1SICKBLOG: The RX 450h and 30MPG, unappreciated and what ever vehicle should offer

1SICKLEX · 08-23-09, 10:02 PM

I started this with this phrase in mind; The bottom line is car manufactures haven't tried hard enough to make vehicles more efficient while keeping them luxurious and powerful. No, the press doesn't butthump a car for having tremendous MPG and people don't get all riled up over MPG. Maybe they should though.

Marketing and false promises and an expectation for average or piss poor MPG has continued to give us vehicles where MPG doesn't improve, is marginal to improve or just disappoints. Lexus with the RX 400h and 450h brought to the market what is pretty unheard of. A SUV (popular one at that) that has the option to get great MPG. It was risky, it's not very "horny" and quite frankly continues to be unappreciated. So while I did some research and more research, well MPG in general is pretty damn piss poor. How the hell can it be 2009 going into 2010 and 30 MPG is still a RARE RARE RARE find? How can that be?? Did we really have to wait for CAFE standards to change for car manufacturers to get a gotdamn clue? I feel sorry for those that were acting like its 1962 b/c you don't build fuel efficient vehicles overnight.
Data pulled here
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

My 400h thread here on how an underrated vehicle it is.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...brid-hero.html

I said every vehicle should "offer" as in maybe a trim level. Not what ever vehicle should be. The 2008 RX 400h had a combined 25 MPG, which is pretty incredible for a SUV (2WD). Amazingly the 2010 450h, which is bigger and heavier gets 30 MPG average (2WD). When you start to look around, its clear how much of a techo marvel this really is and the comparisons below will show you how amazing this vehicle is.

To put that in perspective the Kia Soul with an auto gets 28 MPG and the "fuel efficient" Fit and Yaris get a whooping 1 MPG more than the 450h, 31 MPG. The list is countless of smaller vehicles this vehicle embarrasses with MPG.
Kia Soul-28 MPG
Honda Fit-31 MPG
Toyota Yaris-31 MPG
Mazda 3- 27 MPG
Think about that for a sec.

I am not here to explain that hybrids are what we all should drive. No way at all. My thread is showing how incredible the RXh rating is and how a lot of these small cars are IMO pretty small in regards to MPG. (and I don't want to hear real world experience, we are going with one website here) You don't get 30 MPG like in a Fit or Yaris, a barebones entry level car. You are getting a luxurious vehicle! Quite an amazing feat. So lets compare it to some of its competition and other luxury SUVs in general
RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG
Acura RDX 2WD- 21 MPG
A much smaller SUV now with 2WD, gets 9 MPG less
Audi Q5 AWD- 20 MPG
Another small SUV that gets 10 less MPG? Why is it small exactly?
Acura MDX AWD- 17 MPG
The MDX gets 15 MPG city, the RX literally DOUBLES that while being as fast or faster!

Buick Enclave FWD- 19 MPG
This is a larger SUV but still, the RX destroys it in regards to MPG.
Mercedes ML Bluematic (Diesel)-20 MPG
This is clear RX competition and the RX gets 10 MPG more.
Lexus RX 350 FWD
The new RX gets 21 MPG combined which is better/comparble to its gas only competition but clearly behind the 450h.
New Caddy SRX FWD- 21 MPG
On par with the RX with less power though. Clearly less than the h.
VW Tiguan FWD-21 MPG
Another cute ute that gets 21 MPG
Honda CR-V FWD-23 MPG
A popular cute ute that gets 23 MPG, much smaller, lighter, less luxurious
Toyota Rav-4 FWD V-6
22 MPG, 2nd highest in this group. Amazingly only 1 less than the 4 cylinder CR-V.

So lets look at some odd comparos
RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG
Smart Coupe-33 MPG City
Yes the 3 cylinder, tiny, Smart gets 1 whooping MPG more than the RXh!!!

The Nissan Cube- 29MPG
So this tiny vehicle only gets 29 MPG worse than the 2WD RXh and the same as the AWD model!

