Review: 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6MT
07-05-08, 06:18 PM
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Review: 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6MT
By multiple CL member request, a review of the 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6-speed manual transmission.
http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=TL
In a Nutshell: Slick, well-engineered, well-built, and generally attractive, but low-RPM engine response and brakes need a little improvement.
I received multiple CL member requests for a review of the new TL Type-S, preferably the 6-speed manual, and I apologize for not being able to get to it until now. First, nature intervened, to some extent, by giving me a swollen, painful right elbow (my main computer arm) from mouse and computer overuse/strain....that has taken weeks to heal, and is still not quite perfect. Second, I had a standing request from one of my pastors for a VW Passat 2.0T review (for his possible purchase)....I took care of that last week (see my mini-review) with a shortened, simpler written review to save strain on my elbow. Third, Type-S models with the 6-speed manual are not particularly easy to find.....dealerships usually only get one or two of them a month, and they don't last long. But, this morning, a local Acura shop had an un-spoken-for white one available, so I hopped into my Outback and off I went.........you guys have been waiting long enough, and no more excuses. My right elbow, while still not perfect, is good enough, in conjunction with my good left elbow, for a reasonable-length review. And, obviously, I also needed a good right elbow for the manual shift lever. So, let's get on with it......although, in the meantime, Mike (1SICKGOAT) was already written and posted some about the car himself....as usual, quite well.
Most of you who have followed my posts and reviews over time know that the TL, in general, has not been one of my favorite vehicles. In the past, I personally have found the TL to be rather bland, noisy, boring to drive, lacking in personality, and with rather unimpressive interior/trim quality. In a number of ways, I thought the smaller Acura TSX, the Honda Accord, and larger Acura RL were more impressive cars...........especially the rock-solid RL with its superlative SH-AWD, which I had (and still have) an extremely high opinion of. In addition, the TL was plagued with defective automatic transmissions for several years.........those of you who got stuck with lemons know just what I'm talking about, though, to be fair, Acuras are normally quite reliable; more so than most makes.
That, however, was in the past. Today's TL, at least in the Type-S format, is a marked improvement, as you can see by my relatively long list of PLUSSES and short list of MINUSES. I always go into an auto review with an open and objective mind, because, otherwise, you guys are not getting a fair and unbiased view, but simply my own pre-conceived prejudices. After reviews, I honestly was not impressed with former TL's, and I honestly AM more impressed with this one. Acura has done a number of improvements in the latest model, though there are still a couple of flies in the ointment....details, of course, below. And to an extent, the new TL, at least in my view, seems better now than before simply due to the fact that its new brother 2009 TSX is (IMO) such a let-down and disappointment over the superb former 2008 TSX. The new 2009 TSX, in my view, is no longer necessarily a better buy than the 2008 TL. Such was not the case with the 2008 TSX, which I thought, was clearly better than past TL's.
In the American market, Acura, for 2008, markets 2 versions of the TL, base and Type-S. Base TL's have a 3.2L V6 (258 HP/233 ft.-lbs.) and a 5-speed sport-shift automatic; Type-S models have a 3.5L V6 (286 HP/256 ft.-lbs.) with either a 6-speed close-ratio manual or the above-mentioned 5-speed automatic, with paddle shifters unique to the Type-S. (You guys, of course, wanted the Type S with manual). The Type-S package also includes larger Brembo brakes, though the peaky torque curve of the 3.5L V6 and the feel of the brake pedal are, IMO, two of its notable weaknesses.
So now, let's take a look at the car in detail:
Model Reviewed: 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6-speed Manual
Base Price: $38,225
Major Options: None
Destination/Freight: $760
List Price as Reviewed: $38,985
Drivetrain: FWD, transversely-mounted 3.5L SOHC VTEC V6, 286 HP @ 6200 RPM, torque 256 ft.lbs @ 5000 RPM, close-ratio 6-speed manual
transmission with limited-slip differential.
EPA Mileage Ratings: 18 city, 27 Highway
Exterior Color: White Diamond Pearl
Interior: Two-tone Ebony/Silver leather
PLUSSES:
Swiss-Watch build/assembly precision inside and out.
Long 6/70 Acura drivetrain and 4/50 bumper-to-bumper warranties.
Smooth, quiet engine.
Smooth clutch.
Slick, silky-smooth, short-throw shift linkage.
Flat cornering.
Good steering feel and response for a FWD vehicle.
Superlative paint job.
Classy if somewhat dull paint colors.
Less clownlike grille than on other new Acura models.
Good front and rear legroom.
Attractive 2-tone leather seats and 2-tone carbon-fiber interior trim.
Smart-looking, handsome primary gauges.
Well-designed controls and buttons except on steering wheel and NAV/stereo.
Nice stereo sound.
Good road/wind noise isolation.
Well-finished trunk.
Good exterior and interior hardware/trim.
Classy, subdued sport-sedan body features.
Solid body panels/sheet metal.
Hold-up struts for the hood.
Fairly good underhood access for a tight-fitting V6.
MINUSES:
6-speed manuals relatively hard to find.
Engine torque curve too peaky for a sports sedan.
Somewhat spongy brake pedal.
Ugly (IMO) alloy wheels.
Temporary spare tire/wheel.
Tight rear headroom for tall people.
Too many (?) buttons on the steering wheel.
Premium gas required.
