RX_330

I was passing a truck today approaching an overpass and a bunch of smaller pieces of ice came flying down from the top of a truck. I was freaked out at first, thinking about what happened to this man in the article and one of my father's coworkers. Fortunately they were small enough not to cause any damage.

In all my years of driving I've very rarely had any of those "OH ****" moments and this was one of those moments.

trukn1

IS-SV,, you and I are on the same page then. Yeah, I do have a habit of pulling out the soap box, especially when topics get really cose to me. As a, former, on road driver trainer, I used to train new students behind the wheel, and I am used to having to explain and overexplain so that it is real simple to understand. Things like this put me back in "teacher" mode real quick. Your points are very valid and I don't want you to think I was trying to nullify any of them. If it seemed that way, then my apologies. The public, in general, is always quick to blame the actions/inactions of others without considering the full perspective of the situation, and being that this is what I do for a living, and have been for the past 8 years, I tend to look at the perspective from both the car as well as the trucking perspective. And BTW,,,

Quote:

I would REALLY suggest that you take a little more time to see why that given a choice it's often better to not follow large trucks when other space on the road is safely available.

This statement is only funny to me b/c, as a trucker, this is what I have been trying to preach to everyone at every opportunity. LOL!!

Yeah, those moments can be quite scary when they happen. Keep this in mind, in MOST cases, the ice debris that flies from the tops of trucks may seem massive in size but is thin in content. Most roofs of trailers are both tapered so that water runs off the tops, as well as made of fiberglass which doesn't allow a significant amount of freeze. Freak accidents, like the original article posted, CAN happen but they are far and VERY FEW between. What you saw today is indicative of what the normal amount of blowoff entails with trailers, aside from the loose snow which will also blow causing a temp whiteout situation. As long as you keep vigilant and observe what is actually going on around you and adjust your distance accordingly, then you will be fine. That blowoff you experienced is the same from the top of the trailer as it would be from the top of an SUV of van.

IS-SV

Yes we are on the same page as seasoned and experienced road users interested in doing the miles safely. Keep bringing us more information from the perspective of truck drivers because I find it to be useful.

Are you still doing driver training or long-haul driving?

Och

iTrader: (3)

A very disturbing video, I couldn't even watch it to the end. This accident just happened a few days ago in Russia. There were husband and wife in the front of the car, and another family in the back of the car, they were driving on vacation. Apparently as they approached a Kamaz truck loaded with bricks, one of the bricks flew off the truck, and struck their cars windshield, killing the wife in the front passenger seat.

The trucker wasn't even aware that he just killed someone, and kept on driving. The police was able to identify his vehicle and locate the driver at some point later, and planning to press charges for negligence that caused death.

UDel

That is horrible. I first watched with my speaker off and did not read your description and just thought the brick just cracked the windshield but after knowing what happened and having the sound on it was incredibly disturbing especially hearing the passenger. There is absolutely nothing you can do in that situation to avoid that even if you are a very safe driver and what are the chances of the brick coming off and hitting the passenger right in the head through the windshield. I figured a modern windshield could be able to possibly stop that brick or slow it down enough to where it would not be lethal.

I see dump trucks especially dropping all kinds of rocks(sometimes large) and other hard objects when I am on the road. I can't stand being behind them because the rocks chip my paint. I have had some pretty large rocks hit my windshield and were shocked they did not crack or break it, the noise they make is very scary.

My friend is a truck driver and he is required to make sure there is no snow or ice on top of his truck because of deadly accidents. I remember taking a school trip in a school bus going to Philadelphia and hue ice chunks were coming off of trucks and crashing on the roof, one of the chunks broke the escape hatch on the roof of the bus.

T0ked

iTrader: (2)

I understand the difficulty and the dangers of clearing snow and ice from the tops of large trucks, but with several states passing laws that make the driver of the vehicle legally liable and requiring drivers to clear the tops of vehicles of ice snow and debris, it has to be done one way or another.

trukn1

^^ There is only so much that CAN be done. WE as truckers, for the most part (not all are angels,,let's be real), DO make sure that as much of the stuff IS cleared b4 we set off. Many states REQUIRE that shipping facilities have a snow removal device available so that the tops can be cleared, but sadly, and has even made it state law. Sadly, even STILL, many places have yet to install removal devices and we have to do what we have to do. This was a law that could be easily enforced, however is severly negligent in its' enforcement.

