1UZFE - Considering ITBs and Cams. Thoughts?
11-02-15, 08:29 AM
#16
While the stock positive lead is 6 gauge I wouldn't use that as a gauge to what you should run to the trunk; it's a fairly long run, I would want to bump it up. Although, running a 4 gauge wire through the door sill moldings can be a bit difficult, so you could run 2x 6 gauge wires instead, which gives you the equivalent of a single 3 gauge. There are 2 troughs in each molding, so it's probably easier to put 2 smaller runs than one thick one. Especially where it gets to the back seat area, I remember it being slightly annoying to even get just a 10 gauge cable around back there.
You can still leave the factory 6 gauge starter wire at the engine and do a terminal block to "splice" them together. The factory wire just has a terminal lug at the battery clamp, anyway, so a simple stud-type block would work well. There's also distribution blocks with studs and screws, so you can put your new battery cables on one side, the factory starter cable on the other, accessories in the screws. Then screw the block and its cover in an easy to reach area out of the way of your new SC/Turbo and pipes. If a turbo make sure it's far enough away from the exhaust side that it doesn't melt.
And wherever you run it through the firewall, make sure it's well protected from shorting out against the body.
You can still leave the factory 6 gauge starter wire at the engine and do a terminal block to "splice" them together. The factory wire just has a terminal lug at the battery clamp, anyway, so a simple stud-type block would work well. There's also distribution blocks with studs and screws, so you can put your new battery cables on one side, the factory starter cable on the other, accessories in the screws. Then screw the block and its cover in an easy to reach area out of the way of your new SC/Turbo and pipes. If a turbo make sure it's far enough away from the exhaust side that it doesn't melt.
And wherever you run it through the firewall, make sure it's well protected from shorting out against the body.
putting it where the stock stereo changer/amp was was perfect to offset the weight of the driver and lighten up the front end some, plus more weight over the tires is always a plus on these cars.
Hmm this sounds very intriguing and possibly what I'm looking to do if cams + itb wouldn't net me any more power than FI persay. Would you happen to have any links on build threads regarding this setup? I haven't been able to find a kit that comes with everything for 1UZ.
top of page 3 https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...er-kits-3.html
Yeah absolutely my thought as well. Break something, and transfer it onto the next 1UZ and drop it right back in.
Last question regarding stand alone ECM on 1UZ NA; Would I still go with the almighty AEM/ProEFI stand alone ECM?? Or is there a particular stand alone that is ideal for NA?
Last question regarding stand alone ECM on 1UZ NA; Would I still go with the almighty AEM/ProEFI stand alone ECM?? Or is there a particular stand alone that is ideal for NA?
Pro-efi, megasquirt etc.. are all great but you will likely have to wire them or get a patch harness.
11-02-15, 11:55 AM
#17
I ran a much larger gauge than the factory wires, I think it was 2 gauge and ran it on the drivers side so no worrying about exhaust or anything, there is a larger rubber washer you can push stuff through on the drivers fender. then it runs under the drivers side floor moldings just fine and into the trunk, there is quite a bit of space under the floor moulding. It was rather an easy project to be honest. you can run a block up front or just bolt all 3 lines together (starter wire, fusebox wire, and large gauge running to trunk. I used a sealed type battery for extra safety as well.
putting it where the stock stereo changer/amp was was perfect to offset the weight of the driver and lighten up the front end some, plus more weight over the tires is always a plus on these cars.
putting it where the stock stereo changer/amp was was perfect to offset the weight of the driver and lighten up the front end some, plus more weight over the tires is always a plus on these cars.
11-02-15, 01:11 PM
#18
believe it or not that was not the hard part it fit fine in the channel, the stock wire harness that goes in there is rather thick already and there is space next to it. The hard part was squeezing the 2 gauge through the rubber grommet on the firewall. first make a slit with a sharp blade, and then start pushing the wire through and it will keep a decent seal there like before.
some run a 0 gauge but according to my calculations at the time, 2 gauge was more than enough to support the current that the two 6 gauge wires up front can give.
I would not recommend running 2 lower gauge wires, and I'll throw my .02c on that as an EE and you can take it for what its worth or not.