EXTERIOR:
The exterior, as you first walk up to it, looks much like past TL's, and, fortunately, does not have the garish, clownlike, "V" grille of some newer Acuras. It has the more subdued, traditional, trapezoid-shaped Acura grille of the past, which, IMO, is far better-looking (I don't know what's with auto stylists these days that they think they have to make vehicles look like they belong in a circus). The TL, to my eyes, is a fairly good-looking sedan, though I don't particularly like the way the stylists have done the lower-side-body flarings on the Type-S.....to me, it makes the sides look a little too slab-like. I also didn't like the (IMO) rather ugly, semi-honeycomb-shaped, smoke-gray alloy wheels, which, to my tastes, looked rather awkward on this car. If I owned this car, those wheels would be the first thing to go, provided I could find better-looking, exact-sized, factory-approved replacements which would not void the warranty. In fact, I'd probably ask the dealership to do a swap with the regular, base TL's wheels/tires, which are the EXACT same size (P235/45 R17) and are (IMO) far better-looking, silver, traditional 5-spokers.
Having said that, however, IMO, the car, in general, is fairly nice-looking......I have certainly seen lots worse. The body lines, except for the afore-mentioned lower-side flarings, are well-done, and, unlike the boy-racer look of some youthful sport sedans (The Type-S, of course, IS marketed as as a FWD sport sedan), has a mature, subdued, classy look....you're not going to confuse it with a Subaru STi or Mitsubishi Evo. Instead of a tall, garish wing, A small, low, body-colored spoiler on the rear of the trunk lid and a small red/white/black "Type S" logo quietly announce to the world (and to traffic cops) that this is not Grandma's TL.
And Acura certainly did not skimp with the paint. The Type-S has one of the best non-Lexus paint jobs I have seen....smooth as a baby's butt, virtually free of orange-peel, and even as a mirror surface, though the White Diamond color on my test car naturally didn't have the deep reflective gloss that many darker colors have. The Type-S (and base TL) paint color choice, to best describe it, is somewhat classy but dull.....you won't find yellows, bright reds, oranges, etc...
Nor did Acura skimp on exterior material quality. The body panels, hood, trunk, etc....did not feel quite as solid or tanklike as last week's VW Passat, but were nevertheless solid and of high-quality, and mounted and aligned with a Swiss-Watch precision and small panel gaps that outdid even the VW's. Doors, hood, and trunk lid open and close with a precision solidness that shows this is a Honda-designed product. All exterior trim and mirrors are well-done, solid, and of high quality. Underhood, nice struts hold things up instead of the new TSX's El Cheapo prop-rod.
UNDERHOOD:
Open the hood (I've already mentioned the nice struts), and the 3.5L, transversely-mounted V6 and 6-speed manual fit in OK, with at least some room to work on the front side of the engine despite the large, ubuquitous plastic engine cover and the plastic-covered components on each side of it. It's a fairly tight, but not overly tight, fit, and some components, such as the oxygen sensor, can easily be reached in the space between the back of the radiator, engine fan, and engine block. Dipsticks and fluid reserviors are handily accessable, but the battery is hidden under a cover. An underhood insulation pad helps quell some of the engine noise and helps with the car's quiet ride.........more on that below. (Of course, as a sports sedan, it's not supposed to be excessively quiet like a Lexus LS460).
INTERIOR:
Inside, you know immediately you are in a well-made, classy interior. The handsome, two-tone dark gray/light gray leather seats (Taupe is also available on The Type S) in my test car were comfortable and had a nice grade of leather (not quite as soft-grade leather as in a Lexus or Jaguar). The side bolstering was a little flat, though, for a sport sedan. I also liked the classy looks of the clear, white-on-black primary gauges and their red trim rings. The steering wheel, with its proper three-spoke design, had a nice, smooth leather covering, but had, IMO, too many buttons mounted on it .......it was easy to hit one of the buttons inadvertantly flipping the wheel around or if, like me, you sometimes subconsciously rest your hand on or grip the spoke flaring. Not a bad design per se, but one where you have to be careful how you hold the wheel, that's all. Like in the VW Passat last week, it may take some fiddling with the power seats and tilt wheel for a big/tall person (I am 6' 2" and 260 lbs.) to get comfortable and have their knees clear the lower part of the front dash. Headroom, with the sunroof housing, was OK in front and marginal in the rear for a tall person........legroom was good, both front and rear, for both tall and short persons.
I normally prefer wood trim, which does not come in the Type-S (only the base TL), but there was no denying that the two-tone silver/gray carbon-fiber trim on the dash and door panels was super-classy and extremely well-done; I would be as happy with it as with the wood. All of the interior hardware and trim was made of relatively high-quality materials (no cheap dime-store stuff for the TL). I was also quite impressed with the TL's control layout, except for the afore-mentioned steering-wheel buttons and the somewhat more-complex-than-usual (for a Honda-Acura design) operation of the integrated stereo/NAV unit buttons/controls (standard on the Type-S). The NAV's cursor is moved by a very small, joystick/button-shaped control under the screen that is somewhat awkward to grasp and swivel around. The stereo itself, while not quite the Lexus Mark Levinson for sophistication (I often use the Mark Levinson units as the auto-industry benchmark) had better-than-average sound quality, as, of course, a car of this class should have.
