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I am not really sure what to say. Its all done to get people into the store. If someone can't figure out the fine print or read through the promo and figure it out, then not much else to say. Does a McDonald's Bic Mac ever look like the Big Macs in the TV ads? Marketing is marketing,
it may be 'marketing' but it's also highly dishonest and a car purchase is certainly a way bigger thing than a big mac. sure, caveat emptor, but car dealers take it to a whole different level of dishonest. do i 'deal with it', sure, i go in, knowing it's likely to be unpleasant, that i'm going to be lied to, that the salesperson is going to try to become my new best friend when they couldn't care less, and even if i do make a deal, i'll be pressured and lied to again by the "f&i" guy who will waste my time for another hour or more making me sign forms 'declining' this that and the other... when i eventually get the vehicle i'm exhausted and hope to never see the place again.
Originally Posted by LexsCTJill
All aspects of a franchise vs corporate dealer are put at a disadvantage for the franchise. How does labor pricing in service get set? What is the true cost of Genuine Mercedes parts for the franchisee vs the true cost of Genuine Mercedes parts for the corporate store? What are the costs to get those parts to the franchise vs the corporate? Who gets the brand new S-Class first?
so what, why do you have sympathy for the franchise (dealer)?
that "only thing other" is HUGE. since exchange rates can change fast and often, prices must take that into account. sometimes the consumer wins and sometimes they lose, but like a casino, it's setup so mostly they lose.
and dealers aren't greedy with fake add-on packages (pin stripes for $200 anyone? how about extra rust proofing or upholstry protection for $500, tire warranty for $200, a couple of oil changes for $200, and on and on), endless fees and outright lying when the final deal is presented that doesn't match what was discussed?
MSRP is all I was talking about. Dealer prices and markup is another layer of greed. Direct sales would probably eliminate some of the dirty tricks, but I am not convinced. Mfg themselves have been known to cheat so why wouldn't they if they sold direct. Wrt to exchange rates, daily rates fluctuate but overall trends remain within a fairly stable band, but it is a good excuse for price gauging.
I waded through this whole thread and both arguments have merit and grounds for concerns.... If Tesla does not want or can't afford to establish a network of dealerships (let alone charging stations) and can sell their cars "direct" that is up to them. State laws will not deter car buyers from buying in one state and bringing them into a home state that may not be friendly to the Tesla model.
Buying (I do not lease so no experience) a new car via a dealership has been some of my worst experiences as a consumer but finding the "best price" always involved cross shopping at 2 or more (or 10) dealers before you found one willing to sell you the car you wanted at the price you were willing to pay... My last "new car" purchase was in 2007 for a Honda Civic that I did on the internet starting out on email but ended up mostly on the telephone. Still had to go to the dealer to get the car and go through the hand off of sales to finance (which I was insulted since I was paying cash) but I do not think that process has changed. Same gauntlet of having to turn down a lot of products/services post sale I had no intentions of buying and then the finance manager got upset when I rated that part of the transaction in a negative light....
The CPO purchase of the '14 LS was actually done by the wife but even then I had some challenges on the paperwork with the dealership since they still are archaic in that area. (But since I did not have to "shop" for her car it was not as bad...).
A lot is riding on the $35K model launch and their battery technology staying ahead of the ramping up competitors. If supply and demand is there Tesla can always adjust their distribution channels down the road...
There are over 16,000 franchise dealers in the USA ranging from every legacy, import and European manufacturer. So far Tesla has 260 "galleries". In some states the company is allowed to sell-direct. Meaning their representative can talk directly to you about price. In states where this is not the case (Michigan, Texas and others), the Tesla rep is not allowed to talk price - you get to see the vehicle and the rep tells you about its options, tech etc.
After that, you get to "reserve" your order and then Tesla delivers the vehicle to you. After that, you need service etc? You get to drive to the states where Tesla is legally allowed to sell/service their product. Could be hundreds of miles and hours of driving.
So what is the pin-***** in sales that retail car dealers are worrying about? Nobody would advocate for the end of the retail distribution channel. These dealerships provide good paying jobs, service and parts. Somebody has to sponsor the local little league team, right?
