shock and struts
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,193
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From: South Bay
Lexus SC Strut Assembly description
I hate to say it, but you are definitely wrong... as many others in this thread have already pointed out...
we have a coil over shock... any "strut" type suspension has the steering integrated into the strut itself...
even on the link you provided, it refers to everything as shocks... struts are only when used as in the pictures provided above, where the actual strut turns with the suspension, rather than ours that has two wishbones(control arms) and a coil over shock assembly....
we have a coil over shock... any "strut" type suspension has the steering integrated into the strut itself...
even on the link you provided, it refers to everything as shocks... struts are only when used as in the pictures provided above, where the actual strut turns with the suspension, rather than ours that has two wishbones(control arms) and a coil over shock assembly....
"Lexus SC Strut Assembly description:Struts are used on the front end of most vehicles produced in the last 15 years. On some cars struts will be used on all four corners of the car or truck. Struts are more than just a shock absorber; a strut assembly has integrated a number of suspension parts into one strut assembly. Lexus SC struts should always be replaced in pairs, as this will allow strut internal valves to be properly matched. If you do not change the Lexus SC struts as an axle set, it is probable that you will have an ill handling and very unsafe car. Make sure you replace the Lexus SC strut boots and the Lexus SC coil spring gaskets as these help the dirt and grime from contaminating the strut seals. Never attempt to replace your struts without the proper tools. The coil spring on the strut is under very heavy load, and if you remove the top retaining bolt without a coil spring compressor. If you want to replace the Lexus SC struts yourself, we recommend taking the strut assembly out as a unit and taking the strut to a shop to have the Lexus SC strut inserts replaced. This will save you 70% on the labor costs of changing the Lexus SC strut insert.
Like I said earlier, technically, we do not have struts. The term strut is a very specific device, one that incorporates the steering into one design. The coil-over-shock design we have on our cars evolved from the original strut design but without the steering component. So "techinically" we do not have a proper strut. But it is refered to as a strut assembly as seen in the above post. So while technically incorrect, it is acceptable to refer to our suspension as having struts. Any design incorporating the spring and shock into a singular device can be referred to as a strut. The original strut now has to be referred to as a McPherson strut. And coilovers popularly refer to the adjustable design such as TEIN. So struts we have.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. The following is a discription of the SC400 Strut assembly:
"Lexus SC Strut Assembly description:Struts are used on the front end of most vehicles produced in the last 15 years. On some cars struts will be used on all four corners of the car or truck. Struts are more than just a shock absorber; a strut assembly has integrated a number of suspension parts into one strut assembly. Lexus SC struts should always be replaced in pairs, as this will allow strut internal valves to be properly matched. If you do not change the Lexus SC struts as an axle set, it is probable that you will have an ill handling and very unsafe car. Make sure you replace the Lexus SC strut boots and the Lexus SC coil spring gaskets as these help the dirt and grime from contaminating the strut seals. Never attempt to replace your struts without the proper tools. The coil spring on the strut is under very heavy load, and if you remove the top retaining bolt without a coil spring compressor. If you want to replace the Lexus SC struts yourself, we recommend taking the strut assembly out as a unit and taking the strut to a shop to have the Lexus SC strut inserts replaced. This will save you 70% on the labor costs of changing the Lexus SC strut insert.
"Lexus SC Strut Assembly description:Struts are used on the front end of most vehicles produced in the last 15 years. On some cars struts will be used on all four corners of the car or truck. Struts are more than just a shock absorber; a strut assembly has integrated a number of suspension parts into one strut assembly. Lexus SC struts should always be replaced in pairs, as this will allow strut internal valves to be properly matched. If you do not change the Lexus SC struts as an axle set, it is probable that you will have an ill handling and very unsafe car. Make sure you replace the Lexus SC strut boots and the Lexus SC coil spring gaskets as these help the dirt and grime from contaminating the strut seals. Never attempt to replace your struts without the proper tools. The coil spring on the strut is under very heavy load, and if you remove the top retaining bolt without a coil spring compressor. If you want to replace the Lexus SC struts yourself, we recommend taking the strut assembly out as a unit and taking the strut to a shop to have the Lexus SC strut inserts replaced. This will save you 70% on the labor costs of changing the Lexus SC strut insert.