All in all, a quite nicely-done interior, far better, IMO, than previous TL's.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Lift the high-quality trunk lid and you are greeted with a reasonably large, well-finished trunk, which is lined with a semi-plush, medium-gray color carpeting. Like most of today's sedans, the raked rear roofline cuts into the size of the trunk opening, but it is large enough to accomodate reasonably-sized luggage and cargo, and there is adequate space under the lid going back to the rear seatbacks. Here, though, is where the Acura bean-counters recovered some of the money back that was spent on the car's otherwise high-quality components. The rear seats themselves don't fold down, but instead have a small, pass-through, flip-down hole to accomodate long items such as skis and fishing poles. And, underneath the trunk floor, you will find a full-size, though temporary, spare tire/wheel instead of the real spare tire/wheel that, IMO, would be more proper in a car of this class. Still, it beats the cheap Fix-a Flat compressed-air bottle that some cars nowadays give you...yes, some cars at almost twice this price.
ON THE ROAD:
Start the 3.5L V6 up with a conventional-style metal key with electronic transponder (oddly, no engine START/STOP button like in some competitors) and, at once, the usual (and expected) Honda-Acura silky-smooth, quiet idle kicks in...this engine idles as eerie-smooth as many Lexus powerplants. Warm it up a minute, though, and hit the road, and you notice one problem right away.....the low RPM lack of torque and delayed throttle response that is a characteristic of so many VTEC Honda/Acura-designed motors, even with manual transmissions which are inherently more efficient than automatics. This motor is no exception........a peek at its torque curve shows max torque at 5000 RPM, well above the range that most American drivers rev to in their daily driving habits. Now, mind you, this engine is not exactly slow, and if you give it enough revs (being a brand-new engine, I didn't take it above 4500), you do start to feel a shove in the back around 4000 or so. But such all-or-nothing torque characteristics, IMO, are not desirable or fitting in a purpose-designed sport sedan. This is one area where the American-nameplate sport sedan/muscle cars like the Pontiac G8 GT (actually an Australian design with an American engine), Dodge Charger, and Chevy Impala SS are superior to many (not all) of their foreign-nameplate competitors....the American-nameplate sport sedans generally provide more instantaneous, low-RPM torque, though, in FWD V8 sport sedans like the Impala SS, that can mean a lot of torque steer. Still, though the low-RPM torque could be better (the VW Passat's 2.0L turbo 4, to me, actually felt stonger in that RPM range), the Type-S 3.5L is still no slouch if you give it some gas...it will get out of its own way. And, also characteristic of Honda/Acura engines, the 3.5L is smooth and quiet at speed, with silky-smooth power delivery. It is best described as a touring engine, rather than a classic unrefined Friday-Night drag-strip engine for dusting off Mustangs and Corvettes.
And the 6-speed manual transmission is a real jewel. I dare say that (arguably) Honda and Acura make the best FWD manual transmissions and shift linkages on the planet. I have yet to see one that didn't shift like a (to use the old cliche) a Swiss Watch....this one, not surprisingly, was no exception, although you sometimes have to be careful on the 5-6 upshift that you don't catch 4th by mistake (that won't do a brand-new engine much good). I was alert, caught it in a split-second, and didn't overrev the new engine. That 5-6 shift will probably get better with break-in miles. The clutch was generally smooth and problem-free, engaging right in the zone you would expect it to.....not with the pedal too low or too high off the floor. Some of the older Honda manuals had tall gearing more for fuel economy than performance (my brother's old Civic CX was like that) and, while jewel-like in their shifting like all Honda FWD manuals, required a lot of clutch-slipping to get them rolling from a start. That was certainly not the case with the Type-S....just give it a few RPM's, let the clutch out reasonably carefully, and go. Those of you (most of you, in fact), who requested the 6MT version rather than the sport-shift automatic for the review.........your request, IMO, is justified. This transmission and clutch, IMO, is silky enough that it's a pleasure to use, even with the traditional inconvenience and hassle of a manual transmission in heavy stop-and-go traffic (many people still want the automatic, though, and, silky linkage or not, an automatic or clutchless-manual may still be worth it in really bad traffic).
So much for the drivetrain.........how does the chassis and suspension do? Overall, pretty well, although, with the FWD set-up, one does not expect, or get, BMW-sharp steering feel and response. The steering, however, is good by FWD standards, and it is roughly the same feel and response as the Honda Accord EX-L V6 coupe I tested in January...a system I was generally pleased with. Cornering response is initially sight understeer, with a well-snubbed lack of body roll, though, of course, not as flat or quick as with low-slung RWD sports cars. Steering feel is a little firmer than your typical Camry/Sonata/non-EX Accord class of sedan, but it seems to be more a built-in slight hydraulic firmness in the power steering valves, rather than a true natural feel like the superb telepathic BMW systems. Ride comfort is a little on the firm side for my tastes (as with most cars these days), but, by the standards of many of today's drivers, is not bad at all, and only borderline firm. Bumps and road imperfections are felt, and sometimes heard, but the suspension and tires (low-profile 45-series) won't shake your fillings out or pound your kidneys like, say, a Mitsubishi Evo's. (Still, given the choice, I like true luxury-car-soft suspensions, which are more and more difficult to find these days). Noise level is helped by the underhood insulation pad, good weatherstrip-sealing, high-quality glass on the windows, and the tight, Swiss-Watch assembly of the car. Even the road/tire noise that is often present in many other Honda/Acura products is somewhat lacking in the Type-S...surprising with its performance-oriented all-season tires.
