ok.. just an observation...
07-28-15, 12:01 PM
#46
HAHA...
Hyperbole? I'll wage my bet on the reliability/dependability of the RC F over the competition (M4, C63, and RS5) any day of the week. This is the 2015 JD Power Survey results for dependability based on responses from 34,000 owners:
Highest-Ranked Nameplates and Models Lexus ranks highest in vehicle dependability among all nameplates for a fourth consecutive year, with a score of 89 PP100.
Buick (110 PP100) follows Lexus in the rankings, moving up three rank positions from 2014. Following Buick in the rankings are Toyota (111 PP100), Cadillac (114 PP100), and Honda and Porsche in a tie (116 PP100 each).
Notable rank improvements from 2014 include Scion (121 PP100), improving by 13 rank positions from 2014; Ram (134 PP100), improving 11 rank positions; and Mitsubishi (140 PP100), improving 10 rank positions.
General Motors Company and Toyota Motor Corporation each receive seven segment awards. GM models receiving an award include the Buick LaCrosse; Chevrolet Camaro; Chevrolet Malibu; Chevrolet Silverado HD; GMC Sierra LD; GMC Terrain; and GMC Yukon. Toyota awardees include the Lexus ES; Lexus GX; Scion tC; Scion xB; Scion xD; Toyota Corolla; and Toyota Sienna. The 2015 U.S.
See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release....Qvu7R761.dpuf
Unfortunately German is OFTEN synonymous with lots of "maintenance" and denial of equipment failures. Anyone who has owned or owns a German car knows that. The problem is the dealerships will repeated tell you the frequent "maintenance" is normal for the cars--one big crock of balderdash.
My buddy just bought the Mercedes S600 sedan for $120,000--about mid range price for the variants of this car. They are arguing with him about intermittent problems with the air cooled and heated seats and a visually warped bumper on the car--incredible in my view. All of my friends with Mercedes CONSTANTLY find themselves imbued in arguments with the service managers about defects and failures. My BMW experience was horrendous and not worth reopening in this forum.
In all my years with Lexus and my 4 prior cars, I have never had any major issues, and what issues I found were promptly corrected. This may not be typical of all Lexus dealers, but my dealer is exceptional and I am certain there are many more out there doing the same thing.
No brand is perfect, and I can't speak to Porsche as I have not owned one, but I'll put my bucks down on Japanese any day of the week.
And then there is Italian...
. I love 'em, but...
Hyperbole? I'll wage my bet on the reliability/dependability of the RC F over the competition (M4, C63, and RS5) any day of the week. This is the 2015 JD Power Survey results for dependability based on responses from 34,000 owners:
Highest-Ranked Nameplates and Models Lexus ranks highest in vehicle dependability among all nameplates for a fourth consecutive year, with a score of 89 PP100.
Buick (110 PP100) follows Lexus in the rankings, moving up three rank positions from 2014. Following Buick in the rankings are Toyota (111 PP100), Cadillac (114 PP100), and Honda and Porsche in a tie (116 PP100 each).
Notable rank improvements from 2014 include Scion (121 PP100), improving by 13 rank positions from 2014; Ram (134 PP100), improving 11 rank positions; and Mitsubishi (140 PP100), improving 10 rank positions.
General Motors Company and Toyota Motor Corporation each receive seven segment awards. GM models receiving an award include the Buick LaCrosse; Chevrolet Camaro; Chevrolet Malibu; Chevrolet Silverado HD; GMC Sierra LD; GMC Terrain; and GMC Yukon. Toyota awardees include the Lexus ES; Lexus GX; Scion tC; Scion xB; Scion xD; Toyota Corolla; and Toyota Sienna. The 2015 U.S.
See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release....Qvu7R761.dpuf
Unfortunately German is OFTEN synonymous with lots of "maintenance" and denial of equipment failures. Anyone who has owned or owns a German car knows that. The problem is the dealerships will repeated tell you the frequent "maintenance" is normal for the cars--one big crock of balderdash.
My buddy just bought the Mercedes S600 sedan for $120,000--about mid range price for the variants of this car. They are arguing with him about intermittent problems with the air cooled and heated seats and a visually warped bumper on the car--incredible in my view. All of my friends with Mercedes CONSTANTLY find themselves imbued in arguments with the service managers about defects and failures. My BMW experience was horrendous and not worth reopening in this forum.
