Discontinued Infiniti Q45 maybe Q50? (no replacement coming)
#16
Still won't work. Again, the brand has to be aspirational where people with serious coin won't think twice dropping 70-190k (S65 is that much) on a D class flagship. There is no line of people waiting for this car.
The Genesis hasn't come close to meeting sales goals. I think the result is mixed as it seems some enthusiasts know about it but the general public seems to miss it. I agree it has helped Hyundai but it hasn't been the grand slam I think many thought it would be.
They would sell 250 cars tops here (a month), and with no diesels it would struggle overseas.
No business case.
The Genesis hasn't come close to meeting sales goals. I think the result is mixed as it seems some enthusiasts know about it but the general public seems to miss it. I agree it has helped Hyundai but it hasn't been the grand slam I think many thought it would be.
They would sell 250 cars tops here (a month), and with no diesels it would struggle overseas.
No business case.
#17
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OK, so, if you don't think that another Q would carry the Infiniti banner against the LS460, then what would you propose for a new flagship, then?
I'd say do another try and simply give it a different designation. In fact, the "Q" designation is aleady shared by Infiniti SUV's (Q56, QX4)......the flagship probably should get something different.
I'd say do another try and simply give it a different designation. In fact, the "Q" designation is aleady shared by Infiniti SUV's (Q56, QX4)......the flagship probably should get something different.
I agree with a new name. but every friggin alphabet is probably taken.
i would say stick with Q for sedan and change the name on SUV. Qx56 and Q56 would be too similar.
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#19
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Infiniti isn't Hyundai. It's a Luxury brand.
I think there is a market for a well designed Q56. price it 63k to 80k. a success here would take Infiniti to a next level. Q45 failed because just 7-8 years go Infiniti wasn't even acura's level. plus Q45 was ugly compared to german and lexus.
I think there is a market for a well designed Q56. price it 63k to 80k. a success here would take Infiniti to a next level. Q45 failed because just 7-8 years go Infiniti wasn't even acura's level. plus Q45 was ugly compared to german and lexus.
We do not know the percentage of their most expensive model the M45 in regards to sales. We do know the G37 is 60% of their volume and the Q45 failed for 16 or so years.
Hey its not me. The facts are people bypass this brand as the asking price increases. Unless the new Q56 or whatever is another FM based car that requires minimal investment/economies of scale make it profitable, there is no market for it. Again, Audi can't sell an A8, Jaguar struggles with the XJ and the Phateon was flop. From what we see, the D-flagship category is dominated by the S-class/LS/7 series.
I say this over and over, just building a great car is NOT the only answer. As the price goes up, building a GREAT BRAND means more.
I sense sarcasm since you seem to have some personal issue with me. In particular regards to the Q45 I have been accurate over the years.
This is not a diss to the brand, I admire how far they have come. However there is nothing to suggest people want a new Q.
#20
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i think you build a great brand by making a great car. if infiniti can build a Q that is worthy to be called a true luxury flagship then it will only help the brand IMO regardless of the sales. no one buys A8, but audi gets enough respect. and Flagship is a must for a luxury company.
If I was infiniti, I would start developing and surprise the world by 2012 or so. who knows it will shake the car industry?
If I was infiniti, I would start developing and surprise the world by 2012 or so. who knows it will shake the car industry?
#21
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i think you build a great brand by making a great car. if infiniti can build a Q that is worthy to be called a true luxury flagship then it will only help the brand IMO regardless of the sales. no one buys A8, but audi gets enough respect. and Flagship is a must for a luxury company.
If I was infiniti, I would start developing and surprise the world by 2012 or so. who knows it will shake the car industry?
If I was infiniti, I would start developing and surprise the world by 2012 or so. who knows it will shake the car industry?
Before they start thinking about the next Q, they need to make the next M sell almost as well as 5 series/E class.
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Like I asked, though, in an earlier post, what would you suggest as an Infiniti flagship if you don't think another Q would cut it?
It's also interesting, at least to me, that you criticize the Acura RL, which is more or less the same exterior size as the M35/45, as being too small, yet you don't feel that Infiniti needs to do a larger flagship. Both cars, of course, offer AWD....the Acura standard and the M optional. The M45 of course, has a V8 and a choice of RWD/AWD...the RL doesn't.
Maybe both Infiniti and Acura are both looking to the future, though, and the upcoming CAFE standards. Although these standards, of course, are only a fleet-wide average, the more large cars with conventional gas V8 engines, the more difficult meeting the standards it potentially becomes.
Last edited by mmarshall; 02-11-10 at 08:43 PM.
#23
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Mike, I deleted my long winded response. The facts are I've been accurate about their decisions here and the public has spoken with sales.
I will say what I WOULD like to see is more manuals in Infiniti's to truly make them sporty (FX, M37/56, EX, etc) and a GT-R rebadge would have been fabulous.
As for the RL, it can't even compete in its own class, we have seen 3 GENERATIONS of the M to this same generation of the RL. Infiniti seems very interested in improving their vehicle, Acura has their head in the sand.
In regards to MPG I disagree as Acuras have pretty dismal MPG considering they don't offer V-8s and both are following Lexus with them having future hybrids coming.
Cheers and stay warm lol
I will say what I WOULD like to see is more manuals in Infiniti's to truly make them sporty (FX, M37/56, EX, etc) and a GT-R rebadge would have been fabulous.
