading that if all things were equal, a roots car is better at highway rolls because of the more torque they put down earlier, thus giving more power in the down shift and taking off from a centrifugal with the same horsepower.
I also got the side mount inter cooler installed today, minus the piping. It is an OEM Aristo JZ161 (1998-2005 chassis) that directly mounts into the passenger wheel well via 3 brackets and bolts (M6 x 1.0 thread about 1.5" long).
Now I'm very proud of finding this one. I've been watching these on eBay since I started my build about two months ago. Every single auction did not have all the brackets, at the most just 2 of them, some had none. It wasn't even till this auction popped up I noticed they are supposed to have 3. I even emailed them after I bought it and basically said don't bother sending it if it doesn't have all 3 like in the pictures.
Anyways, I thought I could bolt it in just by taking off the tire. Nope! Had to undo the passenger side of the bumper, bring it out a bit, unbolt the pass headlamp assembly, and then was able to squeeze it in. As you can see, it is a very tight fit! Look at how close the OEM HID ballast sits to the intake of the inter cooler. Also, I took another picture from inside the wheel well trying to capture how tight it was. I noticed you can't even see where the line is for the frame. You can see it more clearly in person but it's crazy how tight it looks on camera. It's very solid though, with the 3 brackets they engineered, I can't get it to budge by shaking it.
Also have some measurements.
The intake to the procharger is 3.75" outer diameter (I know!) and the outlet is 3"
Intake to the side mount IC is 2.5" outer diameter and the outlet is 2.5" as well
Because the GS400's OEM intake pipe is roughly 3.2" outer diameter where the MAF sits, I will use 3" intercooler piping all around. Silicone adapters I will need:
3" to 3.75" for air filter to procharger intake.
3" to 3" (included in kit) from procharger outlet to 3" hot pipe start (s-shaped)
3" to 2.5" for hot pipe end to enter SMIC intake
2.5" to 3" for the SMIC outlet to 3" cold pipe start
3" to 3" for cold pipe end into throttle body
Also, all I need now is the 1) piping/silicone adapters and the aluminum MAF flange from a $50 intake for the 98-00 GS300. Need some of that stuff TIG welded by someone. Then 2) fuel injectors and 3) oil lines/fittings/adapters for the headunit 4) tuning and done.
I'll definitely need to touch up the black paint on the valve covers, cam covers, etc. after getting it installed. Maybe HKS copy BOV (will have to be bypass valve instead) and powder coated procharger brackets/intercooler piping at some point.
After the build I want to do Figs sway bars, (I have cheapies on right now), re-fresh the front suspension more, get the vinyl stripes, and maybe get coil overs. I'll also need new wheels cause my fronts are bent and can't be balanced. Car was fine and didn't shake with the stock 16s.
If anyone is curious, this is exactly how the Aristo side mount is setup from the factory. Here are some pics and also drawing of how the piping will run. You can see they engineered the Intercooler to be at a slight tilt kind of like F1 technology, but not quite (horizontal in F1 vs. vertical) but still kindof scoops air up into the fins this way. You will also see that I removed a black plastic piece that will now funnel air right into the intercooler. They are by the foglights and can be just popped out. It really doesn't look bad looking at it from the front. You can only really see inside if you are eye level with the foglights. You can't see it far away because the details distort from far away.
Thanks man it will save many hours and headaches trying to get a front mount intercooler and piping to even fit.
Did not want to cut the frame, or steel bumper frame bar. Also will not have to worry about making aluminum or steel brackets, figure out what size bolts, where to put them, drilling holes in the frame, maybe having to weld, etc.
This side mount bolted right in and will be good for the amount of PSI and horsepower I plan on using.
So the news! I ordered everything needed to complete this project (except diverter/bypass valve and it's pipe, will order tomorrrow. Not crucial item) just waiting on the rest of the stuff to get here.
In my 8 or so years of using ebay, I've never been sent the wrong thing until now. Of course. When I want to finish a project.
I ordered 3x different -4AN fittings and 3x different -8an fittings but they sent me -6an ones instead. I contacted them and explained that they sent me the wrong ones. After some of their skepticism, I think they realized I knew what I was talking about. I did send pics compared to some real -8an stuff I had. I also said they sent me 9/16" diameter fittings, which are -6an, but ordered 3/4" which is -8an. The ones they sent did not fit on my head unit fitting, nor another adapter I had, and indeed measured at 9/16", only a tad bigger than the -4an ones. Possible good news! They said not to worry about shipping the old ones back and they will get the -8an ones at asap. I hope they send the right ones because there seemed to be a language barrier. I originally ordered and still need 2x right 90 degree angles and 1x 180 degree angle. I probably won't need one of the 90s but just ordered two in case.
