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I personally feel Lexuses post-2010 are far more attractive inside and out than their predecessors. They are more appealing to younger folks like myself and have nicer interiors without a doubt. 10 yrs ago Lexus interiors were definitely cheaper feeling.
Keep in mind that 10 year old interior competes with other 10 year old interiors. Ever sit in a 2008 528i? Now that's cheap and plastic(y)
The greatest GS is by far the 2nd generation (MY 1998-2005).
I still see so many of them and would love to have one again and modify it with all the JDM aftermarket stuff - just need more garage space lol!
To me its still one of the best sedan designs and the interior was ahead of its time. The engines were also class leading back in those days.
The build quality and reliability of those cars is unmatched along with the LS of that era.
I agree.
What would've been more perfect out of the box is to have the 2nd gen GS WITH the 4th gen suspension/handling
16" tires with a 60 series sidewall is nowhere a "sports sedan"
Keep in mind that 10 year old interior competes with other 10 year old interiors. Ever sit in a 2008 528i? Now that's cheap and plastic(y)
Weird I didn't think so. Some folks said stark, I know that, especially without iDrive.
Cheap are the window and mirror switches in a 3rd gen LS430, crazy, like they came out of a Corolla LE with a 5-speed. And the wire that runs from the rain sensor into the headliner--that is a cop out. This was the flagship car! (but I love the rest of it)
Weird I didn't think so. Some folks said stark, I know that, especially without iDrive.
Cheap are the window and mirror switches in a 3rd gen LS430, crazy, like they came out of a Corolla LE with a 5-speed. And the wire that runs from the rain sensor into the headliner--that is a cop out. This was the flagship car! (but I love the rest of it)
Lots of cheap plastics I remember from my own experience. And agreed, without iDrive even worse if that is such a thing. Above and below the wood dash, around the shifter bezel, climate bezel, steering wheel bezel around the controls etc.. with the exception of the E60 M5 and its glorious V10, I preferred both E39 and F10 over the E60 in general.
Yes the window switches on the LS430 were those parts-bin Toyota ones. The NX, ES, and CT were also guilty of this rather than the nicer flush ones found on the IS, GS, GX, LX, LS etc.. (recent years)
Not in the years of IS300, GS300, and LS430 aka 2001-2005. I still remember my first ride in the IS300 and thought it was just as nice as a 3 series back then (but much cheaper).
Dude....you can't be serious. The IS300? As in the 1st generation IS? That had a laughably bad interior, I don't even think that's up for debate. The E46's interior was far better. Now the E36...that was horrendous.
Keep in mind that 10 year old interior competes with other 10 year old interiors. Ever sit in a 2008 528i? Now that's cheap and plastic(y)
The E60's interior was just fine, and it along with the E-class and A6 of the time had sportier feeling and higher-quality interiors than the GS.
But anyhow this is all beside the original point that the 4GS' interior is more class competitive. I suppose we will never really know why the 4GS never sold well. Maybe making a boring car inside and out is what the people wanted from Lexus.
The E60's interior was just fine, and it along with the E-class and A6 of the time had sportier and higher-quality interiors than the GS.
That photo you posted makes it look even better, the GS had a very dorky and boring design in comparison.
Design is subjective. We're or I was talking about the materials used. If you haven't sat in these cars its hard give your opinion based on a photo. The picture highlights the plastic areas I mentioned in my post that don't belong in a BMW or a Luxury car. Lexus and the GX460 interior is another example of plastics that shouldn't be in a luxury car.
Design is subjective. We're or I was talking about the materials used. If you haven't sat in these cars its hard give your opinion based on a photo. The picture highlights the plastic areas I mentioned in my post that don't belong in a BMW or a Luxury car. Lexus and the GX460 interior is another example of plastics that shouldn't be in a luxury car.
Forget just "sitting" in the E60, my folks owned that car. And I've had plenty of experience with that GS as well. I'm not saying it was a bad interior, but it certainly gave off a more geriatric vibe inside than the Bimmer.
Lots of cheap plastics I remember from my own experience. And agreed, without iDrive even worse if that is such a thing. Above and below the wood dash, around the shifter bezel, climate bezel, steering wheel bezel around the controls etc.. with the exception of the E60 M5 and its glorious V10, I preferred both E39 and F10 over the E60 in general.