In all my years with Lexus and my 4 prior cars, I have never had any major issues, and what issues I found were promptly corrected. This may not be typical of all Lexus dealers, but my dealer is exceptional and I am certain there are many more out there doing the same thing.
No brand is perfect, and I can't speak to Porsche as I have not owned one, but I'll put my bucks down on Japanese any day of the week.
And then there is Italian...
. I love 'em, but...(The study, now in its 26th year, examines problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of 2012 model-year vehicles. - See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release....zaGSkC7S.dpuf)
Any LINKS specific to why the M4 is less reliable than the RCF? Statement gets posted a million times with nothing to substantiate it. It is not entirely impossible that BMW has fixed their issues and Lexus, while stepping into a new arena has just started down its own path of 'oh crap'. "My friend this, my friend that, my 4 cars" does not an argument make.
07-28-15, 12:39 PM
#47
A post that means absolutely nothing with regards to this RCF conversation.
(The study, now in its 26th year, examines problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of 2012 model-year vehicles. - See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release....zaGSkC7S.dpuf)
Any LINKS specific to why the M4 is less reliable than the RCF? Statement gets posted a million times with nothing to substantiate it. It is not entirely impossible that BMW has fixed their issues and Lexus, while stepping into a new arena has just started down its own path of 'oh crap'. "My friend this, my friend that, my 4 cars" does not an argument make.
(The study, now in its 26th year, examines problems experienced during the past 12 months by original owners of 2012 model-year vehicles. - See more at: http://www.jdpower.com/press-release....zaGSkC7S.dpuf)
Any LINKS specific to why the M4 is less reliable than the RCF? Statement gets posted a million times with nothing to substantiate it. It is not entirely impossible that BMW has fixed their issues and Lexus, while stepping into a new arena has just started down its own path of 'oh crap'. "My friend this, my friend that, my 4 cars" does not an argument make.
07-28-15, 12:41 PM
#48
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BMW engines are good, it's the other small stuff that gets annoying after a while.
My ex BMW 330 never had engine or gearbox problems... but, the window regulators failed 4 times, the clutch fan failed twice causing the car to overheat, the rear tail lights get burned fuses for some reasons (twice), and the stupid rattles here and there in the interior. Also, the a/c is horrible, it does not cool enough + failed twice on me (condenser inside the dashboard) 2 a/c vents pushed out cool air and the other 2 hot air.
Benz is also notorious for failing suspensions, we had a couple where one side of the suspension just drops.
In the past we had a 1998 lexus LS400, a 2001 Lexus LS430, and a 2012 toyota FJ cruiser. The cars were bulletproof, not once was the car in the dealer for any work other than service and we live in very very hard climates (hell, it's 45 deg celcius right now at night with very high humidity levels)
I also think the best of the german bunch is porsche... they really know how to build bulletproof cars, we had numerous porsches what no problems at all except for a 2012 Cayenne GTS with a broken engine.
Someone also mentioned failing fuel pumps on RCF, till this day I have no heard of that issue on a RCF in my country. I don't know, maybe gulf spec RCFs have a different fuel pump? *touch wood*
My ex BMW 330 never had engine or gearbox problems... but, the window regulators failed 4 times, the clutch fan failed twice causing the car to overheat, the rear tail lights get burned fuses for some reasons (twice), and the stupid rattles here and there in the interior. Also, the a/c is horrible, it does not cool enough + failed twice on me (condenser inside the dashboard) 2 a/c vents pushed out cool air and the other 2 hot air.
Benz is also notorious for failing suspensions, we had a couple where one side of the suspension just drops.
In the past we had a 1998 lexus LS400, a 2001 Lexus LS430, and a 2012 toyota FJ cruiser. The cars were bulletproof, not once was the car in the dealer for any work other than service and we live in very very hard climates (hell, it's 45 deg celcius right now at night with very high humidity levels)
I also think the best of the german bunch is porsche... they really know how to build bulletproof cars, we had numerous porsches what no problems at all except for a 2012 Cayenne GTS with a broken engine.
