TLDriver

iTrader: (4)

I have an obd2 car. My end goal will be about 500-600 hp. Still don't know what type of turbo I am going to be getting I just have that as an end result.
I have read on how some members that have an obd1 go with a ems but a lot of the obd2 claim and use the fic. I just haven't got an answer on what their final hp is. I know my car isn't ready for the power the compression isn't low enough and the deal goes on.... Bottom line is I know the hardware, I am just lost with the software side to it. Any pointers on this one? Thanks. I have been on clubna-t looking at the piggy back and AEM Fic part to it but I am still lost.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

The thing with the AEM FIC is that people use it for the VVTI in the newer model heads, also for the fact that it is very simple (which isn't necessarily a good thing). Any FIC is not worth the money imho. Altering signals gets you nowhere fast, especially if you are trying to tune in closed loop mode. Granted there are alot of people that use it and say it works just fine. Problem is there aren't a whole lot of options with VVTI as compared to non VVTI motors. The AEM FIC has the controller for it, and with the ability to retard timing VS boost, it makes it a very popular item for the price going from N/A to boost. So it gives you the ability to get it running under boost and kind of get you where you need to be, but... the tune you're gonna get out of it is just really broad. I just hate the idea of tricking the fuel signal to guess at approx. what fuel delivery should be at at a particular level.

TLDriver

iTrader: (4)

So the FIC will work... but not the greatest because of it how it guesses and tricks the stock ecu.
Hmm so I guess I might have to start looking into all these electronics a little better.
Any suggestions on what to look for? or what to stay away from? Some people say AEM some say MAPECU and one said motec are they all different do to some functions VS others? It almost seems like the ongoing AMD VS Intel rivalry with some of these EMS.

evileagle

2jzlex just doesnt like the concept of a piggyback.....

piggybacks work great for what they are....a simple way to tune a car with semi-limited results. There are plenty of people running even weaker piggybacks with awesome results. If your shooting for the 500hp mark, in essence all you will need is control of timing (if possible) and obviously fuel. Those two things can take you a long long way. After a while, once you start running too large of an injector, "tricking" your ecu wont be as easy and there will be a point where it simply wont work anymore.

With that said, for your goals, a piggyback will do just fine. In out cars, there is a big price difference between a 500hp car and a 600 hp car. people seem to be able to get to around the 500hp mark quite easily, but after that, it gets alot tougher and certains measures like a full standalone will eventually become necessary....


Hope this helps

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much yeah. Piggybacks are kind of like a band-aid to me. Now I am running the MAP ECU 2 with the narrowband 02 unplugged which is about as close to a stand alone as you can get, and I still wish I could go with a PFC, absolutely love that system. Piggybacks can work well yes, but remember that it will never be anywhere close to what it could be with a standalone. In addition, you buy a stand alone once, you keep it for everything you will possibly ever do to that motor in the future, and you can adjust whatever you wish without having to fight the stocker or getting so tangled up in all of your tricks on the OEM ECU that you end up chaising your tail. Not to mention all of the splicing, bleh.

TL whatever you decide to do just make sure it has the capability to control your VVTI.

lexforlife

iTrader: (7)

piggyback = chasing your tail

i have tried map ecu and man it drove me crazy .. having a boosted car just run okay in my book is a recipe for kaboom

the tune would appear to be fine one day then the next day idle would be crappy or cars pulling timing like crazy

relying on knock sensors to pull timing is not the best idea in that 500 hp + goal of yours

imo 400 and under piggyback is great but once you are looking close to 500 and up timing is critical for you are bound to be running upwards of 20psi of boost

na ecu know nothing above positive pressure so for the stock ecu to make adjustments safely its alot of guess work gte ecu at least have some timing and fuel maps for positive pressures (boost) so you get away with simply things like a safc controller or map ecu


on obdII tuning close loop is like trying to have sex with beyonce it aint going to happen or at least consistently .. i used to have to drive around with my laptop to make small changes as they occured


bottom line if you are spending good money to reach your hp goal , spend the extra and go standalone and do it right


i did and went aem ems had it tuned to perfection by aem tuner and car runs stronger safer and better then stock and i get 24mpg on hwy with a/c on

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

I agree with just about everything you said except this. It can be done, you have to unplug the stock narrowband 02 sensor. There is no feedback to the ECU to help regulate lamba. So the fuel values that you put in are what is used and the OEM ECU does not fight your changes because it has nothing to reference from.

TLDriver

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys this is starting to clear somethings up. I still don't know what route I will go... if I settle for 400 hp and go with a piggy back or go higher HP with a stand alone. If I go stand alone still don't know what to look for. As for a Piggy back no one has said that AEM FIC wont work seems to be a pretty good piggy back from all the feed back.
Any way you guys word it, I understand this:
Piggy back: Can work for some people but limitations on HP and how accurate you can tune your car. A lot of power car can be harder to tune and worst case car = boom.

Stand alone: More money, does more, tune it accurately and correctly (depending on tuner) and wont be a limited on timing and some other options.

I don't know how the FIC would help me if I'm not running VVTI. Does that change anything?

What are the things too look for in a stand alone?

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

For the most part you've got it figured out sounds like!

My apologies, since you said OBDII I automatically assumed you were VVTI which isn't the case. Yes it does change things because now you aren't limited in your options as far as needing the VVTI control. You can pretty much run any system you want. You're to the point where it just comes down to personal preference. I would suggest the MAP ECU 2 for a piggy back. Why? Because it is the closest thing you can get to a stand alone for the price. Other than that, wait and go with a stand alone. Just my thoughts.

TLDriver

iTrader: (4)

I might have to keep an eye out for a MAP ECU2 and when one pops out on the market I might have to just get it.

talltrini1

2JZlex, the FIC does NOT control the VVTi. It adjusts fuel, retards timing only, and can clamp MAF voltage. The only way to control VVTi with a piggyback is with a Camcon, AFAIK. The FIC's main advantage is that is is designed to work with OBD2

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

I didn't mean for it to come across that way, I meant that it will allow you to tune your ignition alongside the VVTI, not directly influencing it's function. Apologies for the confusion.

talltrini1

No worries. I'd just hate to see someone buy it and then post "hey, I can't adjust my VVTi!"

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

On this forum, it would definately happen too.