Threxx, I agree. IMO, GM didnt start making crappy cars until maybe 15 or 20 years ago. For the most part American trucks are still the most reliable and the sedans are making a come back as well.
My post about GM was a response to another post about VW and its relaibility and being #1. I think if VW can make some improvement on reliability, they can climb to #1. I am not talking about being top dog in reliability, just average will do I think.

 

15-20 years ago would only be early to mid 90's and GM cars were awful long before then. The late 70's and especially through out the 80's were some of the worst years for GM and American cars. GM and generally American cars have been really bad for like 35-40 years with the past 3 or 4 years seeing a huge improvement especially with interiors.

 

Exactly! The issues mostly with the domestics is that they were forced to improve due to declining market share. Their arrogance prevented them from reacting sooner and now fast forward 30 years look at the position they find themselves in.

 

Many if not most Japanese cars were worse in terms of durability in the 70s and even early 80s than their domestic counterparts.

From about the mid 80s to 1990 the tables started to turn and by 1990 Japanese cars as a whole had the upper hand, though not in all cases and definitely not the case with trucks.

Once upon a time "Made in Japan" had a similar stigma as "Made in China" does today.

Again, all it takes is looking around at how many cars of a given era are still on the road today to see which ones have stood the test of time. Mint condition classics excluded of course because who knows how much money was poored into keeping those running.

 

I agree completely that the domestic companies acted arrogantly about their quality issues and that they were forced to improve by japanese competition.

I just think that the time table was more like 20 years, not 35, and there were too many exceptions even during that 20 year time table to make a blanket statement.

 

I tend to agree with Threxx, GM and Ford were actually pretty reliable in the 70s and 80s, especially the pickup truck, when compare to the Japanese and the Germans. Keep in mind, we are not taking about quality here, just reliability. Chrysler was a totally different story

 

I tend to think because the reliability of Japanese cars didn't pick up until the late 80s or early 90's, maybe the reliablility gap wasn't as much between American cars and Japanese cars. I can still name a bunch of horrible American cars made in the 80s/90s... Ford Tempo/Escort, Dodge Aries, Chevy Cavalier/Celebrity...

 

Yes, in the late 80s and early 90s, the Japanese raise the relaibility standards and the Americans and the Germans would not keep up. In recent years, the reliability gap is getting smaller industry wise.

 

Toyota and Nissan (Datsun) reliability (except for the then-Japanese bugaboo of body rust) was pretty much established in the 1970's. By the 1980's, Honda reliability was just as good, if not better. Honda, unlike the other Japanese companies, did not build their first 4-wheel vehicle until the little 600 model of '71-72, with the first Civic to follow in '73.

The decline in the quality of American-designed vehicles, BTW, did not wait until the 1980's. It actually started, with Chrysler, in the the late 60's, and the 1971 Ford Pinto and Chevy Vega, in a number of ways, were worse than even some of the classic 1980's junk. But, for Detroit as a whole, the worst period was from the late 70's to the late 80's. By the 90's, things had slowly started to improve.

 

You are right about some Japanese auto brands not being so great in the 70's and early 80's like Datsun/Nissan and Mazda and a few others but that was not the case with Hondas and Toyotas. Still I would not say in most cases even Datsuns and Mazdas were worse then most domestics during that time.

Honda and Toyota were pretty reliable and well built in the late 70's and very reliable in the early 80's. Datsuns/Nissans were not so very reliable in those times but generally more so then American cars, Nissans never were really noted for their great reliability and quality, and many Mazda models like the 929 in the 80's were known for bad quality and reliability. Hondas and Toyotas though were known for reliability and quality in the early 80's, Honda had a limited lineup in the early 80's and was not as popular though.

I remember when we were moving oversees in the early 80's it was recommended to my dad to buy a Honda or Toyota and not bring an American car because servicing could be expensive on the military bases in Panama and Hondas and Toyotas were very reliable and easy on maintenance at the time. We had a 81 or 82 Olds Cutlass Supreme 2 door which was a great car and my dad had a Datsun 240Z which was pretty much a lemon but it had been in high water previously. My dad still got a nice amount of money for the 240Z but my parents got very little for the Olds because resale on American cars dropped pretty bad even in the early 80's due to reliability issues. My dad test drove a slightly used little 2nd Gen copper Honda civic hatchback and was completely blown away at the quality, how solid it was, and how well it shifted and drove. He bought it the next day and never had a single issue with it, he bought a 83 Accord hatchback because he was so impressed with Hondas and it never gave them any problems whatsoever until we got rid of it in 91 or 92. He also bought a 87 Accord sedan which never gave them any reliability issues until they got rid of it in 98 or 99 with almost 200K miles on it. Our early to mid 80's Honda's and friends Toyota's never really had many issues if any while friends and families American cars from the early 80's and on seemed to always have issues.

 

how infiniti made it to #4 i will never know...

 

I just go an e mail from Lexus " See the new standard " I wonder if it is worse than the old standard or are they trying to uphold the old standard and calling it new. If we can afford a Lexus we can afford 80% of the cars out there. I started to lean to Lexus because of reliability and their supposedly design for 10 years life. Owning an 06 IS350 has not been reasuring specially with the 6 or 8 TSB I had to get done to the car.
I like flash, power and reliability which I thought I was getting with my Lexus and I have refused to look at certain marquees because of perceived reliability issues even if the flash is there or power but unfortunately I am not sure what I can say about Lexus any more.

 

Lexus still makes the most reliable sport sedans in my opinion. Lexus, like any other car company will have more problems as their cars get more complex. An engine that is high performance and design for max output will be even more prone to problems.

 

I just got the same email, it was an ad about the 2010 ES350. Lexus describe the ES as " Premium is the new standard ". I wonder what was the standard before the 2010 ES, non premium?

 

Agreed. Every manufacturer has problems hence why in Consumer Reports has rated no car with a 100% reliability ranking (although I believe the LS has a 99% ranking). The main difference between Lexus and the other lux brands is the amount and severity of the problems is lower. That doesn't mean you won't have problems, but it mean you're problems will be less frequent and less sever.