need quic help - 2007 rx350
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
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From: florida
need quic help - 2007 rx350- solved!!
hey fellas.
im new here and am posting to try to get ome decent data for my Mom's 2007 rx350
she bought it new in 2006 (april i believe) and is in for the 15K service as i type this.
the dealer calls and states that there is water in the brakes - needs a flush/fill.
knowing what i know about brakes (not alot) i suggest to her that this might be unnecessary and that the brake system should have some warrantiable components to it (its a closed system right?)
the dealer calls her again and refutes the closed system, stating that a car "this old" needs a brake flush anyway. he even said he googled it to make sure.
any ideas ??? i dont want them taking advantage of my mom.
thanks much
-sms
ps- this is her second rx- the first - a 2002 was 100% trouble free. traded in one day before the end of the warranty with a mere 24K on the clock (never brake flushed either)
im new here and am posting to try to get ome decent data for my Mom's 2007 rx350
she bought it new in 2006 (april i believe) and is in for the 15K service as i type this.
the dealer calls and states that there is water in the brakes - needs a flush/fill.
knowing what i know about brakes (not alot) i suggest to her that this might be unnecessary and that the brake system should have some warrantiable components to it (its a closed system right?)
the dealer calls her again and refutes the closed system, stating that a car "this old" needs a brake flush anyway. he even said he googled it to make sure.
any ideas ??? i dont want them taking advantage of my mom.
thanks much
-sms
ps- this is her second rx- the first - a 2002 was 100% trouble free. traded in one day before the end of the warranty with a mere 24K on the clock (never brake flushed either)
Last edited by esemes; Oct 15, 2008 at 10:59 AM.
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: florida
they told my mom that it "sometimes just happens"
the only other Lex dealer remotely close is owned by the same Co. as this one - im betting they're linked up for the most part.
my next question is IF there is water in the system, a flush wont prevent it from happening again, so what components have failed and need replacement...........
arghh..
Out of Warranty
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,925
Likes: 13
From: Houston, Republic of Texas
That's a good question for your dealer. If they flush the system, how are they going to prevent future water entry?Normally, water gets into the brake system via condensation. Those big rubber bags in the master cylinder reservoir are intended to exclude air from the system, even when the fluid level falls a bit. Finding a significant amount of water in the brake fluid (unless the car has been submerged) is almost impossible at this age and mileage. In order to bring in a sufficient amount of damp air to condense water into the system would require a MASSIVE loss of fluid that should have been detectable in brake performance.
There is a second way water could have entered the system - and that's one we'd rather not think about. Someone could have poured water into the brake reservoirs in order to justify an expensive drain and flush. There are dealerships that might try this, it's not completely unknown.
Either way, it sounds like a scam; but just to be sure, you might try calling Lexus Customer Assistance at:
The Lexus Customer Assistance Center
Monday - Friday, 6:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. PT
Phone: 1-800-255-3987 prompt #4
Fax: 1-310-468-2992
Explain the problem and relate your experience. Ask if water intrusion into the brake hydraulics is even possible.
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,335
Likes: 212
From: Miami, Florida
Welcome to the Club.
The thing that I know that can happen to brake systems is that some air can get into there and that brake fluid can get contaminated, but even then that is remote and especially not at that mileage they are talking about. I have heard a few stories over the years from people here, some in PM, about dealers saying that there is a problem with this or that, and the reasons sound somewhat far-fetched. When I last took my RX300 to Lexus at the dealer in San Antonio, they actually would show me what they were talking about and I could visibly see whatever little issue it was and then make a judgment call. Now in that case, I didn't think the dealer was trying to screw me, as each time I could see/feel what they were referring to.
If they give some story about how Florida humidity can do it, that's also garbage. I grew up in South Florida and also lived near Tampa earlier this year and I still have never seen nor heard of such an issue.
The thing that I know that can happen to brake systems is that some air can get into there and that brake fluid can get contaminated, but even then that is remote and especially not at that mileage they are talking about. I have heard a few stories over the years from people here, some in PM, about dealers saying that there is a problem with this or that, and the reasons sound somewhat far-fetched. When I last took my RX300 to Lexus at the dealer in San Antonio, they actually would show me what they were talking about and I could visibly see whatever little issue it was and then make a judgment call. Now in that case, I didn't think the dealer was trying to screw me, as each time I could see/feel what they were referring to.
