T0ked

iTrader: (2)

We'll just have to agree to disagree and move along.

oldcajun

I just saw my first Azera and it looks fantastic. The profile is just as striking as the Audi A7 and from the rear 3/4 view I think it looks better than the A7. The interior is on a par with the current ES350 including the perforated leather seats. Sticker was $33K which included NAV and a sunroof. That makes it about $8K cheaper than a Genesis with similar equipment. A loaded Sonata Limited with turbo lists for $32K but is a much smaller car. Will a lot of people cross shop the Azera against the ES350? Probably not, but those who do will find a lot to like about the Hyundai. Direct pricing competition is probab;y Camry XLE and Accord EXL.
Steve

spwolf

well obviously there is no need for A7 anymore since Azera has arrived.

mmarshall

Those who pan Hyundais for poor reliability are generally living in the past. They have been reliable (or reasonably reliable) for over ten years now.....the big change came between 1997 and the early 2000s. The change came a little later for Kia, but Kia is now also a credible nameplate.

Having said that, though, I think that some of the best Hyundai products were done from the early-late 2000s. Some of the very latest ones, IMO, are showing thinner, lighter-weight materials and less solidness in the body and interior. But they are still good products.

03 ES

I'm glad to see Hyundai is a legitimate product now and people are accepting it. They worked very hard to produce a better product and a better image. Most companies have stayed stagnant or soured (Honda) but Hyundai has kept it fresh. Hats off to them, they do produce a great product at a fair price.


...but its no

TRDFantasy

Interesting point. Kind of like wondering what is the reason that some people go out of their way to defend the Azera and defend Hyundai here on ClubLexus.

LexBob2

As mentioned before, Hyundai/Kia is now mainstream and not going anywhere. They'll no doubt have their ups and down like all car makers but they have a good plan for new cars in place right now.

As a car enthusiast I like to keep an eye on what they are doing.

TRDFantasy

Maybe, but wasn't that idea ruled out here on CL? That there was no need for anything other than Car Chat? While it's fine for fans of other brands to feel comfortable as CL is a great place, given that this is a Lexus board, it seems logical that Lexus and Toyota fans should feel a bit more comfortable than fans of other brands. This is very reasonable, especially if CL will never have a Toyota/Lexus Chat sub-forum.

Also, general Lexus/Toyota news is never posted in the model-specific sub-forums here on CL. So if there is general Lexus/Toyota news, then Toyota/Lexus fans have no choice other than Car Chat. Given this, it seems only fair that Lexus/Toyota fans have first priority in terms of feeling comfortable posting in Car Chat over fans of other brands.

In contrast, model-specific news is often posted in the specific model sub-forums, where non-Lexus fans almost never post.

Hatred might be too strong of a word. Consistent negative jabs, or sly remarks against Lexus though? Happens all the time here on ClubLexus, with the majority of the comments always coming from the same group of members. Members who own Lexus cars, yet consistently make negative jabs and sly remarks against Lexus. Makes you wonder the reasons why and what motives would people have for this?

Like I said, I believe constructive criticism is fine, but destructive criticism such as sly remarks and jabs at Lexus/Toyota with no good reason is not IMHO.

Will do.

I think Car Chat has actually become a bit of dull place for Lexus/Toyota fans. I have spoken to several ex-CL members who stopped posting on CL because they felt there were too many jabs and remarks against Lexus occurring without reasonable cause, mostly from the same people on Car Chat.

MPLexus301

iTrader: (3)

^Great post

To think that Car Chat is just supposed to be some random anomaly on a Lexus forum, where people from all over the interet are going to come register on ClubLexus to talk about Nissan, Ford, Chevrolet, Fiat, etc, is really kind of foolish IMO. Most of the people who frequent this forum are current Lexus owners or ex-Lexus owners who came to CL when they were driving one. Does everything here need to be pro-Lexus? No, but the anti-Lexus jabs and repeated attemps by certain members to "level the playing field" for Lexus is really dragging down the morale IMO.

Maybe we need to create a "General Lexus Discussion" forum since, to your point, most people really don't post the same types of things in the model-specific forums that they do in Car Chat.

spwolf

It doesnt matter if you like the design or not, what I was saying is that big deal of attention was put into interior which simply was not case with Toyota before. They really stepped up. Reason I own Lexus and not a lot cheaper Toyota is because of this.

On the other hand, as Mr. Burns pointed out, Azera is stuck with old style interior, which is basically blown up Elantra/Sonata. It is going to hurt them vs all of the competition i posted. Way too much plastics compared to everyone else. It doesnt look to be in the same ballpark or class, and at the same time, it is priced that way.

That last pic was new Impala. All those cars are going to be on sale within few k of each other, and certainly people will cross shop it.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

yes, we concluded it wasn't needed and that there would just be double posting.

i'm not sure how we make lexus and toyota fans 'a bit more comfortable than fans of other brands'. it's what lies within. some people are never happy or are just more sensitive. we moderate out obvious trolling and trolls - MANY people get banned from here and other remedies.

again, not sure specifically what we can do to give lexus/toyota fans 'first priority in feeling comfortable'. compared to many other forums this is a very comfortable place!

again, if you want to point out via pm the 'same group of members' and examples of the negative jabs and sly remarks that bother you, we'll look into it. if you think i am in that group, feel free to send it to a different moderator.

i honestly don't know. as you probably know, for various reasons, i no longer own a lexus, one big one is there no dealer anywhere near where i live.

really? i don't think it's ever been better! you may find some things annoying, but i'd never say it was dull! and you're still here.

again, it's unfortunate, but you can't please everyone. i'd say Car Chat has become a lot more diverse in content and opinions in recent years, and for some they might not like that.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I really enjoy Car Chat simply for general enthusiasm in regards to the automotive industry. Which is why I post so many articles stimulating "car chat"

LexFather

Thought I was on a Hyundai forum for a sec




Or is there an extra effort to defend it? Are you saying the same thing about Lexus on non Lexus forums in regards to the crap Lexus gets?

This is a general theme of Hyundai threads. For whatever reasons the negative or feedback not complimentary of the brand completely overshadows the good comments.

For example, this happens all the time in Hyundai/Kia threads

Lexus fan on a Lexus fansite
1. Wow not bad looking
2. I like the new interiors
3. Wow nice stock wheels
4. MPG, I don't really think the numbers are not accurate
5. Price is decent
6. I like the rear


Then person comes in, skips 5 positive comments and picks out #4 to btich about like a 3 year old
"MPG is fine, owners are saying 70 MPG on this site no one heard of before"

Then we get the

"You just hate Hyundai/Kia, Lexus is in trouble blah blah blah"

TRDFantasy

Great reply, I know exactly what you're talking about . I do believe the "General Lexus Discussion" sub-forum idea was mentioned before, but it doesn't seem like it would be implemented. Mods or Dave can correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: bitkahuna just answered regarding the sub-forum idea above.

Fair enough. That was a balanced reply .