lr2017

Hello folks, still searching for my LS, pinging again with two choices I recently came across
i) '04 LS430 Ultra 114k mi listed with Lexus Dealer for $11.3k, timing belt water pump replaced (but accident seen on Carfax, no mention of air bag deployed)
ii) '09 LS460 134k listed with Toyota dealer for $14k, timing belt and water pump changed per Lexus records (I thought it had timing chain not belt), no accident, 2 owners
comes with 90 days $0 deductible extended warranty

Appreciate your feedback to make a selection, any tips on negotiations or what to be look for or avoid in getting the deals.
Thank you.

2KHarrier

That does seem strange, as the 09 had a chain. Unless there was an issue with a tensioner or something and they decided to swap the chain out. I'm still partial to the 430. Keep in mind the adjustable suspension will need attention at some point on that 2004 UL. I would also ensure the TSB for the transmission has been accomplished, if the car falls into that age range.

Johnhav430

I feel a little distrustful when things don't add up. If someone slipped and referred to a chain as a belt, a shock as a strut, etc., I walk away. Shocks and struts are not the same. When you're in the business, you don't slip up and refer to one as another. I felt leery when that "best LS430 in the western hemisphere" showed up at Cherry Hill, asking 17.9 with 37k, from a Lexus dealer. There were several responses that even though the Carfax had 5 owners, it didn't have 5 owners, those were the dealers taking ownership. imho, inconsistency = walk away....

On this particular question, I would avoid the UL for the air suspension repair costs alone, but that's just me. From the prices I see online, there's no price break so to speak because that expensive repair is needed at some point. It's like selling a beautiful used 745i for $8k, when it's only x miles away from a $10k repair. In this case it's not $10k on the Lexus, but I hear it's over $4k....

Junglequac

I actually owned a 2005 LS 430 Ultra Luxury prior to my LS460 so this is an interesting thread to me and I will be quite interested to see which way you go.

Shockingly good price on the 460 even with it having highish miles. I cannot recommend highly enough going to Lexus's owners site to see about the "timing belt" replacement as no LS 460 has a timing belt. And if that is where you saw a timing belt replacement, I would call the dealer which performed the work as it names no sense, My best guess would be that they replaced the Serpentine Belt along with the Water Pump.

Indeed with it having air shocks, unless they have already been replaced by the PO, you should set aside money for the replacement for all 4 shocks. I would recommend the same for conventional shocks as well at that mileage.

I did not look at where your location states, but hopefully there is a different Lexus dealer from the one that has the 430 as it will all but eliminate any conflict of interest. If there is not another Lexus dealer within 50 miles, there is a better than decent shot that there is a decent indy shop that ideally specializes in Lexus//Toyota. The dream scenario would be if the lead tech was factory trained on the LS 460.

If the 460 checks out, for that little difference in money, I would jump on it. Usually, 460's at that price have close to or over 200,000 miles so that really is a legit deal at 134,000 miles. I paid $16,500 for my 2007 that had 87,000 miles and was a one owner with an absolutely perfect service history and the PO even used full synthetic every 5000 miles.

I do not see any mention on what options are on the 2009. Does it have the Mark Levinson system and navigation? That package and intuitive parking (parking sensors not the auto parking feature0 are must haves. The ML system in the 460i is a major upgrade as they switched to Class D or what many call switching amplifiers.

The ML system in the 460 is the first Mark Levinson system in a Lexus that is worthy of the exulted place that Mark Levinson stands in the home audio arena. There are a myriad of comparisons of the 460's ML system compared to the Bowers and Wilkens (B&W) in the Jaguar, the Harman Kardon in the BMW, B&O in the Audi, Lexicon in the Genesis, and even the Burmeister in the Mercedes and I cannot remember one where the 460's ML Reference system does not come out ahead.