In the car you have vibrations and sometimes the crimped on ends can loose touch here and there when crimped onto large wire ends (0-6 gauge). When you have one large wire, you can pop a fuse or it wont have enough juice to start, and you say, hey let me check my wire and find the issue and fix it, problem solved and no danger.
now replay that scenario with 2 smaller 6-gauge wires, one gets an intermittent loose connection, and now all the load will fall on the wire with the good connection. Since this wire alone is not rated to run all the things in the car especially the starter, as its overloaded the temps increase you are at a higher risk for melting the insulation and possibly causing a fire hazard when it shorts. I would say if you had to do it at least do dual 4-gauge, but me I prefer one larger than necessary gauge wire and when there is an issue you know right away.
Its like running 2 fuel pumps on a turbo car, when one fails you don't really know until you push the system and the pressure drops where it didn't before and you lean out and blow the motor. except with battery gauges its not as immediately dangerous and well placed fuses could protect you but still there is a chance of one big arc before the fuse blows and that is the one that might burn the car down if the insulation has melted from being overloaded.
basically you are doubling the points of failure by using 2 smaller wires and also creating the situation in that you might not notice something is wrong with one wire until you are melting the second wire. with one wire all of those problems go away, just be sure to use a large fuse and good crimp on terminals, and I would even go as far as to solder them after crimping them on for extra insurance and it will allow it to flow more current as normally the crimp connectors only touch the outer surface area of the wire, whereas soldering it will allow for a better connection that is much harder to vibrate loose.
I had my 2 gauge wire making an intermittent connection at one point, and it would drain my battery in a couple days of sitting. I chased it all over to find out that the crimp on the battery side of the wire was just loose enough to cause that, and after recrimping the connections have not had a problem since, I still need to solder them in though I should listen to my own advice and get around to that.
some run a 0 gauge but according to my calculations at the time, 2 gauge was more than enough to support the current that the two 6 gauge wires up front can give.
I would not recommend running 2 lower gauge wires, and I'll throw my .02c on that as an EE and you can take it for what its worth or not.
In the car you have vibrations and sometimes the crimped on ends can loose touch here and there when crimped onto large wire ends (0-6 gauge). When you have one large wire, you can pop a fuse or it wont have enough juice to start, and you say, hey let me check my wire and find the issue and fix it, problem solved and no danger.
now replay that scenario with 2 smaller 6-gauge wires, one gets an intermittent loose connection, and now all the load will fall on the wire with the good connection. Since this wire alone is not rated to run all the things in the car especially the starter, as its overloaded the temps increase you are at a higher risk for melting the insulation and possibly causing a fire hazard when it shorts. I would say if you had to do it at least do dual 4-gauge, but me I prefer one larger than necessary gauge wire and when there is an issue you know right away.
Its like running 2 fuel pumps on a turbo car, when one fails you don't really know until you push the system and the pressure drops where it didn't before and you lean out and blow the motor. except with battery gauges its not as immediately dangerous and well placed fuses could protect you but still there is a chance of one big arc before the fuse blows and that is the one that might burn the car down if the insulation has melted from being overloaded.
basically you are doubling the points of failure by using 2 smaller wires and also creating the situation in that you might not notice something is wrong with one wire until you are melting the second wire. with one wire all of those problems go away, just be sure to use a large fuse and good crimp on terminals, and I would even go as far as to solder them after crimping them on for extra insurance and it will allow it to flow more current as normally the crimp connectors only touch the outer surface area of the wire, whereas soldering it will allow for a better connection that is much harder to vibrate loose.
I had my 2 gauge wire making an intermittent connection at one point, and it would drain my battery in a couple days of sitting. I chased it all over to find out that the crimp on the battery side of the wire was just loose enough to cause that, and after recrimping the connections have not had a problem since, I still need to solder them in though I should listen to my own advice and get around to that.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 11-02-15 at 01:15 PM.
11-02-15, 03:18 PM
#19
believe it or not that was not the hard part it fit fine in the channel, the stock wire harness that goes in there is rather thick already and there is space next to it. The hard part was squeezing the 2 gauge through the rubber grommet on the firewall. first make a slit with a sharp blade, and then start pushing the wire through and it will keep a decent seal there like before.
some run a 0 gauge but according to my calculations at the time, 2 gauge was more than enough to support the current that the two 6 gauge wires up front can give.
I would not recommend running 2 lower gauge wires, and I'll throw my .02c on that as an EE and you can take it for what its worth or not.