Scion xB-24 MPG
Another mini mini vehicle, with pretty dismal overall MPG when u think of small it is.
Chrysler PT Cruiser- 21 MPG
Yes this small vehicle gets 21 MPG total.
Chevy Cobalt XFE-30 MPG
I believe this is a fuel efficent Cobalt and its gets 30 MPG combined. Now lets compare a Cobalt side by side to a RX. Can you BELIEVE they get the same MPG?
Mini Cooper base-29 MPG
The peon sized Mini again gets 1 less than the FWD model and the same as an AWD RXh.

Now for the two sub compact heavyweights
Toyota Corolla-30 MPG
Honda Civic-29 MPG
Ford Focus-27 MPG

So two of the most popular vehicles on the planet might get better MPG than most vehicles but worse/the same as the RXh. At this point I'm pretty shocked at how piss poor MPG is in general.

Now for some mid size heavyweights with 4 cylinders
Nissan Altima- 26 MPG
Toyota Camry-25 MPG
Honda Accord-24 MPG
Ford Fusion-23 MPG

So now I see a couple more trends. One SUVs in some cases don't get much worse MPG than a typical midsize sedan, so can we blame people to sticking with SUVs??? Outside of hybrids, MPG is pretty poor though I am pretty impressed with the Altima MPG (and I can attest to it as my G/F has one). Two Honda and especially Acura as I've stated in the past has some pretty mediocre and worse MPG than most of the competition. Seems the gas hogs in the Fit commercials are other Hondas.

Even if you hate hybrids, you have to admit what the RXh has accomplished here is nothing short of incredible. Not only does it embarrass vehicles in its class but econo vehicles can't match it or barely match it. A damn 3 cylinder car gets 1 more MPG in the city!! On top of those figures, the RXh sells on par or better than all Cute-Utes at a higher MSRP and has for sometime now. Its clear the market WANTS this type of vehicle. Why others haven't jumped on board is unclear. (do they not have the technology or they rather ignore MPG). What is clear is Lexus will continue to lead with hybrids and giving people "the best of both worlds".

RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG, SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

carLx · 08-23-09, 10:12 PM

great review.

The everyday limits (traffic, speed limits, etc.) prevent me from using the full power of my IS 350...I'm forced to drive softly a lot of the time and my ecu has been programmed for great throttle control, etc. for this, and i'm getting 23-24 MPG which is amazing to me

why is it amazing? because in my '05 honda civic before this I was forced to mash the pedal down all the time just to get some decent ****ing acceleration (and even then it was never acceptable it was utter garbage) and I only got maybe 25-26 MPG

the IS 350 is far more versatile. depressing the throttle barely produces more than ample acceleration and still allows me 23-24 mpg, but I always have the option to press down further.

You know I always tell myself never to stick with single brand for more than one car because we only live once and it's good to have a nice variety, but the more I drive my car the more I realize it just may be hard for me to get away from the lexus brand.

IS-SV · 08-23-09, 10:32 PM

The RX hybrid certainly has enticing blend of luxury, room and heft, but very little driving fun. At that price point, the "green" factor might have even more appeal than the gas mileage.

encore888 · 08-23-09, 10:43 PM

I would rather call it underappreciated--because the buyers of the RX 450h, and quite a number of reviewers (including some that were skeptical of the RX 400h but find that the 450h proves the technology)--really appreciate it. The 450h's virtues are such that it has completely displaced the 350 in Europe sales, and as mentioned elsewhere, the hybrid RX alone outsells rival luxury SUVs in the US.

IMO the RX 450h does indeed prove the benefit of hybrid technology; 30 mpg is excellent, particularly in the luxury class where vehicles are heavier due to their added on-board equipment and technology. I also like how the 450h is uncompromised with cargo space, despite the hybrid battery (I would like to see all Lexus hybrids designed this way).

And yes it is rather shocking that we are here in 2009 and 30 mpg is unachievable for some smaller, so-called economy cars, as well as midsize ones. I think a 450h with 30 mpg would have been able to use "equal to mini compact X in mpg" as a selling point; instead to beat the Cube/xB/etc. is really eye-opening.

1SICKLEX · 08-23-09, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IS-SV

The RX hybrid certainly has enticing blend of luxury, room and heft, but very little driving fun. At that price point, the "green" factor might have even more appeal than the gas mileage.

My thread isn't talking about driving feel. Besides most of the cars I listed are hardly much sportier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by carLx

great review.