Och-- Yes the video IS disturbing, looks like the securement device holding the bricks together broke and a few came off the truck with a large bump. Having hauled bricks(my advantage is an enclosed van type trailer) amongst other things, once one of those securement straps breaks (metal band, place on the load itself by the shipper), all heck CAN break loose. The large securement straps, can especially been in open trucks only keeps the load as a whole secured to the truck, not the individual items on the pallet itself. This is why you normally see multiple metal bands around stuff or even loads wrapped in shrink wrap(just holds the load itself all together). Below is a pic of how brick shipments are packaged to be transported,,before the pallet is even strapped down to the bed of the truck itself,,



Doesn't change the dynamics of anything, nor the outcome. The forward momentum and velocity in which it hit the windshield is the giveaway for those of us trained to recognize this. Freeze the vid around the 15 second mark and you will see the cloud of dust as some hit the ground behind the truck and that one rogue brick went flying. You also have to factor in, that the laws, regulations, etc. especially in regards to safety in Russia are ALOT different from what is required here. The car itself, may have also been a foreign built, or even Russian built vehicle, and may not have had the safety requirements for the windshield in which we REQUIRE here.

Sadly,in most cases, unless it is something blatently obvious(blowout of a tire, impact with the truck in which we can feel it, etc), or someone flags us down, we have NO idea that anything has happened. This is especially true for incidents involving traffic traveling in the opposite way. Not trying to say that he was right , but he honestly had no way of knowing until someone got his attention.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure what kind of regulations they have written into laws in Russia, but I assume they are similar to US - however many drivers in Russia neglect to follow these regulations.

The victims vehicle was a newer model Audi 4 series

Och

iTrader: (3)

It seems to me that a lot of accidents caused by truckers are attributed to speeding. Not sure how fast they travel in Russia and Europe, but in the USA I constantly see them maxing out at 68mph, despite what the posted speed limit, weather and road conditions might be. In my opinion, this is far too fast.

trukn1

Didn't investigate the story further to see what kind of car was involved,, that you for bringing that to light.

there are SOOO many factors involved in the trucking world when it comes to moving freight/goods from point A to point B it would make your head spin ( as IS-SV) can also attest to. MOST accidents involving large trucks are NOT contributed to speed, but to conditions around them (car drivers/ "4-wheelers") doing and making very unwise decisions in very short distances in front of them. Remember, these things are capable of moving great amountsof weight at a very high rate of speed, but they also require a fair amount of distance/space to do it safely. You and I have gone back and forth many times with this, and you know that I DO NOT promote all truckers as angels. LEt's face it,, a bad driver is a bad driver, no matter what the vehicle. FMCSHA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Highway Administration) has done numerous studies over numerous years to back the claim that speed is NOT the primary attributing factor in truck related accidents. Believe it or not, FATIGUE actually outweighs speed. Fatigue sets in,with our industry, with the rules and regulations in which we have to operate by, which forces ALOT of us to push the limits of endurance and unfortunately safety sometimes to get stuff done on schedule. Without going into alot of explanation (as you know I can,,lol), let me give you the skeletal rundown of how we have tooperate.

a. From the time you start in the morning (make the first entry into the log book), we only have 14 CONSECUTIVE hours on the clock to operate. This is inclusive of drive time to/from customer, load/unload time at a customer as well as any of the various duties inbetween. Bottom line,, start at 6 am,,, done by 8 pm(14 consecutive hours later) no matter what you have gotten done or how far you have gotten. doesnt matter if you are behind schedule b/c a customer took EXTRA long loading/unloading (VERY COMMON),, you are done!!!! No exceptions.

b. Within that 14 hour time window, we have 11 hours that we are permitted to be behind the wheel, driving.

If your 14th consecutive hour comes befor your 11th hour driving,, oh well. too bad Your done!!!
If your 11th hour behind the wheel comes before your 14th hour on the clock,, your done!!!!!

After EITHER of these sceneario's,, 10 hour breakMUST be taken,,,, NO EXCEPTION!!


****Please keep in mind that this isonly a bare minimal breakdown of the VARIOUS rules that we have to operate under. The ones I have listed are the ones which HIGHLY affect us each day*****

Now within this mix of rules,,lets' throw in construction, road conditions, traffic, detours, delays (load/unload), breakdowns, etc. and STILL try to make delivery schedule in another city that is over 500 miles away from your point of origin, and STILL be on-time, and it makes for a very stressful/hectic situation. We deal with this everyday/all day.

