Hot Running after heater valve replacement
12-08-13, 03:11 PM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
Hot Running after heater valve replacement
Having some trouble with a heater valve replacement. Not my car so I don't know the full history; it is my girlfriend's. I have searched some old threads on GS300 overheating, but can't find a duplicate scenario. Full story:
She had it at the mechanic for an oil change, he told her she had a coolant leak and to watch the level, carry some coolant. I didn't like the idea of ignoring the problem so she stopped by my house one night to have me look at it. The heater valve was disintegrating; i literally poked it with a finger modestly and the inlet pipe broke off. Prior to this, the car was running normally. 1994 GS300, 225k. Has been maintained adequately, though I don't know t-belt, pump etc. history.
It took a several days to get a replacement heater valve, and it is the correct Denso unit as the original, though apparently now made of different material. I was very carefuly when removing the crumbling old one to fish out all parts of the fragmenting pipes so no material was dropped into the hoses.
I refilled the radiator and once it warmed up, it went straight towards the red zone on the temp gauge. I shut it down and comtemplated things a bit, wondering if the thermostat could be stuck (seemed unlikely but that's how it behaved). I parked it uphill and tried "burping" it, etc.but no change. I walked to the auto parts store and bought a thermostat and gasket. I forgot to buy a new cap, and we'll come back to that oversight shortly.
I cracked open the lower radiator hose, installed the new gasket, refilled the radiator and MUCH more coolant went in than came out when I opened the lower house. I restarted the car and it seemed to operate normally. My dad suggested it was a vapor lock of air in the system, and this appears to be correct. I boiled the old thermostat on the stove in a pan and it retracted/opened as the water approached boiling. I drove the car around on some short hops in town and it seemed fine. She came by last night to collect it and give me back my SUV - I gave it to her to drive this week since she lives out of town, commutes to work, etc. and I can survive a while on my own, I live in town and close to things, can work from home. I told her to keep my truck so I could drive it some more and make sure all was well, also I wanted to get some snows on it for her. Also I needed to take a long drive today, so that would be a better test. That did not go so well.
I drove about 20 miles; 5 miles stop and go in town then 15 on the interstate and state highway, steady 60 or 65mph. At that point, steam came out strongly from the rf hood/headlight area (expansion/recovery tank). The car went rapidly towards the red so I shut it down and pulled over quickly, there was a safe spot to stop. The expansion tank had a crack along the hood edge, actually kinda crumbly and disntegrating. Apparently the radiator cap failed. A good Samaritan helped me, looked it all over and suggested it was that or a head gasket (jeez I hope not!). He drove me into town and we got a gallon of antifreeze and a new cap. I installed the cap, topped it off with a 60/40-ish mix, let it idle and the temps looked good and revving it did not get it to heat up.
I drove four/five miles on the highway and it ran very hot - about 3/4 of the way up, did not get into the red or near it. I stopped and disconnected the cable to the heater valve and pushed the lever back towards the firewall (open) and this got more heat out and cooled the engine to wear I was comfortable driving it home, though it was clearly running hot. The gauge was maybe 2/3 up at a steady 55mph with the heater cranked full (85F "auto" setting on cc unit). If I drove 35mph it cooled and the gauge was at 1/2 way. Outside temps today 30F so helpful there; unusually cold for here (near Seattle).
So I'm baffled. Some questions:
1) Could it be air-locked again?
2) Could it be clogged somewhere from something?
3) Could my new thermostat have possibly failed (highly unlikely I would think)?
4) Could I have installed the thermostat wrong? (put the spring side into the block; not even sure if you could pit it in backwards, I don't think the inlet housing had room for the spring assembly)
5) The lever on the heater valve never moves apparently, it just seems permanently at 1/3 open. Is it supposed to be servo-controlled from the CC unit somehow?
6) is there a lower valve to the heater circuit?
7) What should be my diagnostic steps next before I surrender and take it to her mechanic?
I'm baffled at what is going on here, and I really don't understand the ins-and-outs of this vehicle. I know a head valve can be a suspect here, and this car has mileage on it. It doesn't show any obvious signs of that - no coolant/oil mix in either system, no odor or wet exhaust, etc.
Again, it was working perfectly before the heater valve broke open, and it seemed fine this morning for the first 20 miles until the cap let go. Also that seems to mean higher pressure now than previoulsy; the new cap was clearly stronger than the old one. Both were labeled 0.9, I assume meaning bar or atm. I notice now that with the new cap, the upper radiator hose is bulging a bit at the outlet connection on the head. Maybe I didn't notice that before or it's higher pressure causing it; I ordered a new one and will have it tomorrow afternoon. The other hoses were good - at the heater valve on either side and the lower radiator hose. I'm guessing there's a lower heater outlet hose somewhere I haven't found.
She had it at the mechanic for an oil change, he told her she had a coolant leak and to watch the level, carry some coolant. I didn't like the idea of ignoring the problem so she stopped by my house one night to have me look at it. The heater valve was disintegrating; i literally poked it with a finger modestly and the inlet pipe broke off. Prior to this, the car was running normally. 1994 GS300, 225k. Has been maintained adequately, though I don't know t-belt, pump etc. history.
It took a several days to get a replacement heater valve, and it is the correct Denso unit as the original, though apparently now made of different material. I was very carefuly when removing the crumbling old one to fish out all parts of the fragmenting pipes so no material was dropped into the hoses.