More importantly. Tesla wants control of its imaging, its presentation and its marketing. I doubt Musk wants to hand off his baby to a bunch of Dodge and Chevy dealers.
On the way back to Toronto today from New York State I came across this new Tesla dealer on the side of the highway. I decided to take a quick stop. Looks like a dealer and not a gallery to me. Looks like they have plenty of room for stock on hand.
Nice looking gallery. It's customers will also be able to access the full on Ontario BEV tax credit - $14,000. Other electric vehicles get this credit as well, but they happen to be names like Leaf, Bolt, Volt etc. You don't like someone setting up a business in your area LexsCTJill? Someone built that building, engineered it. Workers got paid to build it. The real estate agent made a commission. Now it will employ local people who will work there for a cool brand. And it pays local property taxes etc.
Nothing wrong with a new business in Ontario. Is it a dealer or a display gallery because of dealership lobbying an politics?
Its a big building with lots of inventory, I would estimate about 80 parking spots out front with very likely a full inventory indoors. . Most of the new Tesla models had a price sticker. Most were retailing for $160K CAN. That said, off site a few more dealers down the street was the Telsa service center.
Last edited by Toys4RJill; Jul 16, 2017 at 08:51 PM.
They must compete. Two cars dealers selling the same products are gonna be competing. The whole idea of banning direct sales in the US is to allow the franchise to have a chance. The franchise is at a disadvantage from every angle.
this is straight up code for dealers are inefficient but we need laws to protect inefficiency because reasons. Getting mixed signals in this thread. Told its unfair for dealers to have to compete with manufacturers then dealers are most efficient model.
Should we have laws that protect Blockbuster and Hollywood video to "allow them to have a chance" against Netflix and Amazon Prime. Blockbuster/Hollywood is at a disadvantage from every angle.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; Jul 17, 2017 at 06:04 AM.
this is straight up code for dealers are inefficient but we need laws to protect inefficiency because reasons. Getting mixed signals in this thread. Told its unfair for dealers to have to compete with manufacturers then dealers are most efficient model.
You should get some mixed signals (that should be your own personal warning sign) because there are some of us who realize that buying direct from the manufacturer will lead to higher prices and longer waits for your cars. There is nothing efficient about the Tesla model as this is just the media trying to stir up something to read. Furthermore, Tesla does not make money, so that should be another warning sign as the media fails to mention this.
I am not against a direct to the customer model, but I am against a manufacturer competing with the a franchised dealer as the manufacturer has the advantage.
On the way back to Toronto today from New York State I came across this new Tesla dealer on the side of the highway. I decided to take a quick stop. Looks like a dealer and not a gallery to me. Looks like they have plenty of room for stock on hand.
Did you go inside the main showroom and look at it?
If it was anything like the local Tesla shop here in Northern Virginia (at Tyson's Corner), the interior of the place looks more like a concrete-walled warehouse than a typical auto dealership. When I was there, there was one or two plain, no-frills desks for the sales-reps/manager, a stripped-down Model S chassis on the concrete floor, one complete Model S on the floor next to it for display, and that's it.
(Oh, and NO vehicles available for test-drives...so much for a review).
At least, from the pictures you posted, there might be something on the lot for potential customers to sample.
Last edited by mmarshall; Jul 17, 2017 at 06:54 AM.
I am not against a direct to the customer model, but I am against a manufacturer competing with the a franchised dealer as the manufacturer has the advantage.
so in this thread i've now read this, and i've read that manufacturers should ONLY be able to sell direct if they have independent dealers as well.
You should get some mixed signals (that should be your own personal warning sign) because there are some of us who realize that buying direct from the manufacturer will lead to higher prices and longer waits for your cars. There is nothing efficient about the Tesla model as this is just the media trying to stir up something to read. Furthermore, Tesla does not make money, so that should be another warning sign as the media fails to mention this.
