SC vs other Sports Cars
01-29-10, 02:09 PM
#1
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
SC vs other Sports Cars
I am getting a little tired reading posts about the lack of performance of the SC simply because Lexus makes cars that you can barely tell are running or moving because they are so smooth.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
01-29-10, 02:57 PM
#2
The SC 430 is not a sports car. It's a luxury cruiser, and fills that role with grace and elegance. Certainly one of the nicest interiors in an autotmobile.
To express your facts another way, like in terms of percentages, the difference between a SC430 and a true sports car is glaring.
1 second slower in 0-60 time is a 20 percent slower car.
Going anything other than a straight line, "performance" really drops off. It's a pig in corners. It's not stable at high speeds, relative to a sports car.
I think most the owners of SC430's are very comfortable with it's performance, and there was a poll a few months ago that it was almost 100% of the respondents classified it as a luxury cruiser, not a sports car, which is the correct categorization.
Another indicator is the lack of performance upgrades for the car. If you want to boost it, pull the motor and beef up the internals. Otherwise, spend about $3-5k, and get another 30 HP out of it, and thats all you can do, and it's still not a 5 second (0-60)car.
Please don't misinterpret. I think an 02 SC430 gives you more for $20k than any other car out there. But sports car, it's not.
To express your facts another way, like in terms of percentages, the difference between a SC430 and a true sports car is glaring.
1 second slower in 0-60 time is a 20 percent slower car.
Going anything other than a straight line, "performance" really drops off. It's a pig in corners. It's not stable at high speeds, relative to a sports car.I think most the owners of SC430's are very comfortable with it's performance, and there was a poll a few months ago that it was almost 100% of the respondents classified it as a luxury cruiser, not a sports car, which is the correct categorization.
Another indicator is the lack of performance upgrades for the car. If you want to boost it, pull the motor and beef up the internals. Otherwise, spend about $3-5k, and get another 30 HP out of it, and thats all you can do, and it's still not a 5 second (0-60)car.
Please don't misinterpret. I think an 02 SC430 gives you more for $20k than any other car out there. But sports car, it's not.
01-29-10, 04:34 PM
#4
I am getting a little tired reading posts about the lack of performance of the SC simply because Lexus makes cars that you can barely tell are running or moving because they are so smooth.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
Katy
01-29-10, 06:07 PM
#6
I am getting a little tired reading posts about the lack of performance of the SC simply because Lexus makes cars that you can barely tell are running or moving because they are so smooth.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
Here is a list of cars that hit 60 within about a half second of an 02 SC430. They are all new cars tested by R&T. Several of them are not as fast as the 02 SC430
1. Acura TL
2. Aston Martin Vantage V8
3. Audi A4, A5, A6
4. Dodge Challanger RT
5. Ford Mustang GT
6. Honda S2000
7. Jaguar XF Supercharged
8. Mazda RX8
9. Nissan 370Z
10. G37
If we look at cars that we only give up a second to, the list includes
1. E550 Coupe
2. Porsche Cayman
3. Shelby GT500KR
4. WRX STI
5. Maserati GT
6. M3 Sedan
Not too shabby at all for a nine year old car.
I love my Lexus, but it's not a car I would try to race anyone with. Course, neither are most of the cars you compared it with. I imagine it's been awhile since someone saw a Acura TL or an Aston Martin Vantage on a race track.
And you only talked about acceleration. Sports cars turn and brake too. The Lexus ain't bad, but not only do Porsche's and Corvettes not hide from them, neither do Miatas.
I'm not criticizing. I've got a real sports car. I wanted a sporty, luxury convertible cruiser and the Lexus is perfect for that. It's all in what you want a car for.
01-29-10, 07:43 PM
#7
Instructor
Sorry, but the definition of a "sports car" is a car that, in a pinch, you could race.
I love my Lexus, but it's not a car I would try to race anyone with. Course, neither are most of the cars you compared it with. I imagine it's been awhile since someone saw a Acura TL or an Aston Martin Vantage on a race track.
And you only talked about acceleration. Sports cars turn and brake too. The Lexus ain't bad, but not only do Porsche's and Corvettes not hide from them, neither do Miatas.
I'm not criticizing. I've got a real sports car. I wanted a sporty, luxury convertible cruiser and the Lexus is perfect for that. It's all in what you want a car for.
I love my Lexus, but it's not a car I would try to race anyone with. Course, neither are most of the cars you compared it with. I imagine it's been awhile since someone saw a Acura TL or an Aston Martin Vantage on a race track.
And you only talked about acceleration. Sports cars turn and brake too. The Lexus ain't bad, but not only do Porsche's and Corvettes not hide from them, neither do Miatas.
I'm not criticizing. I've got a real sports car. I wanted a sporty, luxury convertible cruiser and the Lexus is perfect for that. It's all in what you want a car for.
Last summer when I decided to switch to a sports car I moved to a Boxster. There is no comparison of the 2. Two radically different vehicles that do their jobs extremely well.
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01-29-10, 08:23 PM
#8
The forum is all about our beloved Lexus sc430 I embrace all opinions but I to am tired of hearing about the performance issues. The car goes faster then you can legally drive . It gets you there in luxury and style and I for one prefer to drive slow cause i really enjoy the ride and the top down. If it went faster that would mean less time to enjoy the ride.