I refilled the radiator and once it warmed up, it went straight towards the red zone on the temp gauge. I shut it down and comtemplated things a bit, wondering if the thermostat could be stuck (seemed unlikely but that's how it behaved). I parked it uphill and tried "burping" it, etc.but no change. I walked to the auto parts store and bought a thermostat and gasket. I forgot to buy a new cap, and we'll come back to that oversight shortly.
I cracked open the lower radiator hose, installed the new gasket, refilled the radiator and MUCH more coolant went in than came out when I opened the lower house. I restarted the car and it seemed to operate normally. My dad suggested it was a vapor lock of air in the system, and this appears to be correct. I boiled the old thermostat on the stove in a pan and it retracted/opened as the water approached boiling. I drove the car around on some short hops in town and it seemed fine. She came by last night to collect it and give me back my SUV - I gave it to her to drive this week since she lives out of town, commutes to work, etc. and I can survive a while on my own, I live in town and close to things, can work from home. I told her to keep my truck so I could drive it some more and make sure all was well, also I wanted to get some snows on it for her. Also I needed to take a long drive today, so that would be a better test. That did not go so well.
I drove about 20 miles; 5 miles stop and go in town then 15 on the interstate and state highway, steady 60 or 65mph. At that point, steam came out strongly from the rf hood/headlight area (expansion/recovery tank). The car went rapidly towards the red so I shut it down and pulled over quickly, there was a safe spot to stop. The expansion tank had a crack along the hood edge, actually kinda crumbly and disntegrating. Apparently the radiator cap failed. A good Samaritan helped me, looked it all over and suggested it was that or a head gasket (jeez I hope not!). He drove me into town and we got a gallon of antifreeze and a new cap. I installed the cap, topped it off with a 60/40-ish mix, let it idle and the temps looked good and revving it did not get it to heat up.
I drove four/five miles on the highway and it ran very hot - about 3/4 of the way up, did not get into the red or near it. I stopped and disconnected the cable to the heater valve and pushed the lever back towards the firewall (open) and this got more heat out and cooled the engine to wear I was comfortable driving it home, though it was clearly running hot. The gauge was maybe 2/3 up at a steady 55mph with the heater cranked full (85F "auto" setting on cc unit). If I drove 35mph it cooled and the gauge was at 1/2 way. Outside temps today 30F so helpful there; unusually cold for here (near Seattle).
So I'm baffled. Some questions:
1) Could it be air-locked again?
2) Could it be clogged somewhere from something?
3) Could my new thermostat have possibly failed (highly unlikely I would think)?
4) Could I have installed the thermostat wrong? (put the spring side into the block; not even sure if you could pit it in backwards, I don't think the inlet housing had room for the spring assembly)
5) The lever on the heater valve never moves apparently, it just seems permanently at 1/3 open. Is it supposed to be servo-controlled from the CC unit somehow?
6) is there a lower valve to the heater circuit?
7) What should be my diagnostic steps next before I surrender and take it to her mechanic?
I'm baffled at what is going on here, and I really don't understand the ins-and-outs of this vehicle. I know a head valve can be a suspect here, and this car has mileage on it. It doesn't show any obvious signs of that - no coolant/oil mix in either system, no odor or wet exhaust, etc.
Again, it was working perfectly before the heater valve broke open, and it seemed fine this morning for the first 20 miles until the cap let go. Also that seems to mean higher pressure now than previoulsy; the new cap was clearly stronger than the old one. Both were labeled 0.9, I assume meaning bar or atm. I notice now that with the new cap, the upper radiator hose is bulging a bit at the outlet connection on the head. Maybe I didn't notice that before or it's higher pressure causing it; I ordered a new one and will have it tomorrow afternoon. The other hoses were good - at the heater valve on either side and the lower radiator hose. I'm guessing there's a lower heater outlet hose somewhere I haven't found.
12-09-13, 10:47 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
Should I take the cap off, rev it hot with heat high in my driveway?
I think it's vapor locked (and hoping it's that and not worse) and hope it's that and not a clogged journal or something, or head gasket.
12-10-13, 06:52 AM
#4
Lexus Champion
I did while driving. I didn't do that when I refilled it stuck on the road before driving (so with cap off).
Should I take the cap off, rev it hot with heat high in my driveway?
I think it's vapor locked (and hoping it's that and not worse) and hope it's that and not a clogged journal or something, or head gasket.
Should I take the cap off, rev it hot with heat high in my driveway?
I think it's vapor locked (and hoping it's that and not worse) and hope it's that and not a clogged journal or something, or head gasket.
It sounds like there's still an air pocket in the cooling system. The heater core is where I suspect it could be. What I do to bleed coolant if there's no zerk fitting, is to leave the radiator cap off and run the car till the coolant is done burping after the t-stat opens up by revving it a tiny bit till coolant flows out. Shut it off, let it cool down. Top it off and test it out.
The heater core is an area that gives a lot of people trouble because it the valve is closed by having no heat, that can trap air in the system. Not saying that's the case here, but its the first thing I try when I run into problems like this.
G/L
03-11-14, 09:44 PM
#6
Driver
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"She had it at the mechanic for an oil change, he told her she had a coolant leak and to watch the level, carry some coolant. "
This tells me she didn't take it in for the coolant leak, which probably means she drove like that for some time... So who knows how long did it run on low coolant? How is it idling? Do a chemical test on the coolant ASAP. Good luck.
This tells me she didn't take it in for the coolant leak, which probably means she drove like that for some time... So who knows how long did it run on low coolant? How is it idling? Do a chemical test on the coolant ASAP. Good luck.
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