Q: What is the difference between shock absorbers and struts?
A. Struts and shocks are very similar in function, but very different in design. The job of both is to control excessive spring motion; however, struts are also a structural component of the suspension. Struts can take the place of two or three conventional suspension components and are often used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes.
from accctiresonline.com:
The Difference Between A Shock And Strut
Shock absorbers and struts are quite similar in some ways. They both dampen the bounce of the tire and stabilize the vehicle.
McPherson Struts, however, are an integral part of the front and/or rear suspension of the vehicle. The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking.
Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar. They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment. Also, if broken will not keep the vehicle from being driven.
A broken McPherson strut may keep the vehicle from being driven because of the potential loss of steering control.
Struts are much more expensive than shocks because they are more a part of the vehicle and take the place of many components that must be used in the conventional front suspension.
and last but not least from Koni's website:
Q: I often hear the terms strut and shock used interchangeably. Are they different?
A:Shocks and struts are similar in that they both damp (slow down) the vehicles motion. The key difference of a strut vs. a shock is that a shock only controls the cars motion while a strut is a locating member of the suspension. What this means is that if you remove a shock the spindle or axle will still be completely attached to the vehicle. If you remove a strut the spindle or axle will be able to move outside of its normal motion. Shocks and struts may or may not have a spring mounted to them either. It is often assumed that any damper with a spring is a strut, this is not the case.
do ya need any more???
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
From: South Bay
from Monroe's website:
Q: What is the difference between shock absorbers and struts?
A. Struts and shocks are very similar in function, but very different in design. The job of both is to control excessive spring motion; however, struts are also a structural component of the suspension. Struts can take the place of two or three conventional suspension components and are often used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes.
from accctiresonline.com:
The Difference Between A Shock And Strut
Shock absorbers and struts are quite similar in some ways. They both dampen the bounce of the tire and stabilize the vehicle.
McPherson Struts, however, are an integral part of the front and/or rear suspension of the vehicle. The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking.
Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar. They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment. Also, if broken will not keep the vehicle from being driven.
A broken McPherson strut may keep the vehicle from being driven because of the potential loss of steering control.
Struts are much more expensive than shocks because they are more a part of the vehicle and take the place of many components that must be used in the conventional front suspension.
and last but not least from Koni's website:
Q: I often hear the terms strut and shock used interchangeably. Are they different?
A:Shocks and struts are similar in that they both damp (slow down) the vehicles motion. The key difference of a strut vs. a shock is that a shock only controls the cars motion while a strut is a locating member of the suspension. What this means is that if you remove a shock the spindle or axle will still be completely attached to the vehicle. If you remove a strut the spindle or axle will be able to move outside of its normal motion. Shocks and struts may or may not have a spring mounted to them either. It is often assumed that any damper with a spring is a strut, this is not the case.
do ya need any more???
Q: What is the difference between shock absorbers and struts?
A. Struts and shocks are very similar in function, but very different in design. The job of both is to control excessive spring motion; however, struts are also a structural component of the suspension. Struts can take the place of two or three conventional suspension components and are often used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes.
from accctiresonline.com:
The Difference Between A Shock And Strut
Shock absorbers and struts are quite similar in some ways. They both dampen the bounce of the tire and stabilize the vehicle.
McPherson Struts, however, are an integral part of the front and/or rear suspension of the vehicle. The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking.
Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar. They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment. Also, if broken will not keep the vehicle from being driven.
A broken McPherson strut may keep the vehicle from being driven because of the potential loss of steering control.
Struts are much more expensive than shocks because they are more a part of the vehicle and take the place of many components that must be used in the conventional front suspension.
and last but not least from Koni's website:
Q: I often hear the terms strut and shock used interchangeably. Are they different?