The everyday limits (traffic, speed limits, etc.) prevent me from using the full power of my IS 350...I'm forced to drive softly a lot of the time and my ecu has been programmed for great throttle control, etc. for this, and i'm getting 23-24 MPG which is amazing to me

why is it amazing? because in my '05 honda civic before this I was forced to mash the pedal down all the time just to get some decent ****ing acceleration (and even then it was never acceptable it was utter garbage) and I only got maybe 25-26 MPG

the IS 350 is far more versatile. depressing the throttle barely produces more than ample acceleration and still allows me 23-24 mpg, but I always have the option to press down further.

You know I always tell myself never to stick with single brand for more than one car because we only live once and it's good to have a nice variety, but the more I drive my car the more I realize it just may be hard for me to get away from the lexus brand.

Lexus MPG is very impressive and in many cases you get performance with the best of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by encore888

I would rather call it underappreciated--because the buyers of the RX 450h, and quite a number of reviewers (including some that were skeptical of the RX 400h but find that the 450h proves the technology)--really appreciate it. The 450h's virtues are such that it has completely displaced the 350 in Europe sales, and as mentioned elsewhere, the hybrid RX alone outsells rival luxury SUVs in the US.

IMO the RX 450h does indeed prove the benefit of hybrid technology; 30 mpg is excellent, particularly in the luxury class where vehicles are heavier due to their added on-board equipment and technology. I also like how the 450h is uncompromised with cargo space, despite the hybrid battery (I would like to see all Lexus hybrids designed this way).

And yes it is rather shocking that we are here in 2009 and 30 mpg is unachievable for some smaller, so-called economy cars, as well as midsize ones. I think a 450h with 30 mpg would have been able to use "equal to mini compact X in mpg" as a selling point; instead to beat the Cube/xB/etc. is really eye-opening.

I wonder how much better it could get it was tuned even less for performance as well as being in a lighter vehicle? 35 MPG?

Isn't it amazing though, I mean it beats those small mini vehicles in MPG?

I8ABMR · 08-23-09, 11:06 PM

regardless of mpg the new generation RX is a great vehicle. well designed and well executed. It gives sedan handling, econo box mpg, and SUV utility and comfort. Home run in my book

superchan7 · 08-24-09, 12:36 AM

Previous RXh was a great car--my father had one for a while. The new RX should still be a great car especially in 450h form, but I'm wary of the interior--especially the spartan door panels.

I sure hope they quieted the rattling V6 of the RX350, though. When they dropped the 350 engine into the previous RX, it got noisy.

pagemaster · 08-24-09, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I started this with this phrase in mind; The bottom line is car manufactures haven't tried hard enough to make vehicles more efficient while keeping them luxurious and powerful. No, the press doesn't butthump a car for having tremendous MPG and people don't get all riled up over MPG. Maybe they should though.

Marketing and false promises and an expectation for average or piss poor MPG has continued to give us vehicles where MPG doesn't improve, is marginal to improve or just disappoints. Lexus with the RX 400h and 450h brought to the market what is pretty unheard of. A SUV (popular one at that) that has the option to get great MPG. It was risky, it's not very "horny" and quite frankly continues to be unappreciated. So while I did some research and more research, well MPG in general is pretty damn piss poor. How the hell can it be 2009 going into 2010 and 30 MPG is still a RARE RARE RARE find? How can that be?? Did we really have to wait for CAFE standards to change for car manufacturers to get a gotdamn clue? I feel sorry for those that were acting like its 1962 b/c you don't build fuel efficient vehicles overnight.
Data pulled here
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

My 400h thread here on how an underrated vehicle it is.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-...brid-hero.html

I said every vehicle should "offer" as in maybe a trim level. Not what ever vehicle should be. The 2008 RX 400h had a combined 25 MPG, which is pretty incredible for a SUV (2WD). Amazingly the 2010 450h, which is bigger and heavier gets 30 MPG average (2WD). When you start to look around, its clear how much of a techo marvel this really is and the comparisons below will show you how amazing this vehicle is.

To put that in perspective the Kia Soul with an auto gets 28 MPG and the "fuel efficient" Fit and Yaris get a whooping 1 MPG more than the 450h, 31 MPG. The list is countless of smaller vehicles this vehicle embarrasses with MPG.
Kia Soul-28 MPG
Honda Fit-31 MPG
Toyota Yaris-31 MPG
Mazda 3- 27 MPG
Think about that for a sec.