Here's a pic of the RX8 420cc injectors. Cleaned them really well with a goo-gone type of aerosol spray from turtle wax (sticker remover can) and I am not kidding I used about 100 q tips and some paper towels. They also have all new 24 o rings. It appears that no RX8s (with these yellow injectors from a manual car at least) came with the connector seals so I guess that is just something I'll deal without. I might just switch them out from my stock injectors.
I really hope these fit. The really only people that say it will work 100% are in different countries. A guy in russia sent me pictures of his, and swear they worked with those fat style o-rings at the bottom because they are the same thickness as a plastic part on the stock injectors. His car was running. Another guy in australia said they work as well but I didn't see pics of his, and his isn't running yet.
EDIT: They do fit! These are secondary injectors (for CC ratings) with primary grommets (only those fit)
Heres a pic with the stock noise/heat insulators and connector seals from the oem injectors:
So more info! First a little on spark plugs. When going forced induction from a stock naturally aspirated motor, it is recommended to change spark plugs for a few reasons.
1) Heat range. Even with or without an inter cooler, you will always deal with slightly higher intake temps from compressed air. We know the story, more heat equals less oxygen equals less power and possible pre-detonation, knock, and/or engine damage. NGK rates their plugs using low numbers. For example our stock plugs in the 1UZ/2UZ/3UZ and even 2JZGTE have a NGK heat range of 6. BKR6EIX where the IX denotes iridium which are stock. The lower the number the hotter, so a 5 would be a step hotter. A step colder would be 7 which is what this project and most modded 2JZs call for. Calls for the BKR7E but no IX, just copper, will elaborate more in point or reason number 2. Denso use a different system. Our stock plug for Denso would be SK20R11 (IK20). The 20 is the heat range which equals 6 in NGK. 11 is 1.1mm gap. So a step colder plug in denso would be SK22R11 (IK22). 22 equals 7 in NGK. There are charts that make this easy on google. The way and amount the spark plug insulator and nose length are exposed to the combustion gasses and engine block themselves are what design this cold or hot factor.
2) Type of material. Alot of people recommend copper for after market forced induction. Especially those who specialize in 1UZ forced induction world wide on a great facebook page. Some claim to have even lost great power and tuneability with using iridiums. Now adays most forced induction cars are engineered for iridiums but I supposed aftermarket stuff is different. Copper is a better conductor, you just have to replace them at around 10,000 to 30,000 for FI. Iridium usually last 80k to 100k.
3) Gap. For 4-15 psi a gap of 0.8mm or 0.9mm or .030 is recommended. For 15psi and up 0.6mm/0.7mm or .025 gap is recommended. This is compared to a stock gap of most NA cars with 1.1mm or .04 or .044. With forced induction you do not want the now-compressed air rushing and packing the cylinders to blow out the spark at high rpm. By gapping them tighter, and using copper, you can keep up with the high volumes of air and burn the fuel correctly. The spark can occur between the shorter gap, and conducting material, quicker and more consistently with the two electrodes being closer together. Contrary to popular opinion you CAN gap iridiums but salesmen and manufacturers have been told to tell customers no. I say this too if the person buying them isn't car savy. Most people try to gap them using the step tool which scratches off the iridium coating or damages or breaks the small electrode pointy tip. To gap an iridium, there are some youtube vids on it, but basically use a special (kinda) gap tool that people have seen many times just didn't know how to use. This is in part why people say to use copper plugs when you need to gap them smaller, because you can't gap iridium. Which isn't true completely, but it does make sense to tune on copper spark plugs at $2 each compared to iridum at $8 a piece.
When I looked up BKR7Es, I got a lot of numbers. The first was your typical BKR7E which on the NGK box there is part number of 4644 too. I also got BKR7E-11 which the 11 means 1.1mm gap or pregapped to .044. I ALSO got BKR7ES-11 or 4952 which I had no idea what the S stood for, but I think it means "standard" now and I will explain. The ES are the regular flat copper electrodes, while the E is the new "V-power" groove design which I thought was gimmecky. So I just bought 8x BKR7ES-11 which is the classic design and re-gapped them to .8mm or .03.
With this project I wanted to rule out any inconsistencies. I put in all the spark plugs tonight and it wasn't fun. I heated the motor up a bit, thinking it'd make them easier but those plugs definitely felt like they were the 18 year old original ones. They were very difficult to turn and some spots were tight in the engine bay. They were NGK IFR6A11 so not sure if those are original because I thought OEM were Denso SK20R11s but they seem to be the same physcially and both iridium. Anyways I got the coppers installed to rule out them being duds, my engine not liking them, or just running any different from stock. My thoughts are I don't want to change spark plugs, injectors, and throw 8psi into it all at once. If I have some sort of minor or major problem then I won't know what it is.
