Bumper yellowing questions
07-07-15, 02:18 AM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Bumper yellowing questions
Last September 2014, I had my rear bumper replaced and painted due to an accident on my Starfire Pearl 08 GS350 . About 3 months ago (April), Lexus dealer gave me a complimentary full detail on my car. Lexus didn't buff my car. Since then, I have only washed my car once. Last week after getting my car washed, I noticed a slight yellowing shade on the driver side corner rear bumper. I thought it was just from the sunlight, so I didn't think much of it. I decided to take another good look while my car was in my garage. I notice the yellowing shade again. But this time, I noticed it around both corners of my rear bumper. I asked my neighbor just to make sure if he can see it too and not just my vision.
Afterwards I decided to take my car back to the shop who fixed my rear bumper 10mos ago. First thing the guy asked, If I recently had the car detailed. I told him that Lexus detailed my car 3mos ago. He then came to the conclusion that the yellowing was due to them buffering the corners way too long, causing a burn and for it to yellow. That's when I told him that Lexus didn't buff my car. Then he asked if they waxed it because he can see some compound between the cracks, where my bumper meets my quarter panel. I told him I'm not sure. Then he proceed with another assumption that it could be the chemical they used causing it to yellow. I then asked him, if that's the case, wouldn't I see it on other parts of my car also? Since they waxed the whole car. It's just weird that the yellowing is only developing on the rear bumper he fixed and I highly doubt that Lexus will use a wax that can harm their paint. The guy then said just to bring my car back and that he would try to help me out.
My question is... From all the experts from guys who does detail and body shop work. Which is the more likely scenario. Is the yellowing discoloration is due to a bad detail job or a bad repaint job?
Afterwards I decided to take my car back to the shop who fixed my rear bumper 10mos ago. First thing the guy asked, If I recently had the car detailed. I told him that Lexus detailed my car 3mos ago. He then came to the conclusion that the yellowing was due to them buffering the corners way too long, causing a burn and for it to yellow. That's when I told him that Lexus didn't buff my car. Then he asked if they waxed it because he can see some compound between the cracks, where my bumper meets my quarter panel. I told him I'm not sure. Then he proceed with another assumption that it could be the chemical they used causing it to yellow. I then asked him, if that's the case, wouldn't I see it on other parts of my car also? Since they waxed the whole car. It's just weird that the yellowing is only developing on the rear bumper he fixed and I highly doubt that Lexus will use a wax that can harm their paint. The guy then said just to bring my car back and that he would try to help me out.
My question is... From all the experts from guys who does detail and body shop work. Which is the more likely scenario. Is the yellowing discoloration is due to a bad detail job or a bad repaint job?
Last edited by MiggzGS; 07-07-15 at 02:22 AM.
07-07-15, 07:54 PM
#2
bad clear coat or poorly mixed clear can yellow too.
I doubt the detailer burned the paint by polishing, unless your bumper was really bad enough to need a lot of polishing.
I've never heard of any wax that can cause a change in paint color. That's BS.
maybe it just wasn't color matched perfectly on day 1, and you didn't notice.
A lot of times bumper paint color can look slightly different.
Can you capture the difference on camera?
I doubt the detailer burned the paint by polishing, unless your bumper was really bad enough to need a lot of polishing.
I've never heard of any wax that can cause a change in paint color. That's BS.
maybe it just wasn't color matched perfectly on day 1, and you didn't notice.
A lot of times bumper paint color can look slightly different.
Can you capture the difference on camera?
07-08-15, 04:37 AM
#3
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
I took my car back yesterday morning and guess what... The guy didn't own up to it and barely tried to help me out. He said that he can only try to buff it out, and not guarantee that it will clear it up. If it doesn't clear it up, that he will have to repaint it. To help me out, instead of charging me the regular $1200, he will only charge me $400. I straight told him I'm not paying for something I already paid for, and for a job that wasn't done right. He got pissed and claimed that it's no longer his responsibility since he wasn't the last guy to work on the car. I told him that my car was only detailed by Lexus.. He then told me to take it back to Lexus to have them fix it since they were the last one to touch my car. If not, then he can still try to help me and the best thing he can do is repaint it for $400. So I told him I will think about it and get back to him.
I decided to take my car to 2 other reputable body shops. When I showed them my bumper, both shops immediately said that it was a poor paint job. They said it was a bad mix and that the paint didn't cure correctly causing it to yellow under the clear coat. That no way a wax or polish job would have caused my bumper to yellow like that. Asked me which shop did the work and both told me to take it back to them and have them fix it.
At this point I'm not really sure what to do? I have used this shop a few times before, but this is the first time I ever dealt with this guy. The guy I used to work with moved to their other shop. I'm thinking about bringing this up to the owner or manager and have them get involve.
