Brendon

iTrader: (1)

ok, so yesterday I got my exhaust done. Originally I had just bought a pair of rod millen magnaflows a couple weeks ago and they were sitting in my trunk. I tired bolting them on myself, but the old mufflers' bolts were pretty rusted on so I went to Monro, but they wouldn't even touch it for liability bs. The guy at monro suggested the shop that I eventually went to.

Basically the new setup I got is dual 2.5" pipping running all the way from the first two cats. He explained to me that the 3rd cat was in there for California's stricter emissions and that its unneccessary outside of CA. Unfortunately I was acting on impulse at the time and told him to just do the dual pipes (it was only $300!). From what I've read online, there seems to be a bit of truth to this, at least according to 4x4wire.com. I'm just wondering the opinion of everyone out here.

Also, yesterday while I was driving with my friends (they were following behind me). After, they told me that my exhaust smelled funny. Again I read up on this matter and some sites say that with new exhaust, it takes a couple of days for the welding fumes and exhaust coating to burn off. Is this true?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't worry about it... however, I must tell you it is a federal offense to disable or remove an emissions related device from a car... fines are hefty both for the owner of the car and much more so for the shop that did the work...

that being said, I never had even a primary cat on any of my turbo talons...

HELLAFLUSH

iTrader: (1)

That smell should go away within a day max. Did you give him a cat? Emission laws vary from state to state.

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

absolutely, however, the federal governments rules apply, even if the states rules do not have provisions for that legal issue...

from the EPA's website:

"The Clean Air Act was amended November 15th, 1990. Several of the changes in the Amendments affect the automotive repair & service industry directly. These changes include the expansion of the tampering prohibition to include private individuals and the prohibition against the manufacture,
installation, sale or offering for sale of any part or component used on any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine where a principal effect is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any emission control device or element of design of any emission control system."

So, removing a cat, pre-cat, even an EGR valve, is against federal law, irregardless what the state says...

I'm not saying everyone here has to be perfect, but it seems the original poster is not aware of the law and should know the legality of it...

I might add that aftermarket parts manufacturers get around this by stating "for off road use only"

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

here's some more info:

"In addition to federal law, forty-five out of the fifty
States also have statutes or regulations which prohibit tampering
with the pollution control equipment on motor vehicles or driving
or selling such vehicles. Thus, vehicle owners who tamper with
their own vehicles may be subject to substantial penalties under
both federal and State law.

The only circumstances in which a person would be allowed to
remove a converter is if the vehicle is being shipped overseas to
an area where unleaded gasoline is not generally available.
(Vehicles traveling to Canada or Mexico are not eligible for this
exemption.) In this instance the vehicle owner must have a
letter from the EPA specifically authorizing the converter
removal from the vehicle in question."

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resour...hsysrepair.pdf

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

Brendon

iTrader: (1)

It seems strange that the feds would ban ALL mods to the exhaust, especially if some of those mods actually reduce emissions, such as replacing an older 2-way cat with a 3 way, or performing an engine swap to a more modern engine which produces less emissions. What about if I had two secondary cats installed? Would it still be considered illegal, even though it would be the same setup as before with just as much, if not more, harmful emissions being reduced?

What about for people who convert their cars to battery electric power? They obviously remove their exhaust, does that mean the EPA would fine them?

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

Are you 100% sure that the mod would reduce emissions?

When the EPA certifies a car, they know it is within their reasonable and prudent limits. When you modify a cars exhaust or emissions system, there is no way for the EPA to know if what you have done is still within their limits without going through costly testing. If you read the actual law, there are provisions for modifications, however, it also states that the system must be tested by the EPA's laboratory to ensure that it still meets the OE spec.

How many people truly convert their entire vehicle to battery power? Besides the obvious low emissions, a vehicle such as that, is now a custom built vehicle and will have to re-title itself as a kit car, or a home built car.

Also, if you read that page I posted, there are no laws against replacing an older engine with a newer engine, so long as the emissions controls that existed on the older engine are still present on the newer engine. One example would be putting a 1996 Mustang 4.8L into a 1990 fox body. It works, it's an upgrade in the emissions sense, however, if the 1990 had EGR, then the 1996 motor must have EGR. You, however, cannot go the other way. Legally, you cannot put a 1990 5.0 into a 1996 Mustang - this is considered older technology and is not allowed.

As far as replacing a 2 way Cat with a 3 way Cat, sure - in theory, it should be cleaner when the exhaust comes out, but again, we're talking theory here, and the EPA doesn't care about theory, they care about tried and proven numbers. However, if your old 2-way Cat is no longer doing its job, you can replace it with a 3 way Cat legally, but only once the original unit fails to perform its intended purpose.

Brendon

iTrader: (1)

I got one more question. Will extra catalytic converters make my car's exhaust cleaner? I'm leaning towards having 2 more cats installed by my next inspection 11 months from now in order to suplement the original cat I removed. That would mean there would be 4 cats all together, 2 on each side at the front and in the middle. The inspection guys and the state definately couldn't complain about that, but would it just be overkill and unneccessary, or would it actually make a difference?