I drove around with the new copper, colder spark plugs in and all is good. They idle great, and I swear they seem smoother to me at speed. The way it revs up and down feels this way. It didn't add any power obviously but again, smoother. Could be in my head. So these are good, I plan to throw the bigger injectors in next with out the supercharger, and make sure I don't have any issues with one being stuck open, closed, etc.
I'm rocking coppers in mine too. The idea is that copper dissipates heat better than any other metal, so that means that they will not stay as red hot during high cylinder pressures causing pre ignition. so far so good. problem is, they should be replaced around 30k miles. no problem though.
Yes copper absorbs heat better and dissipates better than the other metals used in spark plugs such as platinum and iridium. Copper absorbs heat better than aluminum but aluminum dissipates heat better but alum is not used in spark plugs. It is a physics property I cannot full understand but this is why copper is used primarily in water/heater pipes and aluminum is used in heat sinks for electronics/computers. Very high end heat sinks use a mixture of copper/aluminum.
More news! Here's some pics of my intercooler piping (a few pieces not shown for pic size, diagram also shown) and extended MAF harness. I had to extend it about 1.5 feet because it has to reach the cold side of the pipe near the throttle body. I used double shrink tubing on each solder joint on each wire which there were 5. So that was 20 pieces of heat shrink. Then I twisted the whole harness and taped it in 3 spots to hold the twist. Then used 3/8" conduit and taped it all the way down and then back up for a total layer of 2x layers. This is how the OEM harnesses are done. I use 3M Super 33 electrical tape which is the best I've used. It is super thin, sticky, and very stretchy/flexible. I haven't tried the Super 88 yet. More pics of some things I've described below.
I have almost all the parts here. I'm just waiting for a few more. Mainly one fitting, and oil return plate/-8an weld bung. EDIT: The mazda rx8 injectors are shorter, but because of the special grommets, fit perfect and did not need shorter fuel rail spacers!
The diverter valve from RKS is very high quality for $45 shipped on eBay. There was a video on youtube showing the quality differences between it and standard aluminum valves and this one was much better. Also much better than the standard OEM plastic ones which are about $20. The plastic and standard aluminum no brand valves both would leak and stop releasing the valve and used weird o-rings to seal the piston to the bottom. The RKS uses a precision machined lip that seals metal to metal and works perfectly. It came with 3 different spring ratings, 8-22psi red spring, 22-30psi blue spring, and 30psi and up yellow spring. It had the blue in so I had to put the red in. It also included hose clamps, instructions, and 3 o-rings for a future rebuild.
I hooked it up to the fitting pictured below and it works great. I used the throttle cable on the throttle body to test it. For those who don't know, a bypass/diverter valve bypasses boost during idle (high vacuum holds up/open valve.) It shuts the valve for full PSI boost the second the vacuum is dropped in the manifold at wide open throttle. You can re-route it to the air intake before the blower for low noise or just vent it to the air. These are used on all roots style superchargers, some turbos (the one I bought is a direct replacement for some turbo cars) and should be used on centrifugals. You can use a blow off valve but they are trickier to set it. If not done right, they can cause excess heat, and hard on the compressor. Mine will be right before the MAF and divert back to the intake but I'll try to the atmosphere too for fun. I think that way it will just sound like a vacuum cleaner (was told this from an experienced guy too) because boost is rushing out the pipe into the atmosphere at idle/cruise. I bought a 1" hole saw from ACE Hardware and it created a perfect hole for the 1" aluminum pipe that will be TIG welded. This is so I can attach hoses to the valve if I ever need to take it off.
This fitting on the manifold is perfect! It was not used and I think it looks alot better with a hose and clamp on it rather than a cap. The line I'm using is washer fluid/vacuum line 5/16" and using 3/8" (the smallest I could find) spring hose clamps
I'll definitely do some videos man. I wont be that guy to disappear once everything is running.
I borrowed my neighbor's chop saw today to cut the intercooler piping and make a $20 bead rolling tool. The piping is almost done, and I have a picture of pretty much how the final product will look as well as the tool. Only thing not pictured is the bypass valve, I'll need to get a few things TIG welded for that. Very easy though, super easy. It was fairly straight forward cutting the pipe except the bottom. I had to use a 45 degree coupler, ~30 degree pipe (had to cut from a 180 degree pipe) and use two right angles to go up to the throttle body. It sits lower than I'd like in the bottom, but it had to clear the lower radiator hose and other things because of the exit angle from the intercooler.
