A review of Tom's F&R STB, F&R LCB, and 6-piece suspension kit, plus questions!
07-02-03, 12:55 PM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
A review of Tom's F&R STB, F&R LCB, and 6-piece suspension kit, plus questions!
Well the other day I got all 5 components for my 99 GS400 from Carson Toyota... Tom's front and rear strut tower braces, Tom's front and rear lower chassis braces, and the 6-piece suspension link kit.
I decided to do a piece-by-piece install and make progress notes as I go.
It's important to mention that before this my car was 100% stock with the exception of the tires which have been replaced since new.
First I installed the front strut tower brace. Let me say that this looks like it's by far the easiest part to install. It took me no more than 10 minutes from the time I got it out of the package to the time it was installed and drivable.
Driving impressions- I could definitely tell an improvement. Not night & day, but still definitely there. The steering seems to be a little more direct, and although it didn't exactly make my car an instant BMW, it did make the car seem a little less hesitant to taking turns quickly. The only area I was disappointed in was that it doesn't seem to have made the chassis of the car feel any stiffer or rigid when going over bumps.
Next I installed the front lower chassis brace. This was quite a bit more difficult, but still something that nearly anyone with a decent set of deep-socket rachets, some muscles, and a basic understanding of geometry could complete in about 45 minutes. If I had access to a lift rather than just a hydraulic jack and if the instructions had been in english instead of japanese, I suspect install time would have been just a bit over 15 minutes. The biggest pain in the butt was the extra pieces that connect some part of the suspension to the rest of the brace, as some of those bolts require quite a bit of muscle and/or a socket wrench with plenty of reach and plenty of leverage to break loose.
Driving impressions- OK, wow, this mod definitely made a difference, mostly good with a little bad. First of all what struck me as soon as I started the car up is that I could feel the motor quite a bit more through the floorboard than I could before. Apparently whether intentionally or not, when lexus designed the stock brace and mounting points, it absorbed a lot more of the vibration transfered from the motor. Not so with the new brace... I don't know if it's because it's stiffer, more unitized, or because of the couple of extra mounting points that the factory one didn't touch, but it's definitely there. Really only at idle, though. It's the same thing with braking, I can 'feel' the brakes a bit more through the cabin of the car than I could before. Doesn't necessarily feel unrefined, but just like you're a bit more directly connected to the mechanical components of the car. Has anyone else experienced this?
Now the good- The car handles significantly better! Not only this, but when driving around town going over irregularities in the road, the car feels noticably 'tighter', almost kind of like it has 5k miles on it instead of 40k. At the same time I think you also feel the irregularities in the road a tad bit more because the chassis' flex doesn't absorb as much of the impact. But that's really a good thing IMO and in the opinion of most car engineers I've talked to.
The other 3 mods have yet to be installed, but I will report back by editing this post as soon as they are installed (which should by Saturday evening, if not earlier).
I decided to do a piece-by-piece install and make progress notes as I go.
It's important to mention that before this my car was 100% stock with the exception of the tires which have been replaced since new.
First I installed the front strut tower brace. Let me say that this looks like it's by far the easiest part to install. It took me no more than 10 minutes from the time I got it out of the package to the time it was installed and drivable.
Driving impressions- I could definitely tell an improvement. Not night & day, but still definitely there. The steering seems to be a little more direct, and although it didn't exactly make my car an instant BMW, it did make the car seem a little less hesitant to taking turns quickly. The only area I was disappointed in was that it doesn't seem to have made the chassis of the car feel any stiffer or rigid when going over bumps.
Next I installed the front lower chassis brace. This was quite a bit more difficult, but still something that nearly anyone with a decent set of deep-socket rachets, some muscles, and a basic understanding of geometry could complete in about 45 minutes. If I had access to a lift rather than just a hydraulic jack and if the instructions had been in english instead of japanese, I suspect install time would have been just a bit over 15 minutes. The biggest pain in the butt was the extra pieces that connect some part of the suspension to the rest of the brace, as some of those bolts require quite a bit of muscle and/or a socket wrench with plenty of reach and plenty of leverage to break loose.