If the 460 comes out with any major issues after having a PPI (pre purchase inspection), I would jump in it. At that price, it is not going to depreciate much more if at all for several years. My guess is that they have had the 460 for over 90 days in which case they need it gone due to the floor plan as each spot for a car for sale means they need to turn and burn it so that they can have another car in that spot that will yield a higher profit margin. Dealers do not get rich off of selling new Lexii. They do from the Service Dept and used car sales.

Johnhav430

Excellent advice. I will admit up front, I missed some things on my used purchase--door actuator not functioning at all, and front brakes pulsating. Luckily, the dealer that I purchased from made good on those. Pretty confident that if not a new car dealer, they would have said sorry, caveat emptor.

In perusing this forum prior, I did not come across the LCA bushings. That is a $1,400 job at the dealer, and one would think virtually all 3rd gens which have not had it performed, would need it, from age. Then thanks to more ideas on the forum, get only the OEM rear bushings and have them pressed in...$400 tops, mid to high $300's.

Good point on the conventional shocks, they are imho more expensive than one would think, which is why you also see Monroe thrown around (I don't like their products myself but used them for hood and trunk struts).....it just pays to know how much things cost to repair. Sellers often downplay them, but I think some of it has to come out of their selling price....

lr2017

Thank you to all those who replied, always very valuable insight and comments! I looked at the record on Lexus website again and it is Lexus of Woodland in CA record
indeed reading, "Perform 90000 mile service, repl oil&filt, air filt, repl diff fluid, flush trans, repl cool, repl timing belt, bal&rot tires & compl insp of car" done at 91417 mi in Nov'12. I am going to go see both cars today.

lr2017

If I decided with either of the cars, will buying extended warranty make sense? will it cover the suspension replacement cost? (I can't think why a warranty would cover replacement of a worn out part). Also on LS430 I am looking at the 2nd owner always took it to a non-Lexus repair shop so no records found on Lexus website but per CarFax it reads "timing belt idler pulley/bearing replace", is that the same as timing belt ? Thanks.

Johnhav430

That does sound like the timing belt job, the entire job has the belt, water pump, idler, tensioner pulley, and tensioner...hard to know if they did the pump or not from the description....I'm reading the description as if they omitted commas...timing belt, idler pulley/bearing....be nicer to see the invoice to know for sure....

I would check out the lower control arm rear bushings. This is the front right. If you are looking under, behind the front right wheel, you see this.



If not replaced before, you'll see cracks, even tears. I think that I had a 60-65 mph vibration that went away when these were replaced. If you buy the parts and have an indie put them in, $350-$400. The dealer replaces the entire arm, and everyone says you don't need this because the front smaller bushing doesn't go bad, and that's $1400.

This is the back



It would be good to get the car up to 65 mph and see if there are any vibrations, is the wheel straight, if you gently brake any pulsations?

Also, lock and unlock the doors with the switch, and make sure all 4 doors are responding (driver's is the most likely to have an issue)...

Try the rear sunshade, it may not work...mine did not....just went up on one side and no curtain...

Another thing to see is if there is any coolant in the reservoir, it's often neglected as the reservoir is under the plastic air intake, and it has to be removed to add, so it tends to evaporate over time...the window is viewed from the back, looking towards the front...

How about the side mirrors, tendency for the switch to not act right--once you program your settings, don't need to use the switch anymore...

How about the tilt/telescope wheel, each motor is like $300 a piece....

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls-...ml#post4659045

I just think that any defects should be deducted from the selling price...maybe not at the full retail price of the repair, but maybe 40-50%?

Good luck!

p.s. not sure about an extended warranty, didn't know it could be purchased on a car this old...but generally they are not worth it...

lr2017

The car has been in recon with Lexus dealer, he called me today and said he just replaced timing belt, I asked him the car had a timing belt job done at 90k, he said he did not know (I don't blame him, since the mention of timing belt job is in carfax as the prior owner never took it to lexus dealer, but did regular maintenance)..Interesting. I will check for lower control arm busing, door actuators and shading like you mentioned. Thanks very much!

the other toyota dealer selling 09 LS 460 called and said he was willing to give a 'deal' (listed for $14k) if I was really interested so I figure he will shave off a few hundreds from the listing price, but at this point I am keeping this as my 2nd option. 1st option being the LS 430.