I'm still surprised the hood closes with the air filter like that.
The tool is basically a special pair of wire cutters/crimpers, with the tip cut off, and parts grinded to create more space for the "bead" shape and not being bitten by any sharp spots made for thin wire. I saw this from a video on youtube, and looks very professional. I like to torch the pipe before hand just to soften the pipe a bit so it is not as brittle when crimping/stamping the bead into the aluminum. The picture below is shown on a test piece. The tool was not 100% finished and I did not torch that piece. EDIT: This tool worked on thinner aluminum, but was impossible to use on pieces of piping where the lip was close or on a bend. Ending up using a bead rolling tool at a shop.
Here is something badblackgs taught me as well, a big thanks to him. Because I'm using the oil level switch plate for the oil return per his suggestion, I bought an oil block off plate for this, that will drill a hole through and TIG weld a -8AN bung in there. The switch has two wires that short together in the oil to keep the oil light from coming on. When you take the plug out, you have to short them together since you're removing the switch. So I took a piece of solid core wire (stranded would be a mess) and put it in the plug making sure the pins bit the wire tight. The middle of the wire was still insulated, and tucked flush inside negative space of the plug. Then it was wrapped in Super 33 electrical tape 3 different directions, and then zip tied to another wire harness conduit.
I'll also need to go to ace hardware store tomorrow and get 2x flanged head M6 x 1.0 bolts about 1" long because the stock MAF bolts aren't threaded all the way but will need to be for this new aluminum flange. No biggy
I definitely look forward to making some. Now sound, it is a more quiet setup right now, but the guy at the exhaust shop said it is the best GS he has ever heard. He told me on two different occasions, once a month ago, and then today when I had to stop by there for something.
I don't know, it's not that loud at WOT, I wish it had a tad more rasp I told him. He said that when the procharger goes on and I make more power, it will sound even better and more powerful/louder and I might like that better. So I am anxious. If anything the quieter exhaust will let me hear that procharger more and I do like the minimal drone. I haven't posted any clips of this new exhaust since I got it like 6 months ago so I'll definitely get some exhaust-focused videos.
More news again, it's getting so so close. One of the next posts it will probably be running.
I'm currently going to get some stuff TIG welded in the next few days. I already started on the fuel injectors.
It turns out that! - Ive confirmed that RX8 fuel injectors are a 100% drop in. Same plug connector, not even the fuel rail spacers need to be changed. HOWEVER you MUST use the red injector (primary) grommets for the injector tips. Or just use the red injectors but Are only 350cc and I wanted the 420cc yellows so I put the red grommets on those. The red grommets are larger and fit perfect unlike the 1UZ non vvti or yellow (from manual cars 420cc or blue injectors from autos 520cc) RX8 grommets. (I didn't have enough of those red grommets so I ordered some and will let the car sit till Saturday morning till I get them bolted back in)
You don't even have to block off the air injection because the grommets do that as pictured below. Also, you can use the noise/heat insulators on them as well from the most rearward 4x fuel injectors on the engine if you want.
Confusing info warning: The RX8 and 1UZ NON vvti injector are same height and interchangable. The VVTi are taller but have the same fuel rail spacer heights as the RX8/NON vvti because of manifold design. Although, with the red primary grommets, the RX8 injectors do not need shorter spacers inside the VVTi motor because of the way they sit in there. Perfect! Basically, the stock fuel rail spacers fit will 100% accuracy and precision and hold the rail/injectors in perfectly.
I'm guessing Toyota/Mazda really designed their engines around Denso's injectors but is really cool that they swap perfectly, especially the connectors. I'll run the car naturally aspirated with the bigger injectors to make sure they all work.
I also did the oil lines. For the first time I made some AN fitting hoses and it was actually pretty fun. Now tapping the oil pressure switch for the send line to the procharger was not fun. It was near the oil filter housing, and space was so tight. The oil pressure socket (1 and 1/16") was too tall and wouldn't allow any type of 1/2" drive ratchet/breaker bar to fit or it would hit the motor mount/submember/frame. So! I used the chop saw (so glad my neighbor let me use this, I did the inter cooler piping and other stuff like perfectly cutting the AN hose) to cut part of the socket off. Worked perfectly with enough clearance to get a 1/2 breaker bar in there. Was just a pain again cause I couldn't wrench it, I had to do it 1/4 turn at a time till hand loose. Also, there was a 8mm x 1.25 thread hole near the AC compressor on a bracket for some reason, so I used a rubber wire clamp/protector and threaded a bolt in there. I think it looks great and holds the hose away from the hot oil pan, and spinning crank pulley.