Driving impressions- OK, wow, this mod definitely made a difference, mostly good with a little bad. First of all what struck me as soon as I started the car up is that I could feel the motor quite a bit more through the floorboard than I could before. Apparently whether intentionally or not, when lexus designed the stock brace and mounting points, it absorbed a lot more of the vibration transfered from the motor. Not so with the new brace... I don't know if it's because it's stiffer, more unitized, or because of the couple of extra mounting points that the factory one didn't touch, but it's definitely there. Really only at idle, though. It's the same thing with braking, I can 'feel' the brakes a bit more through the cabin of the car than I could before. Doesn't necessarily feel unrefined, but just like you're a bit more directly connected to the mechanical components of the car. Has anyone else experienced this?
Now the good- The car handles significantly better! Not only this, but when driving around town going over irregularities in the road, the car feels noticably 'tighter', almost kind of like it has 5k miles on it instead of 40k. At the same time I think you also feel the irregularities in the road a tad bit more because the chassis' flex doesn't absorb as much of the impact. But that's really a good thing IMO and in the opinion of most car engineers I've talked to.
The other 3 mods have yet to be installed, but I will report back by editing this post as soon as they are installed (which should by Saturday evening, if not earlier).
!!!
07-02-03, 01:36 PM
#3
Lexus Champion
Lower Chassis Brace Vibrations
I made several posts a while back on my Tom's install. The lower chassis brace was in physical contact . with a bolt mounted on the transmission and rubbed a divot in the brace. [The middle part of the "A" in the brace.] Felt and sounded like driving a lawn mower and was worst at idle. A few thin spacers cleared up the problem. I took a look at another Tom's lower brace that was recently removed from another GS and it had the same divot.
Many others noted that they did not have this problem.
Many others noted that they did not have this problem.
07-02-03, 10:58 PM
#4
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
OK I went and looked and sure enough, the brace was solidly touching the transmission, so I just went out there and completely disassemled the FLCB, placed a couple of 11mm washers on the back of every mounting point on the back of the brace except for one place on each side where I had to use 14 mm washers.
I checked again and there's just enough room to barely see between the brace and the tranny now. I took it for a test drive and the vibration and harshness are 100% eliminated as far as I can tell, but the performance gain is still there!
On a side note, I've broken two 1/2 inch to 3/8th inch socket wrench adapter bits today alone... maybe I need to start buying more expensive tools??
I checked again and there's just enough room to barely see between the brace and the tranny now. I took it for a test drive and the vibration and harshness are 100% eliminated as far as I can tell, but the performance gain is still there!
On a side note, I've broken two 1/2 inch to 3/8th inch socket wrench adapter bits today alone... maybe I need to start buying more expensive tools??
07-03-03, 11:55 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
Originally posted by Threxx
On a side note, I've broken two 1/2 inch to 3/8th inch socket wrench adapter bits today alone... maybe I need to start buying more expensive tools??
On a side note, I've broken two 1/2 inch to 3/8th inch socket wrench adapter bits today alone... maybe I need to start buying more expensive tools??
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07-05-03, 11:39 PM
#8
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Well it seems like not many people are interested to here, so if anyone has any further specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
Anyhow... I installed the rear strut tower brace today. Harder than the FSTB, but still much easier than the front LCB. The hardest part was just forcing myself to cut a hole in my trunk liner!
Anyhow.. to be honest I'm not sure I can tell a difference between this and the previous setup. I mean, I can tell a big difference, but I think that may be more attributed to the 30-40 pounds of dynomat and closed cell accoustic dampening foam I installed all over the car today as well.
As far as the handling and chassis rigidity go, I think this is so far the least noticable piece yet.
I still have the rear lower chassis brace and 6-piece kit to go. I'll probably get the rear LCB on tommorow if I get time.
Anyhow... I installed the rear strut tower brace today. Harder than the FSTB, but still much easier than the front LCB. The hardest part was just forcing myself to cut a hole in my trunk liner!
Anyhow.. to be honest I'm not sure I can tell a difference between this and the previous setup. I mean, I can tell a big difference, but I think that may be more attributed to the 30-40 pounds of dynomat and closed cell accoustic dampening foam I installed all over the car today as well.
As far as the handling and chassis rigidity go, I think this is so far the least noticable piece yet.
I still have the rear lower chassis brace and 6-piece kit to go. I'll probably get the rear LCB on tommorow if I get time.
