Brake noise in cabin -new noise? I did search!
09-25-10, 10:46 PM
#31
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My lights don't come on either, unless the relay/fuse is removed, but I get the same sound as you posted in the video, I'll push the brakes, the noise comes up and it feels like the ABS all of a sudden kicks in and stops the car
10-08-10, 02:10 AM
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Update:
The sound was in the beginning only at low speeds and only when coming to a (near) complete stop. Last weeks this changed: more often and the minimum speed got higher (max. 10 mph) and always when touching the brake below 10 mph.
I took it through a mud field for the ABS to kick in: ABS worked normal and the sound was definitely different than the problem sound (ABS feel in the brake pedal was normal). The problem sound was there also everytime ABS kicked in. I left the car dirty.
Few days later I had a short race to about 100 mph, then the 3 lights started to burn (ABS, VSC and VSC off). The sound stopped (this is no good I know)!
My idea now is the ABS system and I want to check the following:
1) sensors behind each wheel. Can you plz tell me where they're located, or things I have to look for (common faults or so)? In one post somebody had similar problems and 1 sensor was loose, thightening cured the sound (see here from post #11).
2) (see this post that cleared problems). Is it smart for me to engage this Zero Point Calibration of the ABS?? Or with a broken ABS-motor (or whatever is happening in my car) I end up with an undrivable car?
3) where's the ABS pump actually located? Is it together with the master cilinder assy?? Will I need to change this very expensive part, or could it be something else?
I really hope it is a bad (connected) sensor ...
The sound was in the beginning only at low speeds and only when coming to a (near) complete stop. Last weeks this changed: more often and the minimum speed got higher (max. 10 mph) and always when touching the brake below 10 mph.
I took it through a mud field for the ABS to kick in: ABS worked normal and the sound was definitely different than the problem sound (ABS feel in the brake pedal was normal). The problem sound was there also everytime ABS kicked in. I left the car dirty.
Few days later I had a short race to about 100 mph, then the 3 lights started to burn (ABS, VSC and VSC off). The sound stopped (this is no good I know)!
My idea now is the ABS system and I want to check the following:
1) sensors behind each wheel. Can you plz tell me where they're located, or things I have to look for (common faults or so)? In one post somebody had similar problems and 1 sensor was loose, thightening cured the sound (see here from post #11).
2) (see this post that cleared problems). Is it smart for me to engage this Zero Point Calibration of the ABS?? Or with a broken ABS-motor (or whatever is happening in my car) I end up with an undrivable car?
3) where's the ABS pump actually located? Is it together with the master cilinder assy?? Will I need to change this very expensive part, or could it be something else?
I really hope it is a bad (connected) sensor ...
10-13-10, 12:57 PM
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Tonight I looked at ABS sensors at the right side: front was very clean, but with a lot of white grease on the tip of the sensor. I cleaned this off.
The rear was extremely dirty and rusty. I also cleaned this, but I have a feeling this isn't how it should be! It looks like this ABS area in the wheel hub is protected from dirt by rubber rings (don't know the english name). In the rear I think this is damaged.
Can this theory be correct?
Photo rear ABS sensor:
Tomorrow I will drive and update what's happening. If I go now, I will be looking for 20 minutes for another parking space (yes it's crowded here!), pay 5 euro for 1 hour of parking and still it's packed (I have a permit-after 4 years on a waiting list)!
The rear was extremely dirty and rusty. I also cleaned this, but I have a feeling this isn't how it should be! It looks like this ABS area in the wheel hub is protected from dirt by rubber rings (don't know the english name). In the rear I think this is damaged.
Can this theory be correct?
Photo rear ABS sensor:
Tomorrow I will drive and update what's happening. If I go now, I will be looking for 20 minutes for another parking space (yes it's crowded here!), pay 5 euro for 1 hour of parking and still it's packed (I have a permit-after 4 years on a waiting list)!
Last edited by MartijnAms; 10-13-10 at 01:04 PM.
10-17-10, 07:27 AM
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Today I took the left rear wheel off and looked into the ABS sensor hole. I think I found the problem of all described above. I try to give a good describtion:
The alloy ring that signals the ABS sensor isn't centered in the middle: it is shaving against the outside. The ridges/ nocks are almost completely gone.
This definitely isn't good, can it be the wheel bearing?
Question: what do I have to replace?
Is it smart to buy it new or better go to a wreckers? I know a few with that have this car.
I'm very close to resolving, but I need a little help!
I couldn't open the workshop manual (somebody knows the pdf version??)
Edit: I found the standalone versions of repair manuals on another Lexusforum post #22 (maybe here too, sorry!) All are downloadable from Rapidshare.