Yes the window switches on the LS430 were those parts-bin Toyota ones. The NX, ES, and CT were also guilty of this rather than the nicer flush ones found on the IS, GS, GX, LX, LS etc.. (recent years)
haha I actually like this pic, my cousin's 530 wagon is very similar....I remember sitting in a 335 coupe in Nov 2006 (which is in no way better than the pic) in Bloomfield, NJ, while I was waiting for my 335i to be produced, and I said to myself, "I can't believe this is gonna be my car." I actually think it's high quality--just not flashy at all. And I don't have iDrive (did not want to pay for it)...
It's really hard to believe as 11 years have gone by. The halogen angel eyes were cool in late 2006. I specifically did not upgrade to LEDs when my right side went out--I want to preserve it the way it was as a pre-LCI...just the way I look at it...
Forget just "sitting" in the E60, my folks owned that car. And I've had plenty of experience with that GS as well. I'm not saying it was a bad interior, but it certainly gave off a more geriatric vibe inside than the Bimmer.
And yeah the GX is terrible inside and out lol.
Agreed the GS or rather any Lexus of 2006+ with L-Finesse had a more generic waterfall design rather than the horizontal layout of the BMW. I just don't find the Bimmer's materials (that gen) to be all that great for the premium you pay. E-Class also suffered from loads of tiny buttons shrouded in iffy plastic bezels of that era too.
With Lexus I find that when the mid cycle refresh comes, that's when they elevate the materials. Some might remember my tirade on 2013-2015 ES interiors before the 2016 refresh, burn it with fire hah!
Is 4GS leather synthetic?
I find that it doesn't wrinkle like 3GS leather, but 4GS leather picks up white scuff marks that is very difficult to remove.
Also, 4GS seemed to dump 3 GS's touch screen to copy off horizontal dash & touch remote sat nav of 2003-10 BMW 5 Series?
Is 4GS leather synthetic?
I find that it doesn't wrinkle like 3GS leather, but 4GS leather picks up white scuff marks that is very difficult to remove.
Also, 4GS seemed to dump 3 GS's touch screen to copy off horizontal dash & touch remote sat nav of 2003-10 BMW 5 Series?
On base and F-Sport models I want to say yes (though someone correct me if I'm wrong). On Luxury package, that's full leather. On the 2016 refresh they might have changed it up I don't remember. Some models are also now using leather in the middle part of the seat, and NuLuxe for the sides of the seat for better durability over time due to ingress and egress.
Close and maybe influenced, but Lexus started doing horizontal layers with recessed navigation in 2009 with the the MY10 RX
Dude....you can't be serious. The IS300? As in the 1st generation IS? That had a laughably bad interior, I don't even think that's up for debate. The E46's interior was far better. Now the E36...that was horrendous.
It's a matter of preference, so let's just leave it off of debate.
The E60's interior was just fine, and it along with the E-class and A6 of the time had sportier feeling and higher-quality interiors than the GS.
But anyhow this is all beside the original point that the 4GS' interior is more class competitive. I suppose we will never really know why the 4GS never sold well. Maybe making a boring car inside and out is what the people wanted from Lexus.
I suspect it was because from the 3GS's swoopy coupe-like shape, they went back to a tall boxy shape for the 4GS.
Furthermore, I also suspect the 4GS dash a very bland copy of the superseded 2003-10 5 Series' horizontal design with 7-way jog dial.
Hence, huge drop in 4GS sales, at a time when the 2009-16 E Class and 2010-17 5 Series achieving record sales of 69k+ & 56k+ units/year respectively.
Back in 2012 & 2013, inexperienced posters like SWES were not able to see this, so he used to say that the 2012/13 4GS market can no longer sell in volumes like the 3GS did back in 2005/06.
I used to say to him, let's see how 4GS sells long term, and here the 4GS sales figures are evident today, against a boom in E Class & 5 Series sales.
4GS actually has a much bigger trunk, and superior rear foot room to 3GS.
Unfortunately, measuring interior space with a measuring tape as Bitkahuna likes is very inaccurate, and even Spwolf agrees - hence I regard 4GS rear legroom as a controversial matter.