07-08-03, 07:04 PM
#9
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Threxx,
Appreciate the piece by piece write-up... should make it easier for folks to decide how to upgrade. Will we be seeing you at Deals Gap in August? Sounds like your suspension is ready for the trip
Appreciate the piece by piece write-up... should make it easier for folks to decide how to upgrade. Will we be seeing you at Deals Gap in August? Sounds like your suspension is ready for the trip
07-08-03, 08:56 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Threxx, keep it up bud. I really think the rear STB comes into it's own when you add that beefy Tom's LCB and 'boxes' the back end. I think you'll like it then.
07-08-03, 09:56 PM
#12
Originally posted by rominl
trust me man, if i have the money to buy, i will be asking you a lot of questions
trust me man, if i have the money to buy, i will be asking you a lot of questions
you drove in my car for 700 miles and at speeds of 110mph in the turns. What more questions could you have ??
Threxx,
several of us NorCal locals have done the TOM's and have had various impressions that differed depending on the order in which the parts were installed and what other mods were already in place. We're eagerly awaiting your completion of all the parts to get "your" impressions.
I just put in all the TOM's LCB's & 6 link as the last remaining suspension mod. The difference for me is that I did all theTOM's braces at once, so my evaluation will be for the complete system rather than progressive. We used the trip to the Carson meet as a test evaluation. I will give my review some time in the future.
Last edited by RMMGS4; 07-08-03 at 10:08 PM.
07-08-03, 10:04 PM
#13
Originally posted by Threxx
Well it seems like not many people are interested to here, so if anyone has any further specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
Well it seems like not many people are interested to here, so if anyone has any further specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them.
so I am just reading to see your reactions to the changes. Everyone's driving experiences and tolerances are different so another point of data is always welcomed.Also, I am glad to see you are enjoying the upgrade.
07-08-03, 10:58 PM
#14
Originally posted by RMMGS4
Rominl,
you drove in my car for 700 miles and at speeds of 110mph in the turns. What more questions could you have ??
Threxx,
several of us NorCal locals have done the TOM's and have had various impressions that differed depending on the order in which the parts were installed and what other mods were already in place. We're eagerly awaiting your completion of all the parts to get "your" impressions.
I just put in all the TOM's LCB's & 6 link as the last remaining suspension mod. The difference for me is that I did all theTOM's braces at once, so my evaluation will be for the complete system rather than progressive. We used the trip to the Carson meet as a test evaluation. I will give my review some time in the future.
Rominl,
you drove in my car for 700 miles and at speeds of 110mph in the turns. What more questions could you have ??
Threxx,
several of us NorCal locals have done the TOM's and have had various impressions that differed depending on the order in which the parts were installed and what other mods were already in place. We're eagerly awaiting your completion of all the parts to get "your" impressions.
I just put in all the TOM's LCB's & 6 link as the last remaining suspension mod. The difference for me is that I did all theTOM's braces at once, so my evaluation will be for the complete system rather than progressive. We used the trip to the Carson meet as a test evaluation. I will give my review some time in the future.
ya know i am not made of money 
08-25-03, 08:33 AM
#15
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
OK as a review, I had the FLCB, FSTB, and RSTB installed prior to this.
A few days ago the correct RLCB finally came in from Carson Toyota (they apparently had to order one from Tom's and wait for it to come in).
So yesterday I set out to install the 6-piece suspension brace kit and the RLCB.
The first two pieces on the 6-piece kit were a breeze. They replaced some factory stamped braces and seem to be much more sturdy. The second two pieces were quite a bit more chalenging. I had the back wheels on ramps, and we had to use a jack to lift up one side of the car to where there was just the right amount of pressure lifted off the wheel. Too much and it wouldn't fit, too little and it wouldn't fit. This process had to be repeated for both sides and I think it would have been easier if I had a lift. Finally I got it in and the rest was a breeze. Finally the last two pieces of the 6-piece kit... it seems as though I either need an xtremely shallow socket wrench and socket, or I need to disconnect and lower the back end of the exhaust system. This doesn't look like it will be too hard... just lift up and pull the mufflers off from the hangers... but at this point my friend had to be somewhere and I decided I needed two people to do it.
