RX350 hurts RX400h?
#1
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RX350 hurts RX400h?
When the RX400h came out, Lexus touted the performance and fuel economy over the RX330.
But now the RX350 is out, the performance advantage for the RX400h has vanished.
So now the RX400h has fuel economy (although real world numbers apparently don't seem to back up the EPA numbers at all), and cleaner emissions to tout.
But at what price?
I took the following specs from Lexus' own web site.
So there's about an $8000 base price delta on either FWD or AWD models. That buys a lot of gas. There's also about a 300lb weight difference.
Are the hybrid models then compelling beyond those big on thinking they're saving the planet by buying one?
But now the RX350 is out, the performance advantage for the RX400h has vanished.
So now the RX400h has fuel economy (although real world numbers apparently don't seem to back up the EPA numbers at all), and cleaner emissions to tout.
But at what price?
I took the following specs from Lexus' own web site.
Code:
350fwd 350awd 400hfwd 400hawd price 37400 38800 45355 46755 econ 20/25 19/24 28/33 27/31 power 270 270 268 268 0-60 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.3 1/4 15.5 15.7 ? ? weight 3870 4090 4190 4365 eco ulevii ulevii sulev sulev
Are the hybrid models then compelling beyond those big on thinking they're saving the planet by buying one?
#2
Lexus Champion
I thought about this as soon as I saw the HP figures on the 350. I'm thinking that they'll make an RX430h using the 3.5 instead of the 3.3... power maybe in the 290-300 range?
The 3.5's a more fuel efficient engine than the 3.3 was (at least from what I've witnessed) so it's probably a better idea for the hybrid market, especially if they want to sell performance as one of the hybrid's premiums over the gas other than just fuel economy.
The 3.5's a more fuel efficient engine than the 3.3 was (at least from what I've witnessed) so it's probably a better idea for the hybrid market, especially if they want to sell performance as one of the hybrid's premiums over the gas other than just fuel economy.
#4
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Then I thought about it and if the GS 450h makes 339 hp, I don't think Lexus wants that much power in the RX. Maybe it is not built for that power, so they will wait.
That is past the FX45 and close to Cayenne S and X5 4.8 power.
That would be A LOT of power in the RX and not sure the chassis is best for that.
Maybe about 275hp tops is good for that SUV.
That is past the FX45 and close to Cayenne S and X5 4.8 power.
That would be A LOT of power in the RX and not sure the chassis is best for that.
Maybe about 275hp tops is good for that SUV.
#5
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Regardless, the RX400h still gets better emissions, and better fuel economy on average. Straight line performance is likely to be fairly equal, but do not forget the RX400h also has VDIM, and due to the hybrid system placement, it actually has flatter cornering thanks a better front/rear weight distribution compared to the RX350.
But I do see the problem price-wise. Thankfully, the RX is getting redesigned soon, and a new RX will almost certainly be out for MY 2009. Several people supposedly have already seen pics of the new L-Finessed RX. With the RX getting a redesign, you can bet the hybrid version will be redesigned, likely to use the 3.5L V6, as well as Toyota's 3rd gen hybrid system.
Keep in mind, Toyota's engineering resources are currently stretched to the max. Even if they wanted to, they could not build or update the current RX hybrid any faster than they are already planning.
But I do see the problem price-wise. Thankfully, the RX is getting redesigned soon, and a new RX will almost certainly be out for MY 2009. Several people supposedly have already seen pics of the new L-Finessed RX. With the RX getting a redesign, you can bet the hybrid version will be redesigned, likely to use the 3.5L V6, as well as Toyota's 3rd gen hybrid system.
Keep in mind, Toyota's engineering resources are currently stretched to the max. Even if they wanted to, they could not build or update the current RX hybrid any faster than they are already planning.
#7
Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Regardless, the RX400h still gets better emissions, and better fuel economy on average. Straight line performance is likely to be fairly equal, but do not forget the RX400h also has VDIM, and due to the hybrid system placement, it actually has flatter cornering thanks a better front/rear weight distribution compared to the RX350.
I don't know if the better front/rear weight distribution will help the 400h to corner "flatter", but for sure the 400h is heavier and with the VDIM, that may hinder to get the max cornering capability out of the SUV. I may feel more comfortable driving the RX350 AWD to attack corners as the differetial-based AWD system is easier to control and get feed back from compare to the motor-based AWD system in the 400h.
But, heck, it's a luxury SUV. Shouldn't take it to attack corner anyway
Last edited by JZA80MHU38; 03-06-06 at 08:56 PM.
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#8
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umm that's very interesting points you brought there, paul. i never thought about that. definitely worth seeing how lexus is going to play this out, and how the public is going to buy into it.
maybe it's a good indication of what it's like down the road on the gs350, gs450h, and the gs460 (if there is one)
maybe it's a good indication of what it's like down the road on the gs350, gs450h, and the gs460 (if there is one)
#9
Lexus Test Driver
It's all gooooood, they will make a hybrid RX with the 3.5L engine, just wait a little bit, it's all about the 'always coming out with something new' deal.... I'd say 6 months or less, they will announce it, a little drop on sales <if any> won't hurt them during that period
#10
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
When the RX400h came out, Lexus touted the performance and fuel economy over the RX330.