Yea I took my car to 2 other shops and both said the same thing. No way a wax or polish would have caused my bumper to yellow like that.
It's kinda hard to tell unless you really look into it... I'm going to try to take some pics today.
I decided to take my car to 2 other reputable body shops. When I showed them my bumper, both shops immediately said that it was a poor paint job. They said it was a bad mix and that the paint didn't cure correctly causing it to yellow under the clear coat. That no way a wax or polish job would have caused my bumper to yellow like that. Asked me which shop did the work and both told me to take it back to them and have them fix it.
At this point I'm not really sure what to do? I have used this shop a few times before, but this is the first time I ever dealt with this guy. The guy I used to work with moved to their other shop. I'm thinking about bringing this up to the owner or manager and have them get involve.
bad clear coat or poorly mixed clear can yellow too.
I doubt the detailer burned the paint by polishing, unless your bumper was really bad enough to need a lot of polishing.
I've never heard of any wax that can cause a change in paint color. That's BS.
maybe it just wasn't color matched perfectly on day 1, and you didn't notice.
A lot of times bumper paint color can look slightly different.
Can you capture the difference on camera?
I doubt the detailer burned the paint by polishing, unless your bumper was really bad enough to need a lot of polishing.
I've never heard of any wax that can cause a change in paint color. That's BS.
maybe it just wasn't color matched perfectly on day 1, and you didn't notice.
A lot of times bumper paint color can look slightly different.
Can you capture the difference on camera?
It's kinda hard to tell unless you really look into it... I'm going to try to take some pics today.
Last edited by MiggzGS; 07-08-15 at 05:03 AM.
07-08-15, 05:33 AM
#4
Lead Lap
iTrader: (1)
It's hard to tell the "experts" from the inexperienced. Assuming that someone is an expert just because they're getting paid or even own the business does not an expert make. It's even worse when one posts questions on a forum. No idea how their opinions are formed. The best way to sort this out is to do what you did, get several professional opinions and go from there. The experts will rise like cream. But please, take my advice as a non expert.
07-08-15, 01:14 PM
#6
$1200 to paint a bumper? hahah.
BBB usually doesn't work because they're not a policing organization, and a lot of body shops probably don't care what their rating is.
What I would do is get written diagnoses from the other body shops with their estimates.
Then bring those quotes and calmly talk to the shop, share your second and third opinions from other shops, and say complimentary repaint is the right thing to do. Paint jobs should come with a warranty.
Your paint job hasn't even been a year yet.
I had my bumper painted by Lexus Collision Center, and it comes with a lifetime guarantee. If I brought it back with that yellowing, they would repaint it no questions asked.
If you can't get them to budge, say "Look man, repaint is the right thing to do. But if you're not going to do that, then I'd like a refund of the amount it would take for another shop to repair the paint."
Give them a demand letter, which they will probably ignore. But you keep a record of it.
Then take them to small claims court.
I'd rather not work with someone who is unwilling and holds a grudge.
One other thing........ the other bumper is not yellow, right?
BBB usually doesn't work because they're not a policing organization, and a lot of body shops probably don't care what their rating is.
What I would do is get written diagnoses from the other body shops with their estimates.
Then bring those quotes and calmly talk to the shop, share your second and third opinions from other shops, and say complimentary repaint is the right thing to do. Paint jobs should come with a warranty.
Your paint job hasn't even been a year yet.
I had my bumper painted by Lexus Collision Center, and it comes with a lifetime guarantee. If I brought it back with that yellowing, they would repaint it no questions asked.
If you can't get them to budge, say "Look man, repaint is the right thing to do. But if you're not going to do that, then I'd like a refund of the amount it would take for another shop to repair the paint."
Give them a demand letter, which they will probably ignore. But you keep a record of it.
Then take them to small claims court.
I'd rather not work with someone who is unwilling and holds a grudge.
One other thing........ the other bumper is not yellow, right?
Last edited by pman6; 07-08-15 at 01:19 PM.
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07-09-15, 04:56 AM
#8
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
So I had Lexus check my bumper today... My service adviser said they hand waxed my car and that they been using the same wax to every car they detail. He said they never had that type of issue before with the other cars they used on. My service adviser took the next step and showed my car to their body shop guy. The shop guy said that no way hand wax would have done that. He said that it's bad mix paint job caused the yellowing. The discoloring is happening under the clear coat. Most likely from not mixing the paint and primer right. He also said how come it's not happening to any other parts of my car since they used the same wax on the whole car.
