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Posting this for anyone who hasn't seen this particular video.
At 1:07:12 CCN recommends Idemitsu PSF instead of ATF.
I haven't formed an opinion either way but I thought it may be worth discussing...
I am going to catch flack for this but I 100% do not agree with most things car care nut says, I feel he spreads misinformation and has no idea what he is talking about sometimes.
You dont want to mix the two because of certain detergents friction modifiers etc, may turn to gel and destroy the power steering system. Another thought is the ATF won't mess with the seals I am not sure about psf but that is always a gamble that it could mess up seals or blow the rack apart.
I feel he is very misinformed toyota racks/PS systems are incredibly robust and almost never fail. Ps pumps all have a mild whine to them with the earlier 90's-2000's but that is completely normal.
I am going to catch flack for this but I 100% do not agree with most things car care nut says, I feel he spreads misinformation and has no idea what he is talking about sometimes.
You dont want to mix the two because of certain detergents friction modifiers etc, may turn to gel and destroy the power steering system. Another thought is the ATF won't mess with the seals I am not sure about psf but that is always a gamble that it could mess up seals or blow the rack apart.
I feel he is very misinformed toyota racks/PS systems are incredibly robust and almost never fail. Ps pumps all have a mild whine to them with the earlier 90's-2000's but that is completely normal.
Very true about the mild whine that most of the early LS430s have. No big deal. I have 171,000 miles with no PS issues. I also agree that our steering racks are fairly robust with almost no issues to talk about. I guess with the Car Nut, he needs to keep generating you tubes, so sometimes his resources run low.
I am a bit confused. For the LS430, I've always read that ATF fluid is supposed to be used. Dextron 3 compatible. I thought PSF is usually quite different. So where does this Idemitsu fit into this? Why not just use Dextron 3 ? I do like CCN guy, but this surprised me. FWIW, I had dealer flush/replace my PS fluid about 2 years ago, first and so far only time. It's the fluid I change least, with brake fluid being the most frequent (after oil).
It is very different don't see how this particular PSF is safe when others are definitely not. IMO CCN should not give "expert" opinions on transmissions he's said quite a few things that are questionable. The guy is a great mechanic but no one is infallible.
So far as I can see Idemitsu PSF is factory fit for Honda/Acura, not for Toyota/Lexus.
Toyota sell their own brand ATF/Dexron III so chances are that is what they use.
However, if you are removing the rack and replacing the entirety of the fluid, then PSF is probably fine.
I wouldn't mix it with Dexron III ATF though.
I am a bit confused. For the LS430, I've always read that ATF fluid is supposed to be used. Dextron 3 compatible. I thought PSF is usually quite different. So where does this Idemitsu fit into this? Why not just use Dextron 3 ? I do like CCN guy, but this surprised me. FWIW, I had dealer flush/replace my PS fluid about 2 years ago, first and so far only time. It's the fluid I change least, with brake fluid being the most frequent (after oil).
Exactly. OEM spec for an LS430 is Toyota WS Automatic Transmission Fluid. Go to a Lexus dealer and that is what they will put in. End of discussion.
I wouldn't use mineral oil based/type fluid in an ATF system like that.....use a synthetic ATF fluid, they probably spec WS or whatever these days so they don't have to stock the older fluids. My car was on original fluid at 200k when I got it and left at 270k+ with synthetic stuff without any issues at any point.
I wouldn't use mineral oil based/type fluid in an ATF system like that.....use a synthetic ATF fluid, they probably spec WS or whatever these days so they don't have to stock the older fluids. My car was on original fluid at 200k when I got it and left at 270k+ with synthetic stuff without any issues at any point.
I would humbly suggest that to keep a Toyota/Lexus lasting forever, under absolutely no circumstances use non-OEM fluids. E.g., don't go to Autozone and ask for Prestone coolant, of which the variant you'd be handed is the generic "Asian car" stuff. Nope. Go to the parts counter at the Toyota or Lexus dealer, give them your VIN, and they will get you the exact right stuff. Same thing for PS, brake, differential, yadda yadda. All the seals and other materials were designed with very specific fluids in mind.
The only time I'd let you off the hook is for using aftermarket motor oil. You can certainly use normal Mobil1 etc. without worry.
I would humbly suggest that to keep a Toyota/Lexus lasting forever, under absolutely no circumstances use non-OEM fluids. E.g., don't go to Autozone and ask for Prestone coolant, of which the variant you'd be handed is the generic "Asian car" stuff. Nope. Go to the parts counter at the Toyota or Lexus dealer, give them your VIN, and they will get you the exact right stuff. Same thing for PS, brake, differential, yadda yadda. All the seals and other materials were designed with very specific fluids in mind.
The only time I'd let you off the hook is for using aftermarket motor oil. You can certainly use normal Mobil1 etc. without worry.