But now the RX350 is out, the performance advantage for the RX400h has vanished.
So now the RX400h has fuel economy (although real world numbers apparently don't seem to back up the EPA numbers at all), and cleaner emissions to tout.
But at what price?
I took the following specs from Lexus' own web site.
So there's about an $8000 base price delta on either FWD or AWD models. That buys a lot of gas. There's also about a 300lb weight difference.
Are the hybrid models then compelling beyond those big on thinking they're saving the planet by buying one?
But now the RX350 is out, the performance advantage for the RX400h has vanished.
So now the RX400h has fuel economy (although real world numbers apparently don't seem to back up the EPA numbers at all), and cleaner emissions to tout.
But at what price?
I took the following specs from Lexus' own web site.
Code:
350fwd 350awd 400hfwd 400hawd price 37400 38800 45355 46755 econ 20/25 19/24 28/33 27/31 power 270 270 268 268 0-60 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.3 1/4 15.5 15.7 ? ? weight 3870 4090 4190 4365 eco ulevii ulevii sulev sulev
Are the hybrid models then compelling beyond those big on thinking they're saving the planet by buying one?
"Our Camry's mileage also will eventually be correlating a lot better with the EPA's projections. According to the agency's "Revisions to Improve Calculation of Fuel Economy Estimates," future city and highway numbers are going to be computed from a complex new formula that melds the results of the two present city and highway mileage cycles with those of three current emissions tests. Moreover, each of these will be tweaked to better reflect driving realities (taking into account wind, grade, higher speeds, and temperature). Most vehicles (including hybrids) will see five to 15 percent lower highway mileage. Hybrids will be taking it on the chin in the city numbers though, dropping 20 to 30 percent."
When posts are made of the reports from some sources, like New York Times and Consumers Reports, on the questionable mileage of the RX 400h relative to the RX330, the hybrid supporters just say the numbers are invalid. But if you look at what is written, the biggest savings may be in the lighter and/or more purpose built hybrids and not in the conversions of heavier vehicles. And when you look at the costs of ownership, the more expensive the hybrid, the more premium you pay in owning and operating relative to the non hybrid.
It is kind of interesting that the RX330 was a bit behind in performance although about the same as what is being talked about for the difference in 0 -60 for the GS430 and the GS450h. But while the RX400h is roughly $8,000 more than the RX330, the GS450h is supposed to be only $3,000 more than the GS430.
#11
Well, few things to note.
- RX350 base is not equipped same as RX400h base.
Unless someone thinks they can get cloth RX350? :-).
So with premium plus package with options (heaters, auto wipers) pricing is:
- RX350 FWD - $42,373.00
- RX400h FWD - $46,020.00
So hybrid premium is "only" $3,700 USD.
Other thing in RX400h is smoother transmission, faster than V8 passing acceleration, VDIM, better mpg, better AC system, a lot quieter drive overall. And of course, novelty of it all.
RX400h in drive should still be significantly faster than RX350, due to torque coming from electric engines. So far it has been proved faster in gear that its V8 competitors, so I dont see why it wont be faster than V6.
- RX350 base is not equipped same as RX400h base.
Unless someone thinks they can get cloth RX350? :-).
So with premium plus package with options (heaters, auto wipers) pricing is:
- RX350 FWD - $42,373.00
- RX400h FWD - $46,020.00
So hybrid premium is "only" $3,700 USD.
Other thing in RX400h is smoother transmission, faster than V8 passing acceleration, VDIM, better mpg, better AC system, a lot quieter drive overall. And of course, novelty of it all.
RX400h in drive should still be significantly faster than RX350, due to torque coming from electric engines. So far it has been proved faster in gear that its V8 competitors, so I dont see why it wont be faster than V6.
#13
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Originally Posted by spwolf
Well, few things to note.
- RX350 base is not equipped same as RX400h base.
Unless someone thinks they can get cloth RX350? :-).
So with premium plus package with options (heaters, auto wipers) pricing is:
- RX350 FWD - $42,373.00
- RX400h FWD - $46,020.00
So hybrid premium is "only" $3,700 USD.
Other thing in RX400h is smoother transmission, faster than V8 passing acceleration, VDIM, better mpg, better AC system, a lot quieter drive overall. And of course, novelty of it all.
RX400h in drive should still be significantly faster than RX350, due to torque coming from electric engines. So far it has been proved faster in gear that its V8 competitors, so I dont see why it wont be faster than V6.
- RX350 base is not equipped same as RX400h base.
Unless someone thinks they can get cloth RX350? :-).
So with premium plus package with options (heaters, auto wipers) pricing is:
- RX350 FWD - $42,373.00
- RX400h FWD - $46,020.00
So hybrid premium is "only" $3,700 USD.
Other thing in RX400h is smoother transmission, faster than V8 passing acceleration, VDIM, better mpg, better AC system, a lot quieter drive overall. And of course, novelty of it all.
RX400h in drive should still be significantly faster than RX350, due to torque coming from electric engines. So far it has been proved faster in gear that its V8 competitors, so I dont see why it wont be faster than V6.
Not sure which V8 competitors it was compared to, perhaps not a Cayenne.
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