I am not against a direct to the customer model, but I am against a manufacturer competing with the a franchised dealer as the manufacturer has the advantage.
tesla doesnt make money not due to the dealer direct model, it doesnt make money because EVs dont make money. False equivalence
youre in favor of protectionist laws to protect dealerships at the detrement of consumers. If dealers are so confident they are the most efficient model then they would have no issue removing this law that dates back to the early days of cars. Even the DOJ referenced the same study that said it would drop the price by almost 9% and actually broke down the numbers.
The most comprehensive estimate of the savings in the vehicle order-to-delivery cycle from build-to-order, direct manufacturer sales is set out in a 2000 report by a Goldman Sachs analyst.(10) Based on an average vehicle price of $26,000, total cost savings in the order-to-delivery cycle were estimated as $2,225 or about 8.6%.(11) The components of those savings were as follows: $832 from improvement in matching supply with consumer demand; $575 from lower inventory; $387 from fewer dealerships; $381 from lower sales commissions and $50 from lower overall shipping costs, since fewer dealerships would reduce the number of distribution points. The Goldman Sachs report identified other possible build-to-order savings of about $1,000 per vehicle in product development, manufacturing flexibility and procurement and supply but the lion's share of the benefits were attributed to improvements in the order-to-delivery cycle. In a nutshell, the current auto industry make-to-stock sales model takes a lot of money, much of it tied up in inventories and devoted to discounting to clear lots of less popular vehicles, to try to sell cars that can come up short of what customers would really prefer.
While the Goldman Sachs report provides estimates of potential cost savings, a real-world example of the benefits of a build-to-order, direct manufacturer sales model is GM do Brasil's experience with production and sale of the Chevrolet Celta economy car at its modern Blue Macaw plant in Gravatai.(12) Since 2000, customers in Brazil can order the Celta over the internet from a site that links them with GM's assembly plant and 470 dealers nationwide. By 2006, 700,000 Celtas had been produced and the car continues to be one of Brazil's best sellers.(13) Consumers have 20 "build-combinations" from which to configure a model of their choice, including colors and accessories, and can view each change as it is being made. GM built five distribution centers throughout Brazil to reduce transportation time from its assembly plant and buyers can track location of their car online on its way to delivery at a dealer of their choice. The time from configuration at the factory to delivery is only about a week, in contrast to the several week wait that can be common in ordering a car in the United States.
The Celta was designed by GM in collaboration with suppliers who deliver just-in-time pre-assembled modules to the factory. GM estimates that collaboration in design and manufacturing enabled it to use 60 percent fewer suppliers and 50 percent fewer parts than in a traditional assembly operation. According to Mark Hogan, president of e-GM at the time of the Celta's introduction, GM can sell Celtas 24 hours a day and enjoys a competitive advantage from reduced production time, lower inventory levels and an overall more efficient distribution and sales model where dealers need to stock only two models, one for the show room and one for test drives. Consumers benefit from Celta's online no-haggle pricing structure, where prices are about 6 percent lower than for sales made through conventional distribution channels. The price is lower because GM passes on to consumers some of the tax benefits it gets from the Brazilian government as a result of the reduced inventory and real estate associated with online sales.
Last edited by 4TehNguyen; Jul 17, 2017 at 08:16 AM.
so in this thread i've now read this, and i've read that manufacturers should ONLY be able to sell direct if they have independent dealers as well.
I don't believe j have ever advocated for both under one brand. Fact of the matter is that is some states, manufacturers can sell direct, but they can't offer a franchise system in the same state. They just choose not to ever sell direct. Does that make sense?
Did you go inside the main showroom and look at it?
If it was anything like the local Tesla shop here in Northern Virginia (at Tyson's Corner), the interior of the place looks more like a concrete-walled warehouse than a typical auto dealership. When I was there, there was one or two plain, no-frills desks for the sales-reps/manager, a stripped-down Model S chassis on the concrete floor, one complete Model S on the floor next to it for display, and that's it.
(Oh, and NO vehicles available for test-drives...so much for a review).
At least, from the pictures you posted, there might be something on the lot for potential customers to sample.
That's called a warehouse aesthetic. It's supposed to look that way.