A:Shocks and struts are similar in that they both damp (slow down) the vehicles motion. The key difference of a strut vs. a shock is that a shock only controls the cars motion while a strut is a locating member of the suspension. What this means is that if you remove a shock the spindle or axle will still be completely attached to the vehicle. If you remove a strut the spindle or axle will be able to move outside of its normal motion. Shocks and struts may or may not have a spring mounted to them either. It is often assumed that any damper with a spring is a strut, this is not the case.
do ya need any more???
Exactly, so the SC400 has a strut assembly because it is an integral part of the independent suspension. When a set is replaced an alignment MUST be performed. if you simply replace a shock in a vehicle that does not have struts, an alignment is not necessary. Thanks for proving the SC400 is equipped with struts.
you don't have to do an alignment if you replace shocks / springs with same height shocks / springs... there is no alignment or adjustment settings within the shock/spring setup...
if you lower one, then yes, but that doesn't matter what type of suspension you have... however, I repeat, if you are replacing shocks or springs or both with the same thing, you DO NOT have to do an alignment on the car...
the shocks in our car provide no turning support, nor do they provide for any type of alignment differences (other than ride height)
this will be my last post regarding this, as you are obviously too blind to read, or too stubborn to admit you are wrong, however these simple quotes from THREE DIFFERENT SOURCES should suffice:
"The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support. It is an integral part of the suspension geometry and directly affects the vehicle tracking."
(our shocks do not have anything to do with the upper suspension or the wheel turning, they do not have anything to do with vehicle tracking or suspension geometry)
directly from Koni's website (one of the leading aftermarket shock/strut providers):
"It is often assumed that any damper with a spring is a strut, this is not the case."
(I don't think there's much more to say other than ours are dampers with a spring, and according to this, dampers with springs are NOT struts)
last but not least:
"used as a pivot point for steering and to adjust the position of the wheels for alignment purposes. "
(ours are not used as a pivot point, and are NOT used for steering, and are NOT used for alignment purposes)
In your defense, I once thought the same, I once thought than anything with a coil over a damper was a strut, however, I proved myself wrong once I went searching for info, as I hope you do too...
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,881
Likes: 1
From: The Shogun's Dojo
This argument is frickin hilarious. Especially since the dude last posted about his issues in the middle of last summer.
Technically, based on the exact precise specific definition of a strut, no...our cars don't have "struts" in the exact precise specific definition of a strut...but the dealer and everyone else refers to them as struts so...who really gives a flying crap what you call them. I don't. Call them "springy sticks" for all I care.
Technically, based on the exact precise specific definition of a strut, no...our cars don't have "struts" in the exact precise specific definition of a strut...but the dealer and everyone else refers to them as struts so...who really gives a flying crap what you call them. I don't. Call them "springy sticks" for all I care.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 0
From: South Bay
will you drop it already... your interpretation is incorrect, I'm sorry...
I'll give you a couple more quick quotes, and if you like, you will see you are incorrect...
"Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar." < this shows that our cars have shocks inside the coil spring...
"The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support." < my brothers Eclipse has struts up front, our cars, on the other hand do not...
"They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment." < you can entirely remove our shocks, reinstall, and not have to realign the car, however, and you would know this if you've ever aligned a car, as I have, that once a strut is removed from it's lower mounts, and sometimes even the upper mounts, an alignment is definitely needed, as there is no way to get it back in the exact same spot, however, with ours, the shock assembly only deals with height (as any shock/spring combo does), and the upper and lower a-arms (wishbones, if you like) locate the suspension setup for alignment - ther e is NO alignment adjustment on the shocks...
last but not least:
"There is confusion among car owners about the difference between shocks and struts. Shocks are just one part of the entire suspension system, while a strut is a complete suspension assembly that replaces the upper ball joint, shock, and spring with one unit. Shocks are normally composed of the following parts: assembly brackets, shock absorber fixations, spring seats, outer tube bottom, rod guides, valves, and support ring." <why would it have spring seats on the shock? simple because it would be a coil-over shock...