Someone also mentioned failing fuel pumps on RCF, till this day I have no heard of that issue on a RCF in my country. I don't know, maybe gulf spec RCFs have a different fuel pump? *touch wood*
07-28-15, 01:30 PM
#49
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Here in bay area, northern California, one of strongholds of Lexus sales, I have seen just 2 RCF period in the entire year of 2015 so far where there are 2 or more M3/M4 daily. Not hard to see the why BMW has much higher residuals after 3 years because of the demands.
I agree Lexus has been problem free, my old SC430 still drives like a champ today after 12 years, but I think BMW has been picking up on that department as well. Time will tell.
I agree Lexus has been problem free, my old SC430 still drives like a champ today after 12 years, but I think BMW has been picking up on that department as well. Time will tell.
07-28-15, 02:43 PM
#50
here in socal, which is another huge area on any luxury cars, i have only seen 1 rcf on the road (thank god it's orange otherwise i might have missed it as well). this is compared to the new m3/m4 which i see pretty much every day.
sales of m3/m4 have come down. i start to see more inventory at dealerships, though they still seem to go. i wouldn't want to risk talking too much about rcf inventory because that seems to get to the sensitive side of some members, but i know some big dealerships with a lot of rcf in the lot untouched.
i am interested to see how the resale will be on the rcf in the coming years. isf resale wasn't too good but later on picked up.
for bmw and mb, in general they have very strong engines. if anything, the early years 3.0l turbo was probably the disaster. but if we look at the e9x v8, that thing is very strong. tranny is a different story, the dct can be quite a fun project. same with mb, their engines are in general very strong (either the 55 or the 63). problems with those brands are usually on the other components like electronics or suspensions. on that end, i think lexus is better though not golden. don't get me started on the 06-10 navigation screen
sales of m3/m4 have come down. i start to see more inventory at dealerships, though they still seem to go. i wouldn't want to risk talking too much about rcf inventory because that seems to get to the sensitive side of some members, but i know some big dealerships with a lot of rcf in the lot untouched.
i am interested to see how the resale will be on the rcf in the coming years. isf resale wasn't too good but later on picked up.
for bmw and mb, in general they have very strong engines. if anything, the early years 3.0l turbo was probably the disaster. but if we look at the e9x v8, that thing is very strong. tranny is a different story, the dct can be quite a fun project. same with mb, their engines are in general very strong (either the 55 or the 63). problems with those brands are usually on the other components like electronics or suspensions. on that end, i think lexus is better though not golden. don't get me started on the 06-10 navigation screen
07-30-15, 10:48 AM
#51
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1. Lexus 
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Lexus is at the top of this list. Not only did it receive the highest score for reliability, but its cars performed admirably in the road test, scoring a 76. Lexus has always made reliable cars, but in recent years, it’s focused on making cars that handle and perform better as well. That effort is paying off, giving Lexus a total score of 78.
10. BMW
Described as "responsive, comfortable, and fuel-efficient" by Consumer Reports, BMW just made the top ten brands, ranking at No. 10. The German automaker received an overall score of 66, road test score of 82 and a middle reliability rating.
21. Mercedes-Benz
German automaker Mercedes-Benz received an overall score of 56, a road test score of 81 and a low reliability rating, putting it at No. 21 on the best brands list. Consumer Reports criticized the company for a lack of consistency between some models, such as the CLA which as a "harsh ride and unrefined demeanor," making it seem like Mercedes "mailed it in."
Link: http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...ota-1.10387053
Simply put, BMW has very attractive lease options. That's why 90% of people lease BMW. But as for me, I don't own a business. I have nothing to write off, nothing to claim. So I pick "most reliable" over light weight, Turbo, 90's looking cars any days!
Perhaps unsurprisingly, Lexus is at the top of this list. Not only did it receive the highest score for reliability, but its cars performed admirably in the road test, scoring a 76. Lexus has always made reliable cars, but in recent years, it’s focused on making cars that handle and perform better as well. That effort is paying off, giving Lexus a total score of 78.
10. BMW
Described as "responsive, comfortable, and fuel-efficient" by Consumer Reports, BMW just made the top ten brands, ranking at No. 10. The German automaker received an overall score of 66, road test score of 82 and a middle reliability rating.
21. Mercedes-Benz
German automaker Mercedes-Benz received an overall score of 56, a road test score of 81 and a low reliability rating, putting it at No. 21 on the best brands list. Consumer Reports criticized the company for a lack of consistency between some models, such as the CLA which as a "harsh ride and unrefined demeanor," making it seem like Mercedes "mailed it in."