So now I went to the RLCB, which I figured would be much easier than the 6-piece kit and just as easy if not easier than the FLCB. Boy was I wrong. I disconnected all four bolts for the RLCB and nearly had a heart attack, as some sort of tank (looks like it might be the fuel tank) that was held in by two rubber straps, shifted down several inches. It ended up stopping and felt pretty secure (like I wasn't going to be crushed)... but still, I was nervous. To make matters worse, the tank was heavy enough that I couldn't hold it up while also holding up the rubber strap and RLCB and threading the bolts properly So I had to get my floor jack underneath each corner of the tank and jack it all the way up and then thread the bolt without crossthreading it. The first bolt took me nearly an hour to finally get all lined up properly... plenty of cursing. It would have been MUCH easier if there was a second person to help me and/or I had a commercial lift to use. The second bolt was a little easier but required the jack again, and again the 3rd and 4th bolts got successively easier, yet still required the jack... by the 4th bolt it only took me a few minutes to get it lined up properly. The two bolts closer to the front of the car are hard because they don't want to line up properly with everything. The two bolts closer to the back of the car are hard because the threads don't want to grab onto anything until they are practically all the way in there... so you have to use all your strength to get it to thread.
ANYHOW....
In the end I have everything on except for the last two links of the 6-piece kit, which I will probably have to wait another week before I had time to put them on. But I must say this has made the most difference out of anything I've done so far. The rear end seems noticable more predictable in turns, and the tires seem to be more eager to dig in. Ride quality has not suffered at all, it is actually noticably better now... and the car feels much much more BMW-like in how it rides over irregularities in the road. Especially uniform steep drop-offs and rail road tracks.
A few days ago the correct RLCB finally came in from Carson Toyota (they apparently had to order one from Tom's and wait for it to come in).
So yesterday I set out to install the 6-piece suspension brace kit and the RLCB.
The first two pieces on the 6-piece kit were a breeze. They replaced some factory stamped braces and seem to be much more sturdy. The second two pieces were quite a bit more chalenging. I had the back wheels on ramps, and we had to use a jack to lift up one side of the car to where there was just the right amount of pressure lifted off the wheel. Too much and it wouldn't fit, too little and it wouldn't fit. This process had to be repeated for both sides and I think it would have been easier if I had a lift. Finally I got it in and the rest was a breeze. Finally the last two pieces of the 6-piece kit... it seems as though I either need an xtremely shallow socket wrench and socket, or I need to disconnect and lower the back end of the exhaust system. This doesn't look like it will be too hard... just lift up and pull the mufflers off from the hangers... but at this point my friend had to be somewhere and I decided I needed two people to do it.
So now I went to the RLCB, which I figured would be much easier than the 6-piece kit and just as easy if not easier than the FLCB. Boy was I wrong. I disconnected all four bolts for the RLCB and nearly had a heart attack, as some sort of tank (looks like it might be the fuel tank) that was held in by two rubber straps, shifted down several inches. It ended up stopping and felt pretty secure (like I wasn't going to be crushed)... but still, I was nervous. To make matters worse, the tank was heavy enough that I couldn't hold it up while also holding up the rubber strap and RLCB and threading the bolts properly So I had to get my floor jack underneath each corner of the tank and jack it all the way up and then thread the bolt without crossthreading it. The first bolt took me nearly an hour to finally get all lined up properly... plenty of cursing. It would have been MUCH easier if there was a second person to help me and/or I had a commercial lift to use. The second bolt was a little easier but required the jack again, and again the 3rd and 4th bolts got successively easier, yet still required the jack... by the 4th bolt it only took me a few minutes to get it lined up properly. The two bolts closer to the front of the car are hard because they don't want to line up properly with everything. The two bolts closer to the back of the car are hard because the threads don't want to grab onto anything until they are practically all the way in there... so you have to use all your strength to get it to thread.
ANYHOW....
In the end I have everything on except for the last two links of the 6-piece kit, which I will probably have to wait another week before I had time to put them on. But I must say this has made the most difference out of anything I've done so far. The rear end seems noticable more predictable in turns, and the tires seem to be more eager to dig in. Ride quality has not suffered at all, it is actually noticably better now... and the car feels much much more BMW-like in how it rides over irregularities in the road. Especially uniform steep drop-offs and rail road tracks.