I am not here to explain that hybrids are what we all should drive. No way at all. My thread is showing how incredible the RXh rating is and how a lot of these small cars are IMO pretty small in regards to MPG. (and I don't want to hear real world experience, we are going with one website here) You don't get 30 MPG like in a Fit or Yaris, a barebones entry level car. You are getting a luxurious vehicle! Quite an amazing feat. So lets compare it to some of its competition and other luxury SUVs in general
RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG
Acura RDX 2WD- 21 MPG
A much smaller SUV now with 2WD, gets 9 MPG less
Audi Q5 AWD- 20 MPG
Another small SUV that gets 10 less MPG? Why is it small exactly?
Acura MDX AWD- 17 MPG
The MDX gets 15 MPG city, the RX literally DOUBLES that while being as fast or faster!

Buick Enclave FWD- 19 MPG
This is a larger SUV but still, the RX destroys it in regards to MPG.
Mercedes ML Bluematic (Diesel)-20 MPG
This is clear RX competition and the RX gets 10 MPG more.
Lexus RX 350 FWD
The new RX gets 21 MPG combined which is better/comparble to its gas only competition but clearly behind the 450h.
New Caddy SRX FWD- 21 MPG
On par with the RX with less power though. Clearly less than the h.
VW Tiguan FWD-21 MPG
Another cute ute that gets 21 MPG
Honda CR-V FWD-23 MPG
A popular cute ute that gets 23 MPG, much smaller, lighter, less luxurious
Toyota Rav-4 FWD V-6
22 MPG, 2nd highest in this group. Amazingly only 1 less than the 4 cylinder CR-V.

So lets look at some odd comparos
RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG
Smart Coupe-33 MPG City
Yes the 3 cylinder, tiny, Smart gets 1 whooping MPG more than the RXh!!!

The Nissan Cube- 29MPG
So this tiny vehicle only gets 29 MPG worse than the 2WD RXh and the same as the AWD model!

Scion xB-24 MPG
Another mini mini vehicle, with pretty dismal overall MPG when u think of small it is.
Chrysler PT Cruiser- 21 MPG
Yes this small vehicle gets 21 MPG total.
Chevy Cobalt XFE-30 MPG
I believe this is a fuel efficent Cobalt and its gets 30 MPG combined. Now lets compare a Cobalt side by side to a RX. Can you BELIEVE they get the same MPG?
Mini Cooper base-29 MPG
The peon sized Mini again gets 1 less than the FWD model and the same as an AWD RXh.

Now for the two sub compact heavyweights
Toyota Corolla-30 MPG
Honda Civic-29 MPG
Ford Focus-27 MPG

So two of the most popular vehicles on the planet might get better MPG than most vehicles but worse/the same as the RXh. At this point I'm pretty shocked at how piss poor MPG is in general.

Now for some mid size heavyweights with 4 cylinders
Nissan Altima- 26 MPG
Toyota Camry-25 MPG
Honda Accord-24 MPG
Ford Fusion-23 MPG

So now I see a couple more trends. One SUVs in some cases don't get much worse MPG than a typical midsize sedan, so can we blame people to sticking with SUVs??? Outside of hybrids, MPG is pretty poor though I am pretty impressed with the Altima MPG (and I can attest to it as my G/F has one). Two Honda and especially Acura as I've stated in the past has some pretty mediocre and worse MPG than most of the competition. Seems the gas hogs in the Fit commercials are other Hondas.

Even if you hate hybrids, you have to admit what the RXh has accomplished here is nothing short of incredible. Not only does it embarrass vehicles in its class but econo vehicles can't match it or barely match it. A damn 3 cylinder car gets 1 more MPG in the city!! On top of those figures, the RXh sells on par or better than all Cute-Utes at a higher MSRP and has for sometime now. Its clear the market WANTS this type of vehicle. Why others haven't jumped on board is unclear. (do they not have the technology or they rather ignore MPG). What is clear is Lexus will continue to lead with hybrids and giving people "the best of both worlds".

