mmarshall

I know what you are referring to. No car today has the same solid metal hardware that big, tanklike American cars did 50 years ago..........but, by today's standards, and those of the inherently lighter and less durable trim materials in widespread use today, those in the TL are quite good.

You must remember that cars today are designed and built with lighter materials and weight control in mind, for fuel economy and acceleration......that was not the case decades ago. It's not necessarily the way I like my cars, but it is the reality of today's political and economic auto world.

Threxx

Good review. You and I seem to agree on the handling and suspension/chassis dynamics as well as the powertrain characteristics. It's not a race car, even in Type-S / 6MT flavor, which is just not that much different than the regular/auto variant. Slightly improvement but nothing miraculous.

I really like the TL overall and even recommended one (an 05 auto) to my friend but he has had way more problems with it than any other car he has owned - in fact the transmission is being replaced right now, which supposedly isn't really an issue anymore. I think he just got unlucky though.

By the way I might have missed it in your review but one thing that helps in the TL is the noise inversion feature it uses... I've always wanted to try pulling the fuse on the stereo or inversion system to see what difference I can actually tell with and without it.

mmarshall

Thanks.

If Acura, however, could just remap the engine's torque curve and power-brake-assist characteristics a little, it would be a lot more of a sports sedan, despite the FWD layout, than it is now. Those are the only two things it is lacking for good sports-sedan material.....it has just about everything else, including one of the best FWD manual transmissions on the planet.

Sorry your friend got a lemon. Most of the transmission issues, however, were cleared up after 2003. Newer TL's, in general, are well above average in reliability.

No, you didn't miss it. I didn't go into that feature in the review........but I did note the car's generaly good stereo sound quality, the riding quietness, and the absense of the usual Honda-designed vehicles' road noise. Perhaps that noise inversion feature, in addition to the other noise-absorbing features I DID mention in the review, did the trick.

LexFather

Good review Mike! I'm tempted to test it out as well. When I recently drove/rode in a base TL I found rear headroom to be fine and I'm 6 foot 5. I recently was in the backseat of a CL-S and my head was in the rear window.

I agree the paint is superb.

However for 38k nearing 40k, like the G35, I have to pass. The lower the price the more attractive they are and the higher the price, the more inclined I am to recommend a 3 or IS etc.

mmarshall

Thanks.

Did the base TL you were in have a sunroof? Sunroof housings, with a rare exeption here and there, are notorious for robbing headroom. I'm 6" 2" bare-headed, but, with my ever-present cap, am probably about the same height as you....and there's no doubt I'm heavier and wider.

Yes, one of the best mass-produced paint jobs out there short of a Lexus, which is generally considered the industry's best. (some Audis also come close).



I know 38-40K sounds like a lot, but it really isn't that much at today's auto prices. The average price of a new car, for the last several years, has been from 26-30K, although that may now be changing as people change their buying habits and new vehicle choices with the high gas prices.

There are a number of CL members here who routinely purchase brand-new high-line Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc... models for CASH, without even a need to finance them..

Threxx

I'm pretty sure that it's not possible to get a current-gen TL without a sun roof. It's a standard feature on all of them.

mmarshall

Yes, from the literature, it appears to be standard for 2008 for both base and Type-S, but it is unclear if he meant a 2008 or earlier model.....I don't know if it was standard before this year.

Threxx

2004+ it was standard. Not sure about before that but I wouldn't be surprised if it was standard on the 99-03 gen as well.

mmarshall

OK....I'll take your word for it. No reason to doubt.

Maybe?

The Lexus IS300 of that vintage, I know, did not have one standard. I managed to find a yellow 2001, brand-new (which I bought) without a sunroof and some other things I didn't want. I don't think the ES300 had a standard sunroof either, back then.

Threxx

Looks like it was standard at least 99+ according to this
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/1999/...ons/index.html

Acura has a habit of pretty much selling their cars in one two three possible configurations. Unlike Lexus which typically has a dizzying options list for its cars.

tuan92129

Now, compare that to German Automaker's list of options

LexGuy2

Excellent, unbiased review!

As a previous Acura owner, I would take the TL-S over the IS350 anytime, the IS is for midgets with all due respect. And as far as I know, nobody pays MSRP ($38K) for a TL-S, around $34K-35K is about right, I was told they are having fire sales now (around $32K) since the new 2009 TL is coming out this fall.

mmarshall

Never mind the list itself. Just take a look at what BMW, for instance, charges FOR those options.

mmarshall

Thanks.

The IS250/350 is OK up front, but, in the rear, you are correct that it is a classic sardine can for large, and even normal-sized, adults. The TL's legroom, in contrast, is limo-like....but, at 6' 2", I found the TL's rear head room inadequate, and the front headroom, with the sunroof housing, adequate only if you set the seat at its lowest height.

Discounts, in this age of an-arm-and-a-leg gas prices, are not surprising on sport sedans like the TL. The engine's somewhat weak torque curve at lower RPM means that a lot of owners will be giving it some revs once it's broken in.....which, of course, uses gas. You're obviously not going to get the mileage of a Civic Hybrid or Insight. That, of course, means that dealerships may have to drop some $$$$$ off the sticker price to provide a sales incentive and move these cars out the door. Manual-transmission models, however, may not need the discount....they are hard enough to find as it is.
(I jumped at the chance to review a manual Type-S yesterday, by CL request, because I didn't know when the next unsold one would be available).

UDel

Sunroofs were standard on all 99-03 TL and CL as well as later models.