Brakes, while a Brembo upgrade on the Type S with larger 12.2" front rotors, could, IMO, nevertheless still use some improvement. For a sport sedan, there is too much free play in the brake pedal travel. An inch or so of play is followed by a little sponginess, and then they finally start to bite. This was a brand-new car, of course, and how the pads/rotors will feel after 1000 break-in miles, I can't say, but I've driven some of the Type-S competitors, notably from BMW and Audi, and their brake pedals had a rock-firm feel from Day One. In addition, of course, the TL's FWD setup is not an ideal one for brake distribution and getting all four wheels to do their share of the braking loads, even with electronic braking aids...there will always be a certain amount of nose-heaviness. Fortunately, the brake-pedal placement (aluminum sport-pedals in the Type-S) is fine for my big size-15 feet...there are no problems with my long, wide, clown-shoe getting caught under either the brake or gas pedals while shifting my right foot back and forth for braking.
THE VERDICT:
I have to admit, with the latest 2008 TL, and particularly the Type-S, I've changed my mind somewhat over my opinion of earlier versions. Acura has made a number of quality and design improvements to the TL-series since I last drove one a few years ago (a test-drive/review I was less-than-impressed with), and they have seemed to have done this without a total redesign. At the same time, as I stated in the opening section, the new little-brother Acura TSX, which I formerly had a higher opinion of than the TL, has been so much of a disappointment in its new 2009 version that the new TL handily dusts it off in many areas, and is now, IMO, a better buy than the new TSX. But a new, first-time, AWD system is coming soon for little-brother TSX; Acura, IMO, would be wise to fit its superb SH-AWD system to the TL, something it has not done yet, though the same basic system can be found in the MDX, RDX, and RL, so conversion/engineering costs for the TL AWD would be minimal.
And, as it stands, even though I am far more impressed with the new TL than with earlier versions, there are still a few flies in the ointment that need a fly-swatter. The engine torque curve is simply too peaky and is not conducive to true sports-sedan driving. The power-assist for the brake pedal, even with the superb Brembo rotors, pads, and calipers, needs to be redesigned to take out the free play and sponginess. And a few interior features like the over-buttoned steering wheel and complex (for a Honda) NAV-stereo system could use a minor redesign. But, overall, a major, and pleasant, improvement over previous TL's........well done, Acura.
http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=TL
In a Nutshell: Slick, well-engineered, well-built, and generally attractive, but low-RPM engine response and brakes need a little improvement.
I received multiple CL member requests for a review of the new TL Type-S, preferably the 6-speed manual, and I apologize for not being able to get to it until now. First, nature intervened, to some extent, by giving me a swollen, painful right elbow (my main computer arm) from mouse and computer overuse/strain....that has taken weeks to heal, and is still not quite perfect. Second, I had a standing request from one of my pastors for a VW Passat 2.0T review (for his possible purchase)....I took care of that last week (see my mini-review) with a shortened, simpler written review to save strain on my elbow. Third, Type-S models with the 6-speed manual are not particularly easy to find.....dealerships usually only get one or two of them a month, and they don't last long. But, this morning, a local Acura shop had an un-spoken-for white one available, so I hopped into my Outback and off I went.........you guys have been waiting long enough, and no more excuses. My right elbow, while still not perfect, is good enough, in conjunction with my good left elbow, for a reasonable-length review. And, obviously, I also needed a good right elbow for the manual shift lever. So, let's get on with it......although, in the meantime, Mike (1SICKGOAT) was already written and posted some about the car himself....as usual, quite well.
Most of you who have followed my posts and reviews over time know that the TL, in general, has not been one of my favorite vehicles. In the past, I personally have found the TL to be rather bland, noisy, boring to drive, lacking in personality, and with rather unimpressive interior/trim quality. In a number of ways, I thought the smaller Acura TSX, the Honda Accord, and larger Acura RL were more impressive cars...........especially the rock-solid RL with its superlative SH-AWD, which I had (and still have) an extremely high opinion of. In addition, the TL was plagued with defective automatic transmissions for several years.........those of you who got stuck with lemons know just what I'm talking about, though, to be fair, Acuras are normally quite reliable; more so than most makes.
That, however, was in the past. Today's TL, at least in the Type-S format, is a marked improvement, as you can see by my relatively long list of PLUSSES and short list of MINUSES. I always go into an auto review with an open and objective mind, because, otherwise, you guys are not getting a fair and unbiased view, but simply my own pre-conceived prejudices. After reviews, I honestly was not impressed with former TL's, and I honestly AM more impressed with this one. Acura has done a number of improvements in the latest model, though there are still a couple of flies in the ointment....details, of course, below. And to an extent, the new TL, at least in my view, seems better now than before simply due to the fact that its new brother 2009 TSX is (IMO) such a let-down and disappointment over the superb former 2008 TSX. The new 2009 TSX, in my view, is no longer necessarily a better buy than the 2008 TL. Such was not the case with the 2008 TSX, which I thought, was clearly better than past TL's.
In the American market, Acura, for 2008, markets 2 versions of the TL, base and Type-S. Base TL's have a 3.2L V6 (258 HP/233 ft.-lbs.) and a 5-speed sport-shift automatic; Type-S models have a 3.5L V6 (286 HP/256 ft.-lbs.) with either a 6-speed close-ratio manual or the above-mentioned 5-speed automatic, with paddle shifters unique to the Type-S. (You guys, of course, wanted the Type S with manual). The Type-S package also includes larger Brembo brakes, though the peaky torque curve of the 3.5L V6 and the feel of the brake pedal are, IMO, two of its notable weaknesses.
So now, let's take a look at the car in detail:
Model Reviewed: 2008 Acura TL Type-S 6-speed Manual
Base Price: $38,225
Major Options: None
Destination/Freight: $760
List Price as Reviewed: $38,985
Drivetrain: FWD, transversely-mounted 3.5L SOHC VTEC V6, 286 HP @ 6200 RPM, torque 256 ft.lbs @ 5000 RPM, close-ratio 6-speed manual
transmission with limited-slip differential.