RX 450h 2WD-30 MPG, SIMPLY AMAZING!!!

This is like reading North Korean propaganda literature.

Nowhere did you mention price: $60,000 (fully optioned) to get 30mpg is a little steep.

And WHY are you comparing a hybrid SUV to a gas powered CAR?

You then compare it to gasoline vehicles like the Enclave that tops around $46,000....Do you know how much gas one could buy for $14,000 difference.

Then even more LOL when you compare the RXh to a Rav4 V-6 at one third the cost.

Here is the real comparo

Ford Escape Hybrd 34mpg cty 31mpg hwy
Lexus RX 32mpg cty 28mpg hwy
Saturn Vue 25mpg cty 32mpg hwy
Toyota Highlander hybrd 27mpg cty 25mpg hwy

nthach · 08-24-09, 01:12 AM

I think Mike is referring to the MPG and luxury of the RXh to vehicles comparable in size and construction. He can't compare a 2.3 ton RXh to a 1.7 ton Prius

It's also a insult to Honda and VW as well.

pagemaster · 08-24-09, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nthach

I think Mike is referring to the MPG and luxury of the RXh to vehicles comparable in size and construction. He can't compare a 2.3 ton RXh to a 1.7 ton Prius

Right....And the RAV4 V6 2WD offers a whole lot of luxury....it does offer performance though....a whole 1.3 seconds faster 0-60mph and it makes the RAV4 V6 the fastest TOYOTA suv.

He could compare the RAV4 V6 2WD to a RX350 V6 2WD

RAV4 2wd 19cty/27hwy
RX350 2wd 18cty/25hwy

Now that would make sense?

Och · 08-24-09, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagemaster

This is like reading North Korean propaganda literature.

Nowhere did you mention price: $60,000 (fully optioned) to get 30mpg is a little steep.

And WHY are you comparing a hybrid SUV to a gas powered CAR?

You then compare it to gasoline vehicles like the Enclave that tops around $46,000....Do you know how much gas one could buy for $14,000 difference.

Then even more LOL when you compare the RXh to a Rav4 V-6 at one third the cost.

Here is the real comparo

Ford Escape Hybrd 34mpg cty 31mpg hwy
Lexus RX 32mpg cty 28mpg hwy
Saturn Vue 25mpg cty 32mpg hwy
Toyota Highlander hybrd 27mpg cty 25mpg hwy

I dont want to be rude so ill just say you've missed the whole point.

Allen K · 08-24-09, 06:57 AM

Considering the V6 Rav4's curb weight is 3560 and the RX's weight is 4,178 it does make sense. Info is taken off their respective Toyota and Lexus websites for the Limited 2WD Rav 4 and the RX350 FWD

IS-SV · 08-24-09, 07:20 AM

30 mpg and $50K-$60K price is a valid point that needs to be mentioned in the US market. The more successful model at a lower price point is the Toyota Highlander hybrid model.

SLegacy99 · 08-24-09, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagemaster

This is like reading North Korean propaganda literature.

Nowhere did you mention price: $60,000 (fully optioned) to get 30mpg is a little steep.

And WHY are you comparing a hybrid SUV to a gas powered CAR?

I agree with Och, you missed the point of the argument here. A fully optioned RX350 isn't far behind. Yes for a 22 MPG car.

SLegacy99 · 08-24-09, 07:33 AM

I like this blog, I agree with it. Frankly, I've run a number of calcultations (and posted them) in the past few months examining the cost effectiveness of a hybrid model over the non hybrid and I've found that hybrids are making more sense, given gas price increases, state tax rebates, improving technology, and that people are driving their cars longer. But of course, a budget for a Yaris is far driven from one that could afford an RX.

My parents considered trading in their 400h (42,000 miles) for a 450h, but decided against it given that they hadn't gotten their money out of the 400h yet...though the resale value is of course higher than the 350 had they gotten that. Anyway, I would love to drive a 450h and experiment with it. I know the real world MPG is taboo in this thread, but our 250 mile trip yesterday resulted in an average of 30.2 MPG. 95% Hwy, 3 adults, 1 dog, A/C, 89 octane, and speeds of 55 to 70 MPH. I was impressed if you couldn't tell, so I can only imagine what a 450h could do.