Edit2: I think the alloy ring is called the 'ABS speed sensor rotor' and is fixed on the driveshaft.
So I just replace the complete driveshaft (wreckers)? This alloy ring you can't buy I assume.
The alloy ring that signals the ABS sensor isn't centered in the middle: it is shaving against the outside. The ridges/ nocks are almost completely gone.
This definitely isn't good, can it be the wheel bearing?
Question: what do I have to replace?
Is it smart to buy it new or better go to a wreckers? I know a few with that have this car.
I'm very close to resolving, but I need a little help!
I couldn't open the workshop manual (somebody knows the pdf version??)
Edit: I found the standalone versions of repair manuals on another Lexusforum post #22 (maybe here too, sorry!) All are downloadable from Rapidshare.
Edit2: I think the alloy ring is called the 'ABS speed sensor rotor' and is fixed on the driveshaft.
So I just replace the complete driveshaft (wreckers)? This alloy ring you can't buy I assume.
Last edited by MartijnAms; 10-17-10 at 02:30 PM. Reason: update
10-24-10, 12:33 AM
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My theory: Yesterday at the wreckers I looked at the wheel hub they had. It also started to shave the reluctor ring (tone ring/ ABS rotor- I like the sound of 'tone ring' most!).
Then I noticed the dust deflector that is pushed in the hub and sits around this reluctor ring. It was coming off the hub around the ABS sensor area, just about half a millimeter -0.02 inch and had thouched this relucor ring slightly.
It looks like rust and dirt got stuck between this dust deflector. In my case this eventually damaged the tone ring (after the mud field).
I didn't buy the hub with bearing, because it's so unlikely mine is bust (I have no sounds, wobble, play or whatever) and drove 8.000 mls with half broken reluctor ring (all theory!).
Which deflector is it: 42451-30010 or 42453-50010 (website)?
What do you guys think?
I bought another axle (driveshaft) and will buy a new dust deflector at dealer. Still have to find time to replace (next week I hope).
Will update if it is this, or bearing or even total hub failure...
PS
Do you want to know about prices:
I could get driveshaft 2002, 16.000 mls for 100 euro; though bought at other wreckers 1998, unknown mls for 150 euros. I know that's (very!) steep, but they still have the hub I might need. Hub was 125,-. Normal prices would be 100 euro for each item (I had more offers).
New bearing at (in this case stealers): 165 euro! I could get it from the states for 75 USD!
Then I noticed the dust deflector that is pushed in the hub and sits around this reluctor ring. It was coming off the hub around the ABS sensor area, just about half a millimeter -0.02 inch and had thouched this relucor ring slightly.
It looks like rust and dirt got stuck between this dust deflector. In my case this eventually damaged the tone ring (after the mud field).
I didn't buy the hub with bearing, because it's so unlikely mine is bust (I have no sounds, wobble, play or whatever) and drove 8.000 mls with half broken reluctor ring (all theory!).
Which deflector is it: 42451-30010 or 42453-50010 (website)?
What do you guys think?
I bought another axle (driveshaft) and will buy a new dust deflector at dealer. Still have to find time to replace (next week I hope).
Will update if it is this, or bearing or even total hub failure...
PS
Do you want to know about prices:
I could get driveshaft 2002, 16.000 mls for 100 euro; though bought at other wreckers 1998, unknown mls for 150 euros. I know that's (very!) steep, but they still have the hub I might need. Hub was 125,-. Normal prices would be 100 euro for each item (I had more offers).
New bearing at (in this case stealers): 165 euro! I could get it from the states for 75 USD!
Last edited by MartijnAms; 10-24-10 at 12:40 AM. Reason: addition
10-24-10, 04:37 AM
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That was the quoted price at Toyota dealer, prices here are a lot higher!
Will check at my Lexus dealer when I buy dust deflector.
Anybody know part no, see above?
Will check at my Lexus dealer when I buy dust deflector.
Anybody know part no, see above?
11-20-10, 12:19 AM
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Finally! I found time (also had to wait for parts) and fixed. Cause: rust from the hub pushed the dust deflector on to the ABS-tonering which finally shaved off.
I have to admit not reading you're posts good enough, as many suggested the ABS system!
Though also many suggested 'it must be the [very expensive] brake master cilinder- which tends to break’!
I like to conclude that strange sounds when braking below 15 mph indicate ABS problems, later I read many ABS-ring problems and similar symptoms at the RX-section.
First easy diagnosis is just take off each wheel and ABS sensor and look in the ABS-gap!
Repair:
Take axle out by unscrewing all connected suspension parts to the hub, except the upper suspension arm. Only then you can move the hub enough to take axle out. Remember to matchmark adjusting cam and lower suspension arm. See workshop manual which is available by rapidshare and pics from lexusparts now.