Link: http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/c...ota-1.10387053
Simply put, BMW has very attractive lease options. That's why 90% of people lease BMW. But as for me, I don't own a business. I have nothing to write off, nothing to claim. So I pick "most reliable" over light weight, Turbo, 90's looking cars any days!
07-31-15, 05:06 PM
#52
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I don't always believe in leases, but when I do its BMW.
08-01-15, 10:58 AM
#53
Lexus Test Driver
M4 36 month kease;
10k miles - 61% residual
12k miles - 60% residual
15k miles - 58% residual
.00130 Money Factor
RC F 36 month lease:
10k miles - 59% residual
12k miles - 58% residual
15k miles - 56% residual
.00065 Money Factor
Monthly payment in Tennessee for 36 month, 12 miles lease based on $ 80,000 MSRP and paying $ 80,000:
M4 $ 1,155.00
RC F $ 1,112.00
Throw in the fact you can perhaps get a bigger discount on RC F, the lease becomes an even better deal on the RC F.
10k miles - 61% residual
12k miles - 60% residual
15k miles - 58% residual
.00130 Money Factor
RC F 36 month lease:
10k miles - 59% residual
12k miles - 58% residual
15k miles - 56% residual
.00065 Money Factor
Monthly payment in Tennessee for 36 month, 12 miles lease based on $ 80,000 MSRP and paying $ 80,000:
M4 $ 1,155.00
RC F $ 1,112.00
Throw in the fact you can perhaps get a bigger discount on RC F, the lease becomes an even better deal on the RC F.
08-01-15, 11:40 AM
#54
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M4 36 month kease;
10k miles - 61% residual
12k miles - 60% residual
15k miles - 58% residual
.00130 Money Factor
RC F 36 month lease:
10k miles - 59% residual
12k miles - 58% residual
15k miles - 56% residual
.00065 Money Factor
Monthly payment in Tennessee for 36 month, 12 miles lease based on $ 80,000 MSRP and paying $ 80,000:
M4 $ 1,155.00
RC F $ 1,112.00
Throw in the fact you can perhaps get a bigger discount on RC F, the lease becomes an even better deal on the RC F.
10k miles - 61% residual
12k miles - 60% residual
15k miles - 58% residual
.00130 Money Factor
RC F 36 month lease:
10k miles - 59% residual
12k miles - 58% residual
15k miles - 56% residual
.00065 Money Factor
Monthly payment in Tennessee for 36 month, 12 miles lease based on $ 80,000 MSRP and paying $ 80,000:
M4 $ 1,155.00
RC F $ 1,112.00
Throw in the fact you can perhaps get a bigger discount on RC F, the lease becomes an even better deal on the RC F.
08-01-15, 01:25 PM
#55
Lexus Test Driver
Lowest quote I got on a $74,000 rcf was $1089 36 months 12k miles and $1199 on a $80,000 carbon fiber 36 months 12k. Obviously one has ml radio and no sunroof but other has sunroof and no ml, don't know which one to go with! Same colors ultra white red interior. Which one would you go with? $1089 sounds better then $1200....
What money factor were you quoted? If you have top tier credit, keep negotiating on it until you get it close to base.
Man, I dunno. I personally like carbon on black as I don't like the huge contract with lighter colors. I think the white with red interior is awesome. Mark Levinson is not a big deal to me. I do like having a sunroof.
08-01-15, 02:29 PM
#56
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I plugged the numbers into Edmonds lease calculator so the taxes might not be exactly correct. The base numbers predicted upon residual and money factor would be the same regardless. You state may also have different taxes and etc.
What money factor were you quoted? If you have top tier credit, keep negotiating on it until you get it close to base.
Man, I dunno. I personally like carbon on black as I don't like the huge contract with lighter colors. I think the white with red interior is awesome. Mark Levinson is not a big deal to me. I do like having a sunroof.
What money factor were you quoted? If you have top tier credit, keep negotiating on it until you get it close to base.
Man, I dunno. I personally like carbon on black as I don't like the huge contract with lighter colors. I think the white with red interior is awesome. Mark Levinson is not a big deal to me. I do like having a sunroof.