In the car you have vibrations and sometimes the crimped on ends can loose touch here and there when crimped onto large wire ends (0-6 gauge). When you have one large wire, you can pop a fuse or it wont have enough juice to start, and you say, hey let me check my wire and find the issue and fix it, problem solved and no danger.
now replay that scenario with 2 smaller 6-gauge wires, one gets an intermittent loose connection, and now all the load will fall on the wire with the good connection. Since this wire alone is not rated to run all the things in the car especially the starter, as its overloaded the temps increase you are at a higher risk for melting the insulation and possibly causing a fire hazard when it shorts. I would say if you had to do it at least do dual 4-gauge, but me I prefer one larger than necessary gauge wire and when there is an issue you know right away.
Its like running 2 fuel pumps on a turbo car, when one fails you don't really know until you push the system and the pressure drops where it didn't before and you lean out and blow the motor. except with battery gauges its not as immediately dangerous and well placed fuses could protect you but still there is a chance of one big arc before the fuse blows and that is the one that might burn the car down if the insulation has melted from being overloaded.
basically you are doubling the points of failure by using 2 smaller wires and also creating the situation in that you might not notice something is wrong with one wire until you are melting the second wire. with one wire all of those problems go away, just be sure to use a large fuse and good crimp on terminals, and I would even go as far as to solder them after crimping them on for extra insurance and it will allow it to flow more current as normally the crimp connectors only touch the outer surface area of the wire, whereas soldering it will allow for a better connection that is much harder to vibrate loose.
I had my 2 gauge wire making an intermittent connection at one point, and it would drain my battery in a couple days of sitting. I chased it all over to find out that the crimp on the battery side of the wire was just loose enough to cause that, and after recrimping the connections have not had a problem since, I still need to solder them in though I should listen to my own advice and get around to that.
some run a 0 gauge but according to my calculations at the time, 2 gauge was more than enough to support the current that the two 6 gauge wires up front can give.
I would not recommend running 2 lower gauge wires, and I'll throw my .02c on that as an EE and you can take it for what its worth or not.
In the car you have vibrations and sometimes the crimped on ends can loose touch here and there when crimped onto large wire ends (0-6 gauge). When you have one large wire, you can pop a fuse or it wont have enough juice to start, and you say, hey let me check my wire and find the issue and fix it, problem solved and no danger.
now replay that scenario with 2 smaller 6-gauge wires, one gets an intermittent loose connection, and now all the load will fall on the wire with the good connection. Since this wire alone is not rated to run all the things in the car especially the starter, as its overloaded the temps increase you are at a higher risk for melting the insulation and possibly causing a fire hazard when it shorts. I would say if you had to do it at least do dual 4-gauge, but me I prefer one larger than necessary gauge wire and when there is an issue you know right away.
Its like running 2 fuel pumps on a turbo car, when one fails you don't really know until you push the system and the pressure drops where it didn't before and you lean out and blow the motor. except with battery gauges its not as immediately dangerous and well placed fuses could protect you but still there is a chance of one big arc before the fuse blows and that is the one that might burn the car down if the insulation has melted from being overloaded.
basically you are doubling the points of failure by using 2 smaller wires and also creating the situation in that you might not notice something is wrong with one wire until you are melting the second wire. with one wire all of those problems go away, just be sure to use a large fuse and good crimp on terminals, and I would even go as far as to solder them after crimping them on for extra insurance and it will allow it to flow more current as normally the crimp connectors only touch the outer surface area of the wire, whereas soldering it will allow for a better connection that is much harder to vibrate loose.
I had my 2 gauge wire making an intermittent connection at one point, and it would drain my battery in a couple days of sitting. I chased it all over to find out that the crimp on the battery side of the wire was just loose enough to cause that, and after recrimping the connections have not had a problem since, I still need to solder them in though I should listen to my own advice and get around to that.
Having a bad connection reduce a pair of 6 gauge runs to a single effective 6 gauge wire shouldn't pose a fire hazard in an otherwise normal car. The problem with a single 6 gauge wire for us should be voltage drop over distance, rather than heat. The only time we would be possibly causing enough current draw is during starting, which (all other things working correctly) shouldn't happen for that long of a time. Even 5 seconds of cranking (way more than we should see) shouldn't heat up the middle of the wire enough to melt insulation. If there was an issue with a single 6 gauge wire handling the current for the starter, Toyota/Lexus would have issues with their 6 gauge factory wiring. When you make the run that long you worry about voltage drop, which can increase the amperage pulled by the starter some, but still shouldn't be enough for long enough to cause enough heat to melt anything; certainly not in the middle of the wire. Again, we would see issues with the factory wiring if that were the case.