So I drove back to body shop who fixed my car... Immediately the guy gave me a remark saying "Back again huh?"... I was like "Yea I'm back again". I told him that I just came from Lexus and they inspected my car.. He then asked me what happen, So I pretty much repeated and told him everything that Lexus had told me. He didn't take it so well, and he immediately got very defensive. Saying that since the Lexus experts told me what happen that I guess he should took full responsibility. He then made a remark about how he's only been doing this most of his life and who he is to question those experts. I then told him how I took my car to 2 other very reputable shops for a quote, and that both shops told me the same thing, that it's a bad paint job and that for me to bring it back to you guys to fix. He still keep forcing the issue that someone used some chemical on it causing it to yellow. I told him your argument doesn't make sense because other parts of my car is not showing the same damage results. Not even the front bumper.
So after going back and forth with him for another 5mins. He finally told me that he will take full responsibility since all the experts told me that it was his shops fault. I told him what's the point of your shop giving warranties, if they're not going to live up to it? He then just said I'll be a better man and take full responsibility and asked me when I want to drop off the car.
After all that, I dont feel comfortable dealing with this guy. I know they have a couple of other shops around. I'm wondering if I should bring it up to the manager or owner, and ask for a new shop guy to look into my car ,or have one of their other job do the job. I just dont fully trust that guy, and dont want to deal with him anymore. I feel like he will do another half *** job on my car.
So I drove back to body shop who fixed my car... Immediately the guy gave me a remark saying "Back again huh?"... I was like "Yea I'm back again". I told him that I just came from Lexus and they inspected my car.. He then asked me what happen, So I pretty much repeated and told him everything that Lexus had told me. He didn't take it so well, and he immediately got very defensive. Saying that since the Lexus experts told me what happen that I guess he should took full responsibility. He then made a remark about how he's only been doing this most of his life and who he is to question those experts. I then told him how I took my car to 2 other very reputable shops for a quote, and that both shops told me the same thing, that it's a bad paint job and that for me to bring it back to you guys to fix. He still keep forcing the issue that someone used some chemical on it causing it to yellow. I told him your argument doesn't make sense because other parts of my car is not showing the same damage results. Not even the front bumper.
So after going back and forth with him for another 5mins. He finally told me that he will take full responsibility since all the experts told me that it was his shops fault. I told him what's the point of your shop giving warranties, if they're not going to live up to it? He then just said I'll be a better man and take full responsibility and asked me when I want to drop off the car.
After all that, I dont feel comfortable dealing with this guy. I know they have a couple of other shops around. I'm wondering if I should bring it up to the manager or owner, and ask for a new shop guy to look into my car ,or have one of their other job do the job. I just dont fully trust that guy, and dont want to deal with him anymore. I feel like he will do another half *** job on my car.
Last edited by MiggzGS; 07-09-15 at 06:22 AM.
07-09-15, 01:32 PM
#10
Who exactly are you talking to at the shop? The person who painted the bumper or just someone that works there? I would not want to deal with such a petty person. His responses are child like and not becoming of a reputable business person.Definitely try to get someone else in the shop to do the job at this point and hope they don't purposely mess something up on your car that you wont notice until months down the line.
07-09-15, 03:00 PM
#11
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Who exactly are you talking to at the shop? The person who painted the bumper or just someone that works there? I would not want to deal with such a petty person. His responses are child like and not becoming of a reputable business person.Definitely try to get someone else in the shop to do the job at this point and hope they don't purposely mess something up on your car that you wont notice until months down the line.
I just dont feel comfortable and no longer really trust that guy. I'm not suppose to drop off my car until Monday. Gives me a couple days to decide on what to do.
Last edited by MiggzGS; 07-09-15 at 03:06 PM.
07-16-15, 10:48 AM
#12
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Update:
Decided to drop my car off this past Monday... I received a call from the estimator telling me that they need to keep the car a little longer. He said that his painter is having trouble on trying to match the paint. He also said for some reason that paint is not sticking the way he wants to. I asked him if he stripped the old paint before the he repainted and he said yes... He still claiming that some chemical that was used did something to my bumper preventing the paint to stick... I told him there should be no issue if he remove the old paint and start from scratch.
I think the problem is with the bumper itself. I know most refinished bumpers comes ready for paint. I wonder if the bumper had a bad primer mixed. Which also what cause the yellowing in the first place.
Decided to drop my car off this past Monday... I received a call from the estimator telling me that they need to keep the car a little longer. He said that his painter is having trouble on trying to match the paint. He also said for some reason that paint is not sticking the way he wants to. I asked him if he stripped the old paint before the he repainted and he said yes... He still claiming that some chemical that was used did something to my bumper preventing the paint to stick... I told him there should be no issue if he remove the old paint and start from scratch.
I think the problem is with the bumper itself. I know most refinished bumpers comes ready for paint. I wonder if the bumper had a bad primer mixed. Which also what cause the yellowing in the first place.
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