If they give some story about how Florida humidity can do it, that's also garbage. I grew up in South Florida and also lived near Tampa earlier this year and I still have never seen nor heard of such an issue.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,562
Likes: 14
From: California
The only reason I would take my 2007RX to a Lexus dealer is for warranty issues. These times are tough for new car dealers. Doing unnecessary maintenance or repairs is not all that uncommon. Question everything!
FYI - I have my local Toyota dealer take care of routine maintenance. It is much less expensive compared to Lexus dealers.
FYI - I have my local Toyota dealer take care of routine maintenance. It is much less expensive compared to Lexus dealers.
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sounds something that is out of the ordinary, not impossible but not likely. i would take it to an outside shop for a look or like someone else suggested why not to a toyota dealer?
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Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: florida
thanks for the replies guys:::
the car doesnt even see rain (although we get our share here in clearwater) as she doesnt drive in bad weather or at night..
today the dealer (their name is quite easy w/ the abovementioned city reference) DID flush/fill (repair??) the brake system.
they DID put it on her bill, but then credited it back off (to the tune of 190 total, iirc)
guess they want her back for the 2010 model afterall. (the 09 loaner seems virtually the same, minus the nicieties of her model)
so, that said, a big THANKS for the data here.
sometimes things work out well for us and this was one time!
SMS
the car doesnt even see rain (although we get our share here in clearwater) as she doesnt drive in bad weather or at night..
today the dealer (their name is quite easy w/ the abovementioned city reference) DID flush/fill (repair??) the brake system.
they DID put it on her bill, but then credited it back off (to the tune of 190 total, iirc)
guess they want her back for the 2010 model afterall. (the 09 loaner seems virtually the same, minus the nicieties of her model)
so, that said, a big THANKS for the data here.
sometimes things work out well for us and this was one time!
SMS
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,576
Likes: 1,393
From: Austin, TX
Glad it worked out for you.
One of the issues with the brake fluid is that it absorbs water moisture and over time makes the fluid compressible and builds rust inside the brake system.
The brake system is not a closed loop system. Your master cylinder is exposed and is gravity fed.
The solution is to do a brake fluid flush. The question is how often and when. I do it every other year. If you live in mostly dry (not humid), you can flush less frequently.
Note: It is advised that you use a fresh bottle of fluid. Half empty bottles can cause the moisture level to rise inside the fluid sitting on the shelf.
Salim
One of the issues with the brake fluid is that it absorbs water moisture and over time makes the fluid compressible and builds rust inside the brake system.
The brake system is not a closed loop system. Your master cylinder is exposed and is gravity fed.
The solution is to do a brake fluid flush. The question is how often and when. I do it every other year. If you live in mostly dry (not humid), you can flush less frequently.
Note: It is advised that you use a fresh bottle of fluid. Half empty bottles can cause the moisture level to rise inside the fluid sitting on the shelf.
Salim
The question just begs to be asked where did they see this water? I mean water is heavier than oil so it would be at the bottom of the reservoir, the reservoir is gravity fed so unless the whole system has a lot of water in it there would not be any water sitting in the bottom of the reservoir unless someone just poured it in.
CL Community Team
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,576
Likes: 1,393
From: Austin, TX
I suspect, service guys tried to over-sell and overstated the "absorbed moisture" as "water" in the system.
There is always a possibility of addition of water, but it would have to be intentional (mistake/malice) or freak accident. Very unlikely.
Salim
There is always a possibility of addition of water, but it would have to be intentional (mistake/malice) or freak accident. Very unlikely.
Salim
Thread Starter
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: florida
guys, i guess we'll never know in this particular case.
my Mom(65) and my Gmom(94) might look like a 'whale' when they roll up at the dealer every six months for service, but i dont wanna really speculate.
the bottom line (for me) is that they not only did the service, but had it done on their dime. they did right by us.
im just grateful that it didnt have to escalate into anything further.
-SMS
my Mom(65) and my Gmom(94) might look like a 'whale' when they roll up at the dealer every six months for service, but i dont wanna really speculate.
the bottom line (for me) is that they not only did the service, but had it done on their dime. they did right by us.
im just grateful that it didnt have to escalate into anything further.
-SMS
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