Strangely my axle was really stuck even when removing the 6 hexagon bolts.
I sanded all the rust away (Dremel minitool) and painted inside with very strong rust paint (Corroless-German stuff) before pushing the new dust deflector in (paint has te be still wet!). Be very carefull as I bended the first one! Put a big block of wood on it and hit that carefull with a hammer. When it is in a little bit: I found that you could hit it totally in with a piece of metal (1 cm wide and 3 mm thick- metric system!) on the inside of the dust deflector. Make sure it's seated fully in the hub. And tap carefull.
Also painted the inside of ABS-sensor-hole.
I have a feeling this rusting can happen to more cars, as I saw another hub at wreckers that started to shave + my right side was also shaving (you'll see small pieces of metal on the ABS sensor when you take it out). Though bear in mind our weather is about the worse for cars.
Bought dust deflector 42451-30010 (13 euro, normal pricing!) and another axle (100 euro, year 2003 only 20.000 mls).
Pic1: I tried this before without the sanding, that’s why it’s painted. Makes sanding really tough: paint clothes up the sanding roll. The bulb is rust!
In the background you see the rest of my spacious ‘garage’.
Pic2: After sanding. Affected parts are still darker than the rest: maybe rust comes from inside.
Pic3: Done (later filled gaps with paint).
I have to admit not reading you're posts good enough, as many suggested the ABS system!
Though also many suggested 'it must be the [very expensive] brake master cilinder- which tends to break’!
I like to conclude that strange sounds when braking below 15 mph indicate ABS problems, later I read many ABS-ring problems and similar symptoms at the RX-section.
First easy diagnosis is just take off each wheel and ABS sensor and look in the ABS-gap!
Repair:
Take axle out by unscrewing all connected suspension parts to the hub, except the upper suspension arm. Only then you can move the hub enough to take axle out. Remember to matchmark adjusting cam and lower suspension arm. See workshop manual which is available by rapidshare and pics from lexusparts now.
Strangely my axle was really stuck even when removing the 6 hexagon bolts.
I sanded all the rust away (Dremel minitool) and painted inside with very strong rust paint (Corroless-German stuff) before pushing the new dust deflector in (paint has te be still wet!). Be very carefull as I bended the first one! Put a big block of wood on it and hit that carefull with a hammer. When it is in a little bit: I found that you could hit it totally in with a piece of metal (1 cm wide and 3 mm thick- metric system!) on the inside of the dust deflector. Make sure it's seated fully in the hub. And tap carefull.
Also painted the inside of ABS-sensor-hole.
I have a feeling this rusting can happen to more cars, as I saw another hub at wreckers that started to shave + my right side was also shaving (you'll see small pieces of metal on the ABS sensor when you take it out). Though bear in mind our weather is about the worse for cars.
Bought dust deflector 42451-30010 (13 euro, normal pricing!) and another axle (100 euro, year 2003 only 20.000 mls).
Pic1: I tried this before without the sanding, that’s why it’s painted. Makes sanding really tough: paint clothes up the sanding roll. The bulb is rust!
In the background you see the rest of my spacious ‘garage’.
Pic2: After sanding. Affected parts are still darker than the rest: maybe rust comes from inside.
Pic3: Done (later filled gaps with paint).
04-16-19, 03:53 PM
#41
I am currently having this exact problem. Replaced both rear axles with A1 Cardone remanufactured so that I can get new ABS reluctor rings (was easier than replacing them directly). Installed right axle and noticed that it seized up when I tried to seat it by tightening the large nut. Removed it again and inspected.
Problem was that as the hub rusted over the years, it gradually pushed the dust deflector ring away from the hub surface, thereby shrinking the circumference of the hole that the ABS ring sits in. This caused the teeth to completely wear off of the ring. Symptom is that ABS shuts down when it can't read a wheel properly anymore.
I will do what was mentioned above. Order new dust deflector rings. Remove old ones, grind off the rust, then sand. Spray with rust protectant. Install new deflectors, making sure the ABS ring is free to move.
Great pics posted here above, thanks. Old cars SUCK. Even my beloved GS400.
Problem was that as the hub rusted over the years, it gradually pushed the dust deflector ring away from the hub surface, thereby shrinking the circumference of the hole that the ABS ring sits in. This caused the teeth to completely wear off of the ring. Symptom is that ABS shuts down when it can't read a wheel properly anymore.
I will do what was mentioned above. Order new dust deflector rings. Remove old ones, grind off the rust, then sand. Spray with rust protectant. Install new deflectors, making sure the ABS ring is free to move.
Great pics posted here above, thanks. Old cars SUCK. Even my beloved GS400.
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