EPA Mileage Ratings: 18 city, 27 Highway
Exterior Color: White Diamond Pearl
Interior: Two-tone Ebony/Silver leather
PLUSSES:
Swiss-Watch build/assembly precision inside and out.
Long 6/70 Acura drivetrain and 4/50 bumper-to-bumper warranties.
Smooth, quiet engine.
Smooth clutch.
Slick, silky-smooth, short-throw shift linkage.
Flat cornering.
Good steering feel and response for a FWD vehicle.
Superlative paint job.
Classy if somewhat dull paint colors.
Less clownlike grille than on other new Acura models.
Good front and rear legroom.
Attractive 2-tone leather seats and 2-tone carbon-fiber interior trim.
Smart-looking, handsome primary gauges.
Well-designed controls and buttons except on steering wheel and NAV/stereo.
Nice stereo sound.
Good road/wind noise isolation.
Well-finished trunk.
Good exterior and interior hardware/trim.
Classy, subdued sport-sedan body features.
Solid body panels/sheet metal.
Hold-up struts for the hood.
Fairly good underhood access for a tight-fitting V6.
MINUSES:
6-speed manuals relatively hard to find.
Engine torque curve too peaky for a sports sedan.
Somewhat spongy brake pedal.
Ugly (IMO) alloy wheels.
Temporary spare tire/wheel.
Tight rear headroom for tall people.
Too many (?) buttons on the steering wheel.
Premium gas required.
EXTERIOR:
The exterior, as you first walk up to it, looks much like past TL's, and, fortunately, does not have the garish, clownlike, "V" grille of some newer Acuras. It has the more subdued, traditional, trapezoid-shaped Acura grille of the past, which, IMO, is far better-looking (I don't know what's with auto stylists these days that they think they have to make vehicles look like they belong in a circus). The TL, to my eyes, is a fairly good-looking sedan, though I don't particularly like the way the stylists have done the lower-side-body flarings on the Type-S.....to me, it makes the sides look a little too slab-like. I also didn't like the (IMO) rather ugly, semi-honeycomb-shaped, smoke-gray alloy wheels, which, to my tastes, looked rather awkward on this car. If I owned this car, those wheels would be the first thing to go, provided I could find better-looking, exact-sized, factory-approved replacements which would not void the warranty. In fact, I'd probably ask the dealership to do a swap with the regular, base TL's wheels/tires, which are the EXACT same size (P235/45 R17) and are (IMO) far better-looking, silver, traditional 5-spokers.
Having said that, however, IMO, the car, in general, is fairly nice-looking......I have certainly seen lots worse. The body lines, except for the afore-mentioned lower-side flarings, are well-done, and, unlike the boy-racer look of some youthful sport sedans (The Type-S, of course, IS marketed as as a FWD sport sedan), has a mature, subdued, classy look....you're not going to confuse it with a Subaru STi or Mitsubishi Evo. Instead of a tall, garish wing, A small, low, body-colored spoiler on the rear of the trunk lid and a small red/white/black "Type S" logo quietly announce to the world (and to traffic cops) that this is not Grandma's TL.
And Acura certainly did not skimp with the paint. The Type-S has one of the best non-Lexus paint jobs I have seen....smooth as a baby's butt, virtually free of orange-peel, and even as a mirror surface, though the White Diamond color on my test car naturally didn't have the deep reflective gloss that many darker colors have. The Type-S (and base TL) paint color choice, to best describe it, is somewhat classy but dull.....you won't find yellows, bright reds, oranges, etc...
Nor did Acura skimp on exterior material quality. The body panels, hood, trunk, etc....did not feel quite as solid or tanklike as last week's VW Passat, but were nevertheless solid and of high-quality, and mounted and aligned with a Swiss-Watch precision and small panel gaps that outdid even the VW's. Doors, hood, and trunk lid open and close with a precision solidness that shows this is a Honda-designed product. All exterior trim and mirrors are well-done, solid, and of high quality. Underhood, nice struts hold things up instead of the new TSX's El Cheapo prop-rod.
UNDERHOOD:
Open the hood (I've already mentioned the nice struts), and the 3.5L, transversely-mounted V6 and 6-speed manual fit in OK, with at least some room to work on the front side of the engine despite the large, ubuquitous plastic engine cover and the plastic-covered components on each side of it. It's a fairly tight, but not overly tight, fit, and some components, such as the oxygen sensor, can easily be reached in the space between the back of the radiator, engine fan, and engine block. Dipsticks and fluid reserviors are handily accessable, but the battery is hidden under a cover. An underhood insulation pad helps quell some of the engine noise and helps with the car's quiet ride.........more on that below. (Of course, as a sports sedan, it's not supposed to be excessively quiet like a Lexus LS460).
INTERIOR:
Inside, you know immediately you are in a well-made, classy interior. The handsome, two-tone dark gray/light gray leather seats (Taupe is also available on The Type S) in my test car were comfortable and had a nice grade of leather (not quite as soft-grade leather as in a Lexus or Jaguar). The side bolstering was a little flat, though, for a sport sedan. I also liked the classy looks of the clear, white-on-black primary gauges and their red trim rings. The steering wheel, with its proper three-spoke design, had a nice, smooth leather covering, but had, IMO, too many buttons mounted on it .......it was easy to hit one of the buttons inadvertantly flipping the wheel around or if, like me, you sometimes subconsciously rest your hand on or grip the spoke flaring. Not a bad design per se, but one where you have to be careful how you hold the wheel, that's all. Like in the VW Passat last week, it may take some fiddling with the power seats and tilt wheel for a big/tall person (I am 6' 2" and 260 lbs.) to get comfortable and have their knees clear the lower part of the front dash. Headroom, with the sunroof housing, was OK in front and marginal in the rear for a tall person........legroom was good, both front and rear, for both tall and short persons.