At one time, we could regulate our "work" time by taking breaks, thus stopping the "clock", now the clock doesn't stop for anything. Once you start, it runs until the time runs out. These rules were put into place in the "interest of public safety". What alot of the "rule makers" are finding out is that their efforts are putting more of you guys into harms way, b/c there is a SIGNIFICANT increase in fatigued' drivers on the road now BECAUSE of these rules that have been put into place. But hey,, we're just truckers,, what do we know about our own limits? What do we know about when WE need to stop and rest b/c we are tired but can't b/c the work clock penalizes us for doing so? What do WE know about actually DRIVING these trucks as opposed to sitting behind a desk, making rules, and never having set foot inside of a truck? 68, too fast?? For most trucks, that is their top "governed" speed" unless going downhill and gravity helps. When the speed limit is 65(on the major highways/Interstates) in just about EVERY state in the country, a few states have exceptions, and we are doing 68 while the rest of these "4-wheelers" (CB slang word for the day), are whizzing by us at 70-75 mph,, we become rolling, sitting ducks for those unlucky few who choose to make bad decisions behind the wheel. Few states such as Ohio, Illinois, Tennessee have tried 1 speed for cars and 1 speed for trucks and their crash/fatality numbers skyrocketed astronomically. It puts us in danger, by moving slower that the flow of traffic, and it puts you guys in danger by those who make bad decisions(around us) behind the wheel. We truckers, like you guys,know our vehicles, as well as the capabilities of our vehicles. We know how far to push them, the limits of what they can/cannot do, etc. However, as stated before, NO DRIVER (car or truck) is a perfect driver behind the wheel. Trucks and equipment are probably ALMOST as safe as drviing your own car, especially with the many advancesin technology for our segment. Automatic transmissions, lane departure warning, adaptive cruise control, ABS, Anti-roll technology, anti skid tech, and the list goes on and on make our industry the most least understood, but also one of the fastest progressing professions in existence today.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Trukn, you brought up a good point about speed limits. Now that I'm thinking about it, in the parts of the country where the speed limit is 65, its much easier to share the roads with the trucks - they are doing 68, and car drivers can safely match their speed or go a little bit faster, without the risk of getting pulled over.

The problem is, around here most speed limits are 55 or even 55cars/50 trucks - yet literally all the truckers are maxing it out at 68. As a car driver, if you try to stick to the speed limit, they will tailgate you, and pass you - on the left and on the right, which is very unpleasant, especially in bad weather condition. They don't seem to slow down for road construction, road and weather conditions either. As such, the cars are almost forced to go 70+, and that increases the chances of getting into accident as well as the risk of getting a fine.

trukn1

Lol,, bruh I have also driven thru NY (LIE, Cross Bronx Ex, Tappan Zee,95 Corridor, 278 , pretty much some of my "regular" runnings), points you brought up ARE valid, but honestly aside from a FEW cars actually doing the speed limit when was the last time a majority of the people driving actually DID the speed limit? We flow with the traffic flow, and keep it moving. 55 in NY is almost laughable unless youare on a side street or something, then MAYBE you might get a chance to see that number; of course the limit is around 35. Do 55 on any of the major highways there and even the CAR behind you will tag you in the rear. Not many states, especially here on the east coast even keep close to the speed limit; Ny/NJ/ Pa/MD included, and I drive through all of them. LOL Keep in mind,,us truckers are NOT all angels, and yes there ARE a number of us who fall into the category of being aggressive; again a bad driver is a bad driver no matter the vehicle. It takes abit to get that truck up to 65/68 so they didn't just jump out the gate with that speed; it had to be built up. The "unwritten rule" for us is once you get the thing going, keep it moving as much as possible. Having to break down 10-15 gears can be a pain sometimes, which is why alot do concentrate on keeping it moving. Is not an excuse mind you, just an unspoken thought process. People not slowing for road conditions, weather, etc. is prevalent despite the vehicle; it is just a bit more terrifying for you being the smaller vehicle b/c you really don't realize just how much control the driver actually has over that truck and it is a bit terrifying. Is ok,,is normal. We know our trucks, their capabilities, as well as our space limitations as well as you know your own car; hard toimagine but it's true. We know where EVERY vehicle is located, completely around us, as well as what we need to do to manage any particular traffic pattern situation, etc.

Och

iTrader: (3)