Now, if you can't read that and admit you are wrong, you, my friend are the most stubborn, unrelenting person I've ever talked to...
one other place you might find these coil over shocks is on, say a bicycle... my full suspension bike has a coil over shock for it's suspension - the swingarm itself is located by it's own adjustment bushings, and the spring over the shock holds it up? by your definition, this would also be called a strut, it, however is not...
maybe you could try telling champ and F1 car drivers their cars have struts, because they have a similar coil over shock setup... it's located through a linkage instead of directly in the suspension for aero purposes, but it looks like a small version of what we have...
last thing, and I want EVERYONE to click on this... (it's the dealer service manual for front suspension)
http://tsurf.no-ip.com/supra/TSRM/Fr...Suspension.pdf
it states the word SHOCK about a million times, and at no point in time mentions struts... (it is for the MK3 supra, but they use almost identical suspension setup as us, in fact, it looks the exact same as ours)
I'll give you a couple more quick quotes, and if you like, you will see you are incorrect...
"Shock absorbers are installed inside or near the coil spring, leaf spring or torsion bar." < this shows that our cars have shocks inside the coil spring...
"The strut assembly provides the upper suspension and wheel turning support." < my brothers Eclipse has struts up front, our cars, on the other hand do not...
"They are not an integral part of the suspension system and as such do not affect vehicle alignment." < you can entirely remove our shocks, reinstall, and not have to realign the car, however, and you would know this if you've ever aligned a car, as I have, that once a strut is removed from it's lower mounts, and sometimes even the upper mounts, an alignment is definitely needed, as there is no way to get it back in the exact same spot, however, with ours, the shock assembly only deals with height (as any shock/spring combo does), and the upper and lower a-arms (wishbones, if you like) locate the suspension setup for alignment - ther e is NO alignment adjustment on the shocks...
last but not least:
"There is confusion among car owners about the difference between shocks and struts. Shocks are just one part of the entire suspension system, while a strut is a complete suspension assembly that replaces the upper ball joint, shock, and spring with one unit. Shocks are normally composed of the following parts: assembly brackets, shock absorber fixations, spring seats, outer tube bottom, rod guides, valves, and support ring." <why would it have spring seats on the shock? simple because it would be a coil-over shock...
Now, if you can't read that and admit you are wrong, you, my friend are the most stubborn, unrelenting person I've ever talked to...
one other place you might find these coil over shocks is on, say a bicycle... my full suspension bike has a coil over shock for it's suspension - the swingarm itself is located by it's own adjustment bushings, and the spring over the shock holds it up? by your definition, this would also be called a strut, it, however is not...
maybe you could try telling champ and F1 car drivers their cars have struts, because they have a similar coil over shock setup... it's located through a linkage instead of directly in the suspension for aero purposes, but it looks like a small version of what we have...
last thing, and I want EVERYONE to click on this... (it's the dealer service manual for front suspension)
http://tsurf.no-ip.com/supra/TSRM/Fr...Suspension.pdf
it states the word SHOCK about a million times, and at no point in time mentions struts... (it is for the MK3 supra, but they use almost identical suspension setup as us, in fact, it looks the exact same as ours)
Last edited by mitsuguy; Jan 3, 2007 at 11:44 PM.
Pit Crew
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 128
Likes: 3
From: Nevada
Hey Guys,
I'm not sure I understand. Could somebody explain one more time the difference betweena shock and a strut??
LOL!! Just kidding!!
Would somebody with good search skills help me identify the shock/strut I need for the front end of my GS400? I'm not having any luck!
I'm not sure I understand. Could somebody explain one more time the difference betweena shock and a strut??
LOL!! Just kidding!!
Would somebody with good search skills help me identify the shock/strut I need for the front end of my GS400? I'm not having any luck!
this thread!
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