I normally prefer wood trim, which does not come in the Type-S (only the base TL), but there was no denying that the two-tone silver/gray carbon-fiber trim on the dash and door panels was super-classy and extremely well-done; I would be as happy with it as with the wood. All of the interior hardware and trim was made of relatively high-quality materials (no cheap dime-store stuff for the TL). I was also quite impressed with the TL's control layout, except for the afore-mentioned steering-wheel buttons and the somewhat more-complex-than-usual (for a Honda-Acura design) operation of the integrated stereo/NAV unit buttons/controls (standard on the Type-S). The NAV's cursor is moved by a very small, joystick/button-shaped control under the screen that is somewhat awkward to grasp and swivel around. The stereo itself, while not quite the Lexus Mark Levinson for sophistication (I often use the Mark Levinson units as the auto-industry benchmark) had better-than-average sound quality, as, of course, a car of this class should have.
All in all, a quite nicely-done interior, far better, IMO, than previous TL's.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Lift the high-quality trunk lid and you are greeted with a reasonably large, well-finished trunk, which is lined with a semi-plush, medium-gray color carpeting. Like most of today's sedans, the raked rear roofline cuts into the size of the trunk opening, but it is large enough to accomodate reasonably-sized luggage and cargo, and there is adequate space under the lid going back to the rear seatbacks. Here, though, is where the Acura bean-counters recovered some of the money back that was spent on the car's otherwise high-quality components. The rear seats themselves don't fold down, but instead have a small, pass-through, flip-down hole to accomodate long items such as skis and fishing poles. And, underneath the trunk floor, you will find a full-size, though temporary, spare tire/wheel instead of the real spare tire/wheel that, IMO, would be more proper in a car of this class. Still, it beats the cheap Fix-a Flat compressed-air bottle that some cars nowadays give you...yes, some cars at almost twice this price.
ON THE ROAD:
Start the 3.5L V6 up with a conventional-style metal key with electronic transponder (oddly, no engine START/STOP button like in some competitors) and, at once, the usual (and expected) Honda-Acura silky-smooth, quiet idle kicks in...this engine idles as eerie-smooth as many Lexus powerplants. Warm it up a minute, though, and hit the road, and you notice one problem right away.....the low RPM lack of torque and delayed throttle response that is a characteristic of so many VTEC Honda/Acura-designed motors, even with manual transmissions which are inherently more efficient than automatics. This motor is no exception........a peek at its torque curve shows max torque at 5000 RPM, well above the range that most American drivers rev to in their daily driving habits. Now, mind you, this engine is not exactly slow, and if you give it enough revs (being a brand-new engine, I didn't take it above 4500), you do start to feel a shove in the back around 4000 or so. But such all-or-nothing torque characteristics, IMO, are not desirable or fitting in a purpose-designed sport sedan. This is one area where the American-nameplate sport sedan/muscle cars like the Pontiac G8 GT (actually an Australian design with an American engine), Dodge Charger, and Chevy Impala SS are superior to many (not all) of their foreign-nameplate competitors....the American-nameplate sport sedans generally provide more instantaneous, low-RPM torque, though, in FWD V8 sport sedans like the Impala SS, that can mean a lot of torque steer. Still, though the low-RPM torque could be better (the VW Passat's 2.0L turbo 4, to me, actually felt stonger in that RPM range), the Type-S 3.5L is still no slouch if you give it some gas...it will get out of its own way. And, also characteristic of Honda/Acura engines, the 3.5L is smooth and quiet at speed, with silky-smooth power delivery. It is best described as a touring engine, rather than a classic unrefined Friday-Night drag-strip engine for dusting off Mustangs and Corvettes.
And the 6-speed manual transmission is a real jewel. I dare say that (arguably) Honda and Acura make the best FWD manual transmissions and shift linkages on the planet. I have yet to see one that didn't shift like a (to use the old cliche) a Swiss Watch....this one, not surprisingly, was no exception, although you sometimes have to be careful on the 5-6 upshift that you don't catch 4th by mistake (that won't do a brand-new engine much good). I was alert, caught it in a split-second, and didn't overrev the new engine. That 5-6 shift will probably get better with break-in miles. The clutch was generally smooth and problem-free, engaging right in the zone you would expect it to.....not with the pedal too low or too high off the floor. Some of the older Honda manuals had tall gearing more for fuel economy than performance (my brother's old Civic CX was like that) and, while jewel-like in their shifting like all Honda FWD manuals, required a lot of clutch-slipping to get them rolling from a start. That was certainly not the case with the Type-S....just give it a few RPM's, let the clutch out reasonably carefully, and go. Those of you (most of you, in fact), who requested the 6MT version rather than the sport-shift automatic for the review.........your request, IMO, is justified. This transmission and clutch, IMO, is silky enough that it's a pleasure to use, even with the traditional inconvenience and hassle of a manual transmission in heavy stop-and-go traffic (many people still want the automatic, though, and, silky linkage or not, an automatic or clutchless-manual may still be worth it in really bad traffic).