4GS feels like it has less rear legroom, but in fact 4GS may actually have more rear legroom, but 4GS's long rear seat base/squab makes the rear legroom feel less?
However, matters like this impacts on the potential buyer's decision in the show room.
Back in 2012, when 4GS was first released, the 3.5 V6 outperformed the pants off Mercedes older 3.5L 90 degree V6 and their newer Chrysler Pentastar based 3.5L 60 degree V6 as well.
I remember 2012 4GS just outperforming BMW's 2012 535i with 3.0 in-line six twin turbo; though only just - it is the norm for an all new 2012 February released 4GS to outperform a 2010 released 535i 3.0 TT.
Though GS has updated 4.5GS for a few extra HP, Benz and Beamer now have E400's and 540i's with performance equivalent to a 4.0 atmospheric engine; causing 0-60 specialist Rhambler to switch to Audi S7 etc.
Mainstream bread and butter mum & dad volume buyers would also pick up on the 4GS' firm ride.
In truth, like E Class and 5 Series, there should be two (2) separate suspension tunes for 4GS, with different coil spring and different shock absorber part numbers, rather than sharing the one (1) suspension tune across the range.
The current model refreshed 3.5IS seems to have two separate suspension tunes for the base and F Sport models from what I gathered from test drives; it was more than just the F Sport using low profile asymmetric tires.
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It all makes sense now why the XF and 3GS look so similar. I did some research, and found that Yasuhide Hosoda, 3GS designer, and Ian Callum, XF designer, attended the same university at Coventry UK. This is a prime example of where the student has out skilled his master. Hosoda took the main design principals of the XF, which is simple sophistication, and made it better. Hosoda differs from Ian being that Ian is a true designer, and Hosoda has skills in industrial design and art design. Those are two distinct and very different disciplinarians. In automotive manufacturing, the design is drawn and then passed down the engineer/CAD guy. The CAD dude is not a designer. So, what spawns from his cad "design" is based purely on engineering knowledge. That is how most of the taillights/headlights/parts on cars are made. This is also why some parts of a concept car are scrapped from production. Hosoda is the current chief creative director at Sony. SONY! That's like being in charge of design at APPLE! That's fkn skills right there! Think about the many mountains you would have to climb to get a head position at apple.
If you take a closer look at the 3gs's taillight, you can see that this is truly an "engineered/designed" piece. Other car's taillights mimic the drawing passed down from the designer. Even 100k mercedes goes through this same process where the bits of the taillights are slapped on and not really designed from the ground up. If you look at the 3gs taillights straight on from the back, they look like straight lines, but if you walk to the rear 3rd quarter view, you can see that the circles don't line up, and one is actually an 1 inch parallel to the other. This creates depth, a principal only a designer would know and implement. Now, thats just talking the taillights. The dude Hosoda was entirely in charge of the exterior and interior. No wonder why this car is GOAT. Really, its very rare nowadays for cars to get this level of skills applied to it. See, I told you this car was special. Im just over here SMH at the dudes saying 2gs is goat, lol. That thing is ancient. It's either too ricey or too retro. It does not exude class when needs be. The 3gs can do it all.
The halogens are there because it saves money. LED cost much more to implement and its not necessary for turn/reverse signals. A halogen bulb cost $2 and gets the job done effectively. An LED chip can cost almost 5-15x as much, and you cannot replace them once they start to dim or malfunction.
Mercedes has a high budget when it comes to their taillights/headlights/interior/exterior, but the money isn't being used to its full potential. Because, as you can see, the engineer puts forth what he knows best first and design last. Thus, you get a basic silhouette taillight. If you were to apply the two disciplinarians mentioned above, you would have a piece that is truly engineered yet truly designed, which would give you a much more high quality piece.
Same story with the LS The LS utilizes 3 light bars. As you can see, its slapped on. Its design is minimal even though it was allowed a higher budget. To make the taillights more effective, I would take the 3rd bar of light and run it across the entire trunk. This creates a silhouette that can be recognized by the eyes about 2x faster. Thus, it will create a higher sense of safety.
I rather invest my money into a car that I can live with for the next 100 years rather than wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars that will eventually lose my admiration. 100 years, that's how you KNOW a car was truly well designed.
02-09-18, 10:29 AM