These are 5 or so TIG welds I need done for the intercooler piping and oil return plate, and that's literally it for the build.
(Besides those 8x grommets and 3.25" coupler I'm waiting for, should both be here Saturday the 19th, today is the 17th.
The local performance shop said they can do the welds very quick as well)
Huge update. When I put the 420cc injectors in I was in a rush (long story) and forgot to tighten down the two bolts that squeeze the MAF gasket to the housing. It created a huge air leak, no engine codes though, and caused the ECU to freak out. It sensed this extra air, dumped fuel to protect the engine, and kept flooding it at a stop, reverse, or idle. The larger injectors didn't help.
But I have let my car idle for an hour total today (Midday, Night and Late night minutes combined) and also drove the car hard those 3 times too on public roads at WOT and full stops. I can't get it to die at idle anyway after tightening those bolts/gaskets.
Moral: Don't rush and overlook simple things. The Yellow RX8 420cc drop-in injectors work fine now.
I'll be running the procharger hopefully wednesday. If I don't have tuning issues it will ready for driving.
The power is addictive, it feels like the power doesnt stop once youre in boost. It definitely woke the engine up.
I have an HD camera and HD dash cam I plan on using for videos.
As some may know by now, the build is finished. I've been driving the car for 3 days now procharged and it runs great.
I got my wide band in yesterday, Friday, and had the supplied bung welded that day.
It is not a permanent install, I have no place to put it, and I am confident in my tuning with the Apexi Neo.
I literally just plugged the power and ground wires from the unit into pin 4 and pin 15 of my OBDII port to power it and tuned it. There is a supplied M18 x 1.5 bolt I plugged it with after tuning. My tuner can also use this bung for his wide band on a future dyno session.
I had the wires coming from the exhaust running into my driver side and the door closed on the wires.
I will hook the wideband back up every couple months of so with climate changes or mods, but I like the cleaness of my interior.
AFRs holds steady at 14.7 at idle, cruising, or anything below full throttle. I tuned it to 11.5 at wide open throttle and that's the highest number I see.
11.2 is sometimes the lowest at WOT but I like rich safety margins rather than leaner.
The secret to tuning this successfully for me was mainly putting bigger injectors in, and using a bypass/diverter valve (actually used one made for turbo cars). The diverter valve bypasses boost at anything other than wide open throttle. This makes no more air flow than stock in these conditions, so tuning is easy in closed loop. The ECU is not freaking out here. At WOT, I originally didn't think I would have to pull fuel with the procharger. But these 420cc injectors are huge, and still had to pull fuel on the top end. If I didn't, it wouldn't rev above 3000 RPM because it was too rich. So by telling the Apexi to cut fuel, it is changing the MAF value to tell the ECU there is less air going in. So basically, in reality I only know how much air and fuel is going in at wide open throttle via my AFR wideband. The ECU thinks all is fine. The secret here is to not freak out the ECU.
I had a local guy do some TIG welding and he did a great job. He also bead rolled the edges in a modified roller and they look and function great.
I know some people were curious too about that driver's side bracket that reaches back to the valve cover utilizing the stock unused intake resonator bolt. It is 1" thick in some places, and has a 1/2" deep groove cut exactly in the shape of the bolt hole mount, which locks it in place.
So when I put the clamps on one of the cold pipes to the throttle body, the two plastic clips that hold some drain and overfill coolant lines to the radiator fan assembly would not allow the pipe to sit in the throttle body. It fit fine with out the clamps. So I used a mini hacksaw to cut them and it then fit perfect. There is no negative effect on this as everything is tight in there and does not move around.
When I got everything running, I noticed the belt was skipping and running a little bit off the power steering pump drive. It actually even chewed up a tiny tiny portion on the side of the belt and frayed. Luckily I have 3 different 8 rib belt sizes and put on the next smaller one. It was a PAIN but no slip what so ever.
I also had a problem with the free air filter I got it the GS300 intake pipe kit I bought for the MAF flange housing. When I would shut the hood, it knocked the two-piece glued in cheap air filter in half. So it literally knocked the air filter of the metal cone part. So I bought a one-piece soft-plastic K&N filter and the hood closes a lot easier and stays in one piece.
I also had to find two custom hoses for the bypass/diverter valve setup going from the cold pipe back into the air filter intake pipe. I went through a bunch of radiator hoses at work, and found 2 that worked. I needed a straight section about 4" long, and then another one with a bunch of crazy bends. I luckily found one. All the pipes were 1" inner diameter like the outlet/inlet on the diverter valve.
07-31-17, 03:06 PM