So much for the drivetrain.........how does the chassis and suspension do? Overall, pretty well, although, with the FWD set-up, one does not expect, or get, BMW-sharp steering feel and response. The steering, however, is good by FWD standards, and it is roughly the same feel and response as the Honda Accord EX-L V6 coupe I tested in January...a system I was generally pleased with. Cornering response is initially sight understeer, with a well-snubbed lack of body roll, though, of course, not as flat or quick as with low-slung RWD sports cars. Steering feel is a little firmer than your typical Camry/Sonata/non-EX Accord class of sedan, but it seems to be more a built-in slight hydraulic firmness in the power steering valves, rather than a true natural feel like the superb telepathic BMW systems. Ride comfort is a little on the firm side for my tastes (as with most cars these days), but, by the standards of many of today's drivers, is not bad at all, and only borderline firm. Bumps and road imperfections are felt, and sometimes heard, but the suspension and tires (low-profile 45-series) won't shake your fillings out or pound your kidneys like, say, a Mitsubishi Evo's. (Still, given the choice, I like true luxury-car-soft suspensions, which are more and more difficult to find these days). Noise level is helped by the underhood insulation pad, good weatherstrip-sealing, high-quality glass on the windows, and the tight, Swiss-Watch assembly of the car. Even the road/tire noise that is often present in many other Honda/Acura products is somewhat lacking in the Type-S...surprising with its performance-oriented all-season tires.
Brakes, while a Brembo upgrade on the Type S with larger 12.2" front rotors, could, IMO, nevertheless still use some improvement. For a sport sedan, there is too much free play in the brake pedal travel. An inch or so of play is followed by a little sponginess, and then they finally start to bite. This was a brand-new car, of course, and how the pads/rotors will feel after 1000 break-in miles, I can't say, but I've driven some of the Type-S competitors, notably from BMW and Audi, and their brake pedals had a rock-firm feel from Day One. In addition, of course, the TL's FWD setup is not an ideal one for brake distribution and getting all four wheels to do their share of the braking loads, even with electronic braking aids...there will always be a certain amount of nose-heaviness. Fortunately, the brake-pedal placement (aluminum sport-pedals in the Type-S) is fine for my big size-15 feet...there are no problems with my long, wide, clown-shoe getting caught under either the brake or gas pedals while shifting my right foot back and forth for braking.
THE VERDICT:
I have to admit, with the latest 2008 TL, and particularly the Type-S, I've changed my mind somewhat over my opinion of earlier versions. Acura has made a number of quality and design improvements to the TL-series since I last drove one a few years ago (a test-drive/review I was less-than-impressed with), and they have seemed to have done this without a total redesign. At the same time, as I stated in the opening section, the new little-brother Acura TSX, which I formerly had a higher opinion of than the TL, has been so much of a disappointment in its new 2009 version that the new TL handily dusts it off in many areas, and is now, IMO, a better buy than the new TSX. But a new, first-time, AWD system is coming soon for little-brother TSX; Acura, IMO, would be wise to fit its superb SH-AWD system to the TL, something it has not done yet, though the same basic system can be found in the MDX, RDX, and RL, so conversion/engineering costs for the TL AWD would be minimal.
And, as it stands, even though I am far more impressed with the new TL than with earlier versions, there are still a few flies in the ointment that need a fly-swatter. The engine torque curve is simply too peaky and is not conducive to true sports-sedan driving. The power-assist for the brake pedal, even with the superb Brembo rotors, pads, and calipers, needs to be redesigned to take out the free play and sponginess. And a few interior features like the over-buttoned steering wheel and complex (for a Honda) NAV-stereo system could use a minor redesign. But, overall, a major, and pleasant, improvement over previous TL's........well done, Acura.
Last edited by mmarshall; 07-05-08 at 09:14 PM.
07-05-08, 06:46 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
For my money, yes.
The base car, IMO, does have better-looking stock wheels and better-looking lower-body panels without the awkward, slab-like flares, but not much else. Its double-wishbone/multi-link suspension and tire sizes are exactly the same as the Type-S (so it won't ride any smoother). It has less engine, less-powerful brakes, and it lacks the manual-transmission option of the Type-S. And the Type-S exterior package, as I noted in the review, is tasteful, subdued, and doesn't scream boy-racer to the world. While I would normally prefer the wood of the base model, the Type S has superb dual-tone carbon-fiber trim. So, in my view, it's a no-brainer........Type S all the way.
was the Type-S worth the price premium over the base TL?
The base car, IMO, does have better-looking stock wheels and better-looking lower-body panels without the awkward, slab-like flares, but not much else. Its double-wishbone/multi-link suspension and tire sizes are exactly the same as the Type-S (so it won't ride any smoother). It has less engine, less-powerful brakes, and it lacks the manual-transmission option of the Type-S. And the Type-S exterior package, as I noted in the review, is tasteful, subdued, and doesn't scream boy-racer to the world. While I would normally prefer the wood of the base model, the Type S has superb dual-tone carbon-fiber trim. So, in my view, it's a no-brainer........Type S all the way.
07-05-08, 08:16 PM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
The exhaust system is not quite what it seems, however. The quad tips sticking out the back are real...they come out of two rear mufflers in back. But the central exhaust pipe, in a bow to cost-cutting with expensive catalysts, runs in a single tube from the exhaust manifolds back through a single catalytic converter and heat shield to the rear, where it then splits into the dual rear mufflers and quad tips.