As for the RL, it can't even compete in its own class, we have seen 3 GENERATIONS of the M to this same generation of the RL. Infiniti seems very interested in improving their vehicle, Acura has their head in the sand.
In regards to MPG I disagree as Acuras have pretty dismal MPG considering they don't offer V-8s and both are following Lexus with them having future hybrids coming.
Cheers and stay warm lol
#24
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Mike, they don't need to b/c if they did it would fail again. The brand has not built up an image to command such a car. They never have. The segment is also very crowded. A new Q is like a VW Phaeton. Hell no one buys the wonderful A8 here.
A good car does not mean people will buy it at these price points. The RL is a good car and cannot be given away. People do not feel it is worth the price. The Q has always had that issue and it would not change today.
Just look at the new M56 pricing, I've browsed around and most are saying the price is way to high for the brand. It is around 60k. A new Q would be at least 70k, which is more than a base LS. It would hit 80k plus with options. People are not interested in it outside of a couple loyal fans who wouldn't/couldn't buy it anyway.
A good car does not mean people will buy it at these price points. The RL is a good car and cannot be given away. People do not feel it is worth the price. The Q has always had that issue and it would not change today.
Just look at the new M56 pricing, I've browsed around and most are saying the price is way to high for the brand. It is around 60k. A new Q would be at least 70k, which is more than a base LS. It would hit 80k plus with options. People are not interested in it outside of a couple loyal fans who wouldn't/couldn't buy it anyway.
#25
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Infiniti, as a brand, is hard to define and not the luxury mark it originally set out to be. I think people think more "sport" or "performance" rather than luxury when it comes to Infiniti. And when you add a $70k full-size sedan, it's emphasis is going to be on luxury, not sport (as most it's competitors are). People would not be looking for luxury from Infiniti and such an expensive car would linger on lots. I see them sticking to their smaller sporty models, which they do very well.
#26
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Hey its not me. The facts are people bypass this brand as the asking price increases. Unless the new Q56 or whatever is another FM based car that requires minimal investment/economies of scale make it profitable, there is no market for it. Again, Audi can't sell an A8, Jaguar struggles with the XJ and the Phateon was flop. From what we see, the D-flagship category is dominated by the S-class/LS/7 series.
Yes--just one example, but I think there is much truth to what 1Sick Says.
#27
Infiniti's brand strategy has been a near disaster from day one. Pity because the company has made and continues to make great cars. The original Q was a very daring and bold statement and the company sabotaged it's own product with a nebulous and inaccessible zen-like promotion. It didn't match the car and worse, it didn't even let us see the damn thing. Infiniti has learned some lessons, hard ones, over the years but they still haven't figured out how to clearly communicate who they are.
I think they are obligated to try again for a top line flagship car. What form it takes is really the critical question. I would love a performance luxury sedan that DOESN'T look like a 7 or an LS or an S Class. If there's anyone one of these companies who needs to be bold in this segment it's Infiniti since they have to make a splash just to get people to notice.
I think they are obligated to try again for a top line flagship car. What form it takes is really the critical question. I would love a performance luxury sedan that DOESN'T look like a 7 or an LS or an S Class. If there's anyone one of these companies who needs to be bold in this segment it's Infiniti since they have to make a splash just to get people to notice.
#28
Lexus Fanatic
I will say what I WOULD like to see is more manuals in Infiniti's to truly make them sporty (FX, M37/56, EX, etc) and a GT-R rebadge would have been fabulous.
I'm sure you remember.....for the GT-R/Skyline, Nissan officials wrestled back and forth between the Nissan and Infiniti badge for some time before the company finally decided on Nissan. Ghosn (probably) ? made the choice himself, though there is no proof of that.
As for the RL, it can't even compete in its own class, we have seen 3 GENERATIONS of the M to this same generation of the RL. Infiniti seems very interested in improving their vehicle, Acura has their head in the sand.
In regards to MPG I disagree as Acuras have pretty dismal MPG considering they don't offer V-8s and both are following Lexus with them having future hybrids coming.
Cheers and stay warm lol
Thanks.....the immediate multi-blizzard crisis around here is lessening up around here. Unlike states like OH, MI, WI, NY, IN, etc..... this area is just not used to....and not prepared for......huge snowfall totals. I and my neighbors got through both huge storms (Thank You, Lord ) without a power failure or roof collapse, as a number of others in the area suffered. Our condo-townhouse development, for a number of reasons, can't practically install emergency generators (and we have electric heat).
My Outback has just been unbelievable in these conditions, though, of course, as a non-essential driver, I stayed off the roads until the storm was over, as requested by local officials. It is filthy, though, and I haven't been able to clean it. Hope to next week....or maybe tomorrow, but it will just get filthy again.
#29
Lexus Fanatic
The Q45 disappeared a while back and I think for it to reemerge after al of this time will really be difficult. The engineers at Nissan will need to work over time. I do miss the crazy headlights and nice lines of the car
#30
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Granted, the M outsells all 3 generations of the Q45, but one of the M's biggest problems is the G itself, because the G is almost the same car for substantially less money. That's part of the problem......Infiniti doesn't have a REAL flagship, so the one they tempoarily have now plays second-fiddle to the car right below it.
As I see it the G is the entry level the future FWD car will be the mid level, and the M is the flagship.