During normal operation of our cars the alternator can put out 100A. Normal charging of the battery probably won't soak up 100A, plus accessories take off that. So, likely, at most you'll see, what? 50-70 Amps? (Really probably more like 30 amps to the battery, at most, but we'll work with the absolute maximums.) Even Crutchfield, ya know, car audio guys, who are notorious for over-gauging wire, say 6 gauge is good for 85 amps over 13 feet. 65 amps over 19 feet. I don't remember exactly how long the run ends up being, but I bought 20 feet and had at least 2 feet left over. I went through the driver's side door molding and driver's side rubber grommet, over the gas tank (zip-tied to the sub wiring) and over to the stock amp location. I'm not sure if going through the passenger side grommet might be slightly shorter.
Anyway, even if there's voltage drop at the higher amperage it'll just take longer for the battery to charge, though it will still eventually get the full charge as the amperage drops and the voltage drop ceases. Remember, it's not the whole system seeing a voltage drop while charging, just the battery while its pulling amperage. Once it stops pulling the heavy amperage during charging the internal resistance of the wire will reduce and the battery will then see the full voltage to top it off.
Sure, you'll be over-pulling amperage during starting, but it won't burn anything, you'll just get the starter turning slower and possibly interior lights flickering. Which you'll notice. If it did short you'd pop your fuse that you installed at the battery.
Now, don't think I'm saying that a single 6 gauge run is fine for this. I certainly do think it should be higher than 6 gauge for that long of a run, be it one or 2 wires, but I do not think that a single 6 gauge (by design or accident) would pose a fire hazard. Actually, a large gauge cable could pose more of a threat to shorting out if it has to squeeze through a tight opening or a sharp turn, especially if you have people sit in your back seats.
11-03-15, 08:17 AM
#20
I see what you are saying but I think alot of people dont have perfect cars that crank up on the first try everytime, especially on a standalone people crank it over enough to kill starters and batteries, I know I have with the aem and the people that relocate their batteries often have heavy engine mods as the reason for doing so (I know some just like to do it), I would be concerned about that run of 6 gauge, I mean 6 gauge would be fine for an amp, but not for the battery even if it works its not enough overhead for that distance for all scenarios. I wouldn't trust what crutchfield rates anything at, but even then running it to 80-90% of what they rate it, is plain risky to me and why every battery relocation thread on the net recommends at least a 2 gauge wire, many go with 0 gauge, but if you think dual 6 gauge will work and be safe if one of them is disconnected then by all means don't let my conventional usage of 2 gauge wire stop you, I just know what I have been running safely for several years now. Do you run with a relocated battery?
There are no tight turns to worry about in this car its a pretty straight shot to the trunk, as I said some run 0 gauge but that is likely overkill. You keep listing reasons why 2 gauge would be worse but they don't apply to this chassis at all. Since you can easily run 2 gauge without any sharp bends or turns and I even wrote how to put it through "rubber grommet" on the firewall (so it has no chance of touching metal through the firewall), I would say there is no actual reason to use 2 runs of 6 gauge instead, unless you just want to be different.
There are no tight turns to worry about in this car its a pretty straight shot to the trunk, as I said some run 0 gauge but that is likely overkill. You keep listing reasons why 2 gauge would be worse but they don't apply to this chassis at all. Since you can easily run 2 gauge without any sharp bends or turns and I even wrote how to put it through "rubber grommet" on the firewall (so it has no chance of touching metal through the firewall), I would say there is no actual reason to use 2 runs of 6 gauge instead, unless you just want to be different.
11-27-15, 04:16 PM
#22
I noticed yesterday that all the OBX 1UZ ITBs on eBay are heavily discounted ($200+ off). I imagine that means they're all from the same seller under different names, and it may just be a Black Friday sale. Plus, there's the barely answered question of whether their quality is any good. But if there's ever a time to experiment with OBX's offering, now would be tough to beat.
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