07-05-08, 09:05 PM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Arguably, yes, though I was a big fan of the third-generation Integra.
I thought it a far nicer and more solidly-built car than the RSX that replaced it.
The chief problem for the stylists will be to avoid that ridiculous inverted V-Grin grille on other new Acuras. I'd bet the monthly rent they don't.......and the next-generation 2009 TL, like the 2009 TSX, ends up with it. Here's one of the possible spy shots:
I thought it a far nicer and more solidly-built car than the RSX that replaced it.
Hopefully the next one wont be too disappointing!
Here's one of the possible spy shots:
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07-05-08, 09:22 PM
#8
Arguably, yes, though I was a big fan of the third-generation Integra.
I thought it a far nicer and more solidly-built car than the RSX that replaced it.
The chief problem for the stylists will be to avoid that ridiculous inverted V-Grin grille on other new Acuras. I'd bet the monthly rent they don't.......and the next-generation 2009 TL, like the 2009 TSX, ends up with it. Here's one of the possible spy shots:
I thought it a far nicer and more solidly-built car than the RSX that replaced it.
The chief problem for the stylists will be to avoid that ridiculous inverted V-Grin grille on other new Acuras. I'd bet the monthly rent they don't.......and the next-generation 2009 TL, like the 2009 TSX, ends up with it.
Here's one of the possible spy shots: 
07-05-08, 09:23 PM
#9
Another great review mmarshall, hope the arm is feeling better. I was so close to getting this car over the IS, but I didn't in the end because I wanted something other than a FWD Honda/Acura product ( I was coming from a 2000 Accord v6).
I test drove the automatic TL-S (what you said is true, manuals are hard to find) and I redlined that thing after seeing the salesperson do it first. The car, even the automatic, pulls just as hard as my 350 and it was fun to push.
However, one of the most negative things with the automatic was that it just didn't want to coast to a stop. Every time I hit a red light on the test drive, I got off the gas and was rewarded with a jerky downshift. But overall fit and finish was fantastic with that thing
P.S. did you see any of the Kinetic Blue Pearls on the lot? It's a dark blue/purple combo, and the best color IMO other than black on that car.
I test drove the automatic TL-S (what you said is true, manuals are hard to find) and I redlined that thing after seeing the salesperson do it first
. The car, even the automatic, pulls just as hard as my 350 and it was fun to push. However, one of the most negative things with the automatic was that it just didn't want to coast to a stop. Every time I hit a red light on the test drive, I got off the gas and was rewarded with a jerky downshift. But overall fit and finish was fantastic with that thing
P.S. did you see any of the Kinetic Blue Pearls on the lot? It's a dark blue/purple combo, and the best color IMO other than black on that car.
07-05-08, 09:31 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Yes, I posted it mainly to show the new Acura "family" grille design, not necessarily as the next TL per se.....though the google image site did mention it as a possible next TL guess of what it more or less would look like..
07-05-08, 09:33 PM
#11
Speaks French in Russian
Nice review. I drove one in the same color combo you did last month. They make a nice white. Anyway, surprised you saw a difference on the interior. Everything looked and felt the same to me since they first came out back in 2004. I personally couldnt find a big difference in anything that would make me want to purchase this over the regular TL. Same features, bigger engine that feels no faster than a 04-06 TL 6-speed. Plus the TL-S cost about 40K. Just couldnt see the value in it. And yes, the manual is super slick. I love it!! No one does it better than Honda IMO.
With that said its still one of my favorite Acuras to date. Just wish the improvements that they made were more significant.
They make a nice white. Anyway, surprised you saw a difference on the interior. Everything looked and felt the same to me since they first came out back in 2004. I personally couldnt find a big difference in anything that would make me want to purchase this over the regular TL. Same features, bigger engine that feels no faster than a 04-06 TL 6-speed. Plus the TL-S cost about 40K. Just couldnt see the value in it. And yes, the manual is super slick. I love it!! No one does it better than Honda IMO.With that said its still one of my favorite Acuras to date. Just wish the improvements that they made were more significant.
07-05-08, 09:39 PM
#12
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks. It is. Time (and a rest) was mostly what it needed.
I hope it had at least 1000 miles on it and was broken-in when you guys decided to play Michael Shumacher. 
More or less typical with fluid-filled, torque-converter automatics. They usually have less engine-braking than clutch-pedal manuals.
Yes, I did, but the review requests were specifically for a 6MT.....the blue ones were automatic. There was only one Type-S manual on the lot..........a White Pearl one.
It is. Time (and a rest) was mostly what it needed.
I test drove the automatic TL-S (what you said is true, manuals are hard to find) and I redlined that thing after seeing the salesperson do it first . The car, even the automatic, pulls just as hard as my 350 and it was fun to push.
. The car, even the automatic, pulls just as hard as my 350 and it was fun to push.
However, one of the most negative things with the automatic was that it just didn't want to coast to a stop.
P.S. did you see any of the Kinetic Blue Pearls on the lot? It's a dark blue/purple combo, and the best color IMO other than black on that car.
07-06-08, 03:38 AM
#14
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Some salespeople are so intent on making a sale that they don't care what they do to impress a customer and make that sale.....even abuse the vehicle to show it off. Fortunately, they are becoming fewer and farther between.
07-06-08, 08:52 AM
#15
mmarshall, next time you are in the TL, hold the front door handle and try to twist it with a little bit of force and let me what you think. I was a HUGE fan of TL's interior before I did that experiment... Still a fan of the interior styling though but no long of the quality.