Saw an LS460 tonight...
#16
Lexus Test Driver
I think that you can tell that the ES and the LS are related (in the same family) but they clearly don't look like the same car. Also, I think that the best part of the LS is the inside and the LS dominates almost the entire car market with its incredible interior!
#17
Most people who can afford cars in this class wouldn't care much about ergonomics or the price tag. They're paying higher insurance and maintenance costs just to park their car in the garage. They wouldn't care much about burning extra fuel just because their car doesn't cut through air as well as others.
As for the price, did you know that the LS 460 customer demographics has a yearly salary of $250,000+ ? A majority of people in that customer base wouldn't consider the price tag as one of the top factors in their purchasing decision.
Customer Service is an issue that revolves AROUND the car, not the car itself and that can be corrected over time.
I agree about the build quality point. But that's also something that can be corrected as well.
The most difficult thing to perfect in designing a car is the performance and handling. That requires top engineering. Benz and BMW have over 60+ years of experience in this department. Think about all those records the engineers can go over in HQ and learn from the company's history archive in engineering.
I agree the IS and GS are a huge leap forward and they're hot on BMW's heels. But BMW and Benz aren't stupid either. They'll try their best to stay one step ahead of Lexus.
Remember when the IS 350 came out with specs that claimed 5.5 seconds to 60MPH and we all laughed at BMW? The BMW 330i at that time was spec'd at 6.5 seconds or so. 2 years later, the new 2007 BMW 335i rockets to 60MPH in 4.8 seconds according to Car and Driver. That's M3 class. I know it's butt ugly, but again that's a person's opinion. It's unreliable as Paris Hilton's IQ level, that I agree.
The new M3 is going to be even faster. Hopefully the IS 500 can keep up.
My main point is, Lexus HAS to get performance and handling on par with the Euros. They should also be less conservative in styling. If they don't and assuming BMW and Benz fix their reliability and quality issues, it's just going to make things harder down the road.
#18
Lexus Test Driver
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Customer Service is an issue that revolves AROUND the car, not the car itself and that can be corrected over time.
My main point is, Lexus HAS to get performance and handling on par with the Euros.
They should also be less conservative in styling. If they don't and assuming BMW and Benz fix their reliability and quality issues, it's just going to make things harder down the road.
BTW, not trying to be argumentative here -- just enjoying a good discussion.
#19
Not sure what you are exactly saying, but I can tell you that I live in a small neighborhood with a lot of modestly wealthy retired people, and several of them have some type of Lexus, along with a couple of Infinity owners. I'd say that I've happened to talk with 10-12 of them about cars over the past couple years and practically EVERY one of them used to drive MBs, BMWs, or Jaguars (multiple cars over the years), but now they drive the Lexus or Infinity. In pretty much every case they said that the poor reliabiltiy drove them to try the Lexus, and now the quality of the Lexus keeps them in it.
BTW, not trying to be argumentative here -- just enjoying a good discussion.
BTW, not trying to be argumentative here -- just enjoying a good discussion.
I agree about those relibility issues. But when you bring in the AMG or Porsche product lines, Lexus doesn't hold a candle in the performance category.
As you've pointed out, performance and handling also seems to be another "personal preference."
I mean change their style to the point it really "turns heads"; Design a car that's like a moving eyeball magnet. Seeing a Mercedes-Benz SL550 or CLS stroll down the road still makes me drool.
#20
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That's why I'm worried about Lexus. They've got to design their cars in a style that stands out more. The only thing Lexus has over Benz is their reliability ratings.
Performance, handling are still dominated by Benz and BMW. Even resale value is better.
What if Mercedes-Benz finally got their reliability issues straight?
Lexus is going to have some trouble.
Performance, handling are still dominated by Benz and BMW. Even resale value is better.
What if Mercedes-Benz finally got their reliability issues straight?
Lexus is going to have some trouble.
resale value better with benz bmw ? are u on crack ?
#21
That's why I'm worried about Lexus. They've got to design their cars in a style that stands out more. The only thing Lexus has over Benz is their reliability ratings.
Performance, handling are still dominated by Benz and BMW. Even resale value is better.
What if Mercedes-Benz finally got their reliability issues straight?
Lexus is going to have some trouble.
Performance, handling are still dominated by Benz and BMW. Even resale value is better.
What if Mercedes-Benz finally got their reliability issues straight?
Lexus is going to have some trouble.
#23
Lexus Test Driver
#24
A performance MB car isn't a E-Class, unless you're talking E55 AMG.
You guys have to buy the right Mercedes depending on what kind of car you're looking for. Any luxury SUV or 4 door sedan I'm getting has to start with a Lexus.
But for a luxury convertible, this is the one to go.
#25
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I think lexus-toyota will be comin up with a all out performance sports car very soon. Their last super performance car was the supra.
I can't even imagine how insane their next sports car will be.
their first prority was for the meat and potatoes (Scion, camry, LS, ES, GS, corolla, IS, ETC). Their performance car will be straight up gravy. You can bet on that.
I know for a fact toyota is salivating to take some of that 350z market share.
I can't even imagine how insane their next sports car will be.
their first prority was for the meat and potatoes (Scion, camry, LS, ES, GS, corolla, IS, ETC). Their performance car will be straight up gravy. You can bet on that.
I know for a fact toyota is salivating to take some of that 350z market share.
#26
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I never had problems distinguishing them either even from far away, for those that do, it just tells me that they are people that doesn't know too much about cars anyway, they never paid enough attention to them to be able to tell them apart. The problem is many people falls into this category, & some car owners feel the need to impress these people.
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