Johnhav430

I know we're getting super detailed, but I like an indie's timing belt job because in addition to the belt and water pump, they will do the tensioner pulley, idler pulley, and tensioner (usually). I think, the dealer does not do those 3 because they are good to "every other" timing belt job, but I could be wrong.

When I was inquiring on a '05 at a Lexus dealer online, immediately, the dealership's "concierge" emailed me the internal work order of what they did after they took in the car. It showed RF shock, and RR shock? The right side, front and rear, huh? It also showed the p/n for 4 new Dunlop SP5000's. When I got there to look, there were no SP5000's on the car, but made in China no name brand tires. I found this weird for a dealership, but it's all about $$$$. The right side was scraped, there was black paint on the RR rim, the engine cover was cracked, and the car wouldn't start. Yep, we were outta there!! The car had 89k and timing belt hadn't been done, and the next day they called and said yes, they would be willing to do it at the price the car was listed at. Nein danke!!

edit looking back, I almost wonder if they would just say yep, we did the timing belt? We assume a dealer would not, but I am 100% serious about the tires. How much would you bet that if you wanted 4 Dunlop SP5000's in the deal, they would say no. Actually, they don't know that I had the internal work order on the car. It's usually because of these "out of the box" things that people get burned not doing what they said. I think sales emailed it thinking it would help close a sale.

lr2017

Thanks you so much to all those to assisted with their responses. I bought the '04 LS430 Ultra White/Cashemere from the Lexus dealer last weekend for $11,300+taxes and fees. Have driven about 150mi so far and I am enjoying the quite ride. I have been checking/testing/programming features/buttons and yesterday I found out the right speakers are not working properly. I also checked out the 'hidden menu' and it had all options marked 'ok' except Audio which was marked 'check' so there certainly is something not right with the speakers (I was wondering while bringing the car home why ML system was not even as good as my old passat 6 speaker sound system). I plan to talk to the dealer today, not sure if he will fix it or not.

2KHarrier

Glad to hear you chose a good one. You'll have to share what the dealer says abut the audio problems...

lr2017

I let Dealer know about speakers not working properly, earlier this week. I bought new CD writer and stack of CD to begin preparing to write my favourite music to CD (and go back to CD era) when I learned about one more issue (CD not loading, seems prior owner CD is stuck). Followed up with Dealer manager today, he said this was 'AS-IS' and so they will not do anything, they can take the car back if I am not satisfied. I am finding new things so I am inclined to get a PPI with another local Lexus dealer and get a quote.

General reflections having driven 250 miles in 2 weeks - enjoy the smooth drive, powerful acceleration and above all the cute chiming bell when I am in vicinity of my home. But demotivated by 'AVERAGE 15.2 MPG' glaring in my face (my average is 14mph). And yes it is a BIG car, the car don't fit most of the parking spots easily where my Passat Station wagon used to creep in quietly, but not complaining, just a realization of having a Big car. Not particularly impressed with ML system, I feel my Passat had better sounding original cassette player and 6 speakers. So if I had to spend money to remedy the speakers I am thinking of going for an upgrade with bluetooth music streaming (hear YouTube occasionally in car).

JffGRY706

if you disconnect the battery for some time, the stuck cd might unload when you reconnect it. I had a stuck cd in my car and un hooked the positive terminal for 30 minutes and it unloaded. but on this forum it is recommended to un hook the negative terminal. don't know the reason. I did lose all my radio settings and mpg and avg mile info, but no big deal to me. I did have to push the eject button a few times, but it did unload the stuck cd and it works fine now. the speakers are another issue and I have no knowledge of ML system, except the ohms are strange and speakers are somewhat hard to find. good luck