The factory PS fluid is non-synthetic and WS is also very low grade. Buy Idemetsu stuff as they are true group 4 synth and they formulate to meet exact spec, that what I used in the 430s and the 460 so I wouldn't have to use the group 3 stuff Toyota rebottles from Aisin. Same thing with brake fluid, the Toyota fluid is very low grade dot 3, I use synthetic 5.1 from Bosch called ESI6 and it was intentionally designed to prevent issues with advanced brake systems like what the LS460 uses and also provide faster response of VDIM and ABS. Coolant I use Pentofrost for the same reasons, they formulate to compensate for an imperfect flush and contamination from age with a much better additive and lubrication package than factory and have a formula for EVERY car not generic anything. I used A1 for the 430 and A4 for the 460 as they are slightly different and UNLIKE Toyota that just slaps the long life stuff from newer cars backwards into the 430 era cars it's actually the original spec with much higher protection. (forms the layer over parts faster)
The stuff Lexus/Toyota sells is not the end all for quality. Plus I got more than enough miles out the 430 without problems and the 460 is going nicely as well, I don't drive Lexus anymore myself but I do still work on them and I like my personal cars to be using the best so I don't have to think about it much.
The factory PS fluid is non-synthetic and WS is also very low grade.....I used A1 for the 430 and A4 for the 460 as they are slightly different and UNLIKE Toyota that just slaps the long life stuff from newer cars backwards into the 430 era cars it's actually the original spec with much higher protection. (forms the layer over parts faster)
The stuff Lexus/Toyota sells is not the end all for quality. Plus I got more than enough miles out the 430 without problems and the 460 is going nicely as well, I don't drive Lexus anymore myself but I do still work on them and I like my personal cars to be using the best so I don't have to think about it much.
Interesting. I have no idea if my dealer uses proper fluids across the board anyway, but as I am not DIY I feel more comfortable going there when possible, for "fixed/known cost" maintenance.. (I did not go there for timing belt, however.)
My car has around 160k MILES/19YO, and I've never yet had a fluids-related issue. Brake systems rusting, trans failing, engine, plugged/leaking radiator, etc. Most services were at dealer. Brake fluid every 3-4 years, diff every 60k miles or so, trans fluid replacement (dealer will not do a proper drain and fill!) at around 100k and will do it again next year due to age rather than miles. Power Steering I actually did (at dealer)after watching Care Care Nut show a sludged (varnished) filter in the reservoir that starved/killed a power steering rack. Kudos to him for that. The fluid looks clear still.
I also usually use conventional oil. Synth is not much more, but dealers/Lube places charge typically $70 or so more, because they can. I'll save the $60-$100 every 6 months or so (usually 3-4 k miles on it in that time). I admit it could be a mistake, but the engine remains brilliantly smooth and doesn't ever need oil added between changes. I suspect my car will probably rust out (sad!) before the primary mechanicals fail, but that's a slight gamble I guess with the conv oil.
A side note on cost: my Cadillac dealer (I also have an XTS) had a long-time coupon for Dexos oil change for $60-$80. Often did it there if car was in anyway. Recently they have "oil change service service notification" being mailed to me: price $180! For a 5-6 quart oil change in a car thar could take a syn blend if Dexos. It shows how insane things are. It pushes me away from dealer. Usually I consider gong to dealer known rate things (coolant flush, brake flush, etc.) rather than small repairs, as $250 diagnostic fees add up fast. But an oil change at nearly $200 when I can get adequate oil at a quick-change place for $60 (syn blend dexos 5w-30) has to ,make me think.
So conv 5w30 for my Lexus unless there is a fair price including labor on synth, but other than oil, I feel most comfortable with original fluids: WS trans, pink coolant long-life every 5+ years now, etc. Can't say what they are really using for my diff... I'll have to ask next time.
These fluid discussions always crack me up! I think we can all agree on the fact that all these fluids being discussed are still likely better than generic "power steering fluid" bottle that is covered with dust at the grocery store, that's for sure!
These are just machines. Just put whatever fluid you want in so long as it meets the requirements. My 89 4runner has made it to over 300,000 miles and has never seen an ounce of "OEM" fluid since day one when my dad bought it new.
No need to line the pockets of the local stealership that will likely have a 300% markup on anything they sell.
Well, I agree with you to an extent. As long as you're using approved fluids, it's fine. If you use the wrong fluids, your seals are not likely to hold up well.
These cars require so very very little maintenance that it hardly seems like a big deal to at least get the correct stuff for it. They are engineered to perfection, so why mess with a good thing? My '05 Premium costs almost nothing to maintain, and it's in perfect condition. Most local indies will not have a fit if you bring your own fluids and request that they use it.
Originally Posted by YoshiMan
These fluid discussions always crack me up! I think we can all agree on the fact that all these fluids being discussed are still likely better than generic "power steering fluid" bottle that is covered with dust at the grocery store, that's for sure!
These are just machines. Just put whatever fluid you want in so long as it meets the requirements. My 89 4runner has made it to over 300,000 miles and has never seen an ounce of "OEM" fluid since day one when my dad bought it new.
No need to line the pockets of the local stealership that will likely have a 300% markup on anything they sell.
05-21-24, 06:59 PM
Car Care Nut PS fluid recommendation