I remember the good old days when rag tops used to billow out and you looked like you had a bubble on the roof with the top up. Top down you could not hear your crappy am radio and if you were lucky enough to have a FM radio the station choices were lousy.
Yeh gas was cheap and the cars cost max $ 5000.00 . But it still was great tooling down the highway top down girl friend not hugging the door. No war no bad economy . Geez look how far we have come and I still miss them good old days .
I remember the good old days when rag tops used to billow out and you looked like you had a bubble on the roof with the top up. Top down you could not hear your crappy am radio and if you were lucky enough to have a FM radio the station choices were lousy.
Yeh gas was cheap and the cars cost max $ 5000.00 . But it still was great tooling down the highway top down girl friend not hugging the door. No war no bad economy . Geez look how far we have come and I still miss them good old days .
01-29-10, 08:43 PM
#9
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
Okay something I am reluctant to admit, I am a lawyer. The common definition of sports car is...
* a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
* A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile, typically of two seats and two doors, with precise handling, brisk acceleration, sharp braking, and attractive aesthetics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car
I speak of 0-60 because that is generally how fast we accelerate in every day driving, and believe that we are unable to detect the difference of .5 seconds while driving. That is not to say that if racing the other car would not lead, but again, how often do you race. Most of us never do. Also know that most of the tests are conducted on manual transmissions, and the owners of those cars can not duplicate the speed of professional test drivers. What that means is your average SC430 driver would probably have better real world results than cars that are a second faster with test drivers not using an automatic. The only cars I have raced, is a friend with a 350Z and my wife in her LS430. The 350 manual was much slower, the LS was a touch faster. Most Boxsters post numbers around the same as the SC, (up to 2007). I doubt many on the street could keep up with you, depending how the driver shifts. The Boxster is also a very feminine car, where the SC appeals to men and women.
The SC430 is a sports car, so is a Miata, A Saturn Sky, an S2000, and a host of other cars that are not very fast. For those of you who would argue we have four seats, if you can post a picture of four adults in an SC430 I will gladly admit defeat.
The Porsche Panamera Turbo which can smoke almost anything on the road, including an Enzo, Viper, 911 Turbo, and SLR McLaren is a five seater sedan, and not a sports car.
Our Lexus fits the common definition of a sports car, and being upscale, smooth, and not among the fastest of cars available is not a determinant to call it anything else. So congratulations, you now have a sports car
* a small low car with a high-powered engine; usually seats two persons
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
* A sports car is a term used to describe a class of automobile, typically of two seats and two doors, with precise handling, brisk acceleration, sharp braking, and attractive aesthetics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_car
I speak of 0-60 because that is generally how fast we accelerate in every day driving, and believe that we are unable to detect the difference of .5 seconds while driving. That is not to say that if racing the other car would not lead, but again, how often do you race. Most of us never do. Also know that most of the tests are conducted on manual transmissions, and the owners of those cars can not duplicate the speed of professional test drivers. What that means is your average SC430 driver would probably have better real world results than cars that are a second faster with test drivers not using an automatic. The only cars I have raced, is a friend with a 350Z and my wife in her LS430. The 350 manual was much slower, the LS was a touch faster. Most Boxsters post numbers around the same as the SC, (up to 2007). I doubt many on the street could keep up with you, depending how the driver shifts. The Boxster is also a very feminine car, where the SC appeals to men and women.
The SC430 is a sports car, so is a Miata, A Saturn Sky, an S2000, and a host of other cars that are not very fast. For those of you who would argue we have four seats, if you can post a picture of four adults in an SC430 I will gladly admit defeat.
The Porsche Panamera Turbo which can smoke almost anything on the road, including an Enzo, Viper, 911 Turbo, and SLR McLaren is a five seater sedan, and not a sports car.
Our Lexus fits the common definition of a sports car, and being upscale, smooth, and not among the fastest of cars available is not a determinant to call it anything else. So congratulations, you now have a sports car
Last edited by KaiserSea1; 01-29-10 at 08:59 PM.
01-30-10, 04:27 AM
#10
All I'll say to that is that you and I have a very different definition of the term, "sports car".
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sports+car
An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sports+car
01-30-10, 08:15 AM
#11
[QUOTE=Jackalope;5184357]All I'll say to that is that you and I have a very different definition of the term, "sports car".
Using the 2nd definition Kais, the car is about 1/2 way to a sports car - precise handling - fail, sharp braking - fail. On the other hand, it has a wonderful ride - something that doesn't go hand in hand with cornering, so there's the compromise that had to be made to achieve the design goal.
Here' a simpler categorization you can use, since you like 0-60 times:
Under 4 seconds = supercar
4-5 seconds = sports car
5+ seconds = all other cars
depending on the source you use, the 430 is either a 5.8 or 6.2 car. If you use the 6.2 time, the list falls apart. You didn't state the baseline time you used for the comparison, nor its source. Here's what I use: http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html It's far from complete, but everything on the list is verified. It has an 02 SC430 and an Acura TL in a tie.........
Reading your list a second time, I also noticed you chose a lot of 6 bangers to pick on. Most should, and do, have far less torque thn a V8, and torque is what a 0-60 time is all about.
I would guess one of your fellow partners has a Vette, Porsche, Viper, etc. Trade test drives with him/her, and the difference will be clear.
You'll say "Man, this thing hauls ***", and they'll say, "Man, this rides great"....and you're both right
Using the 2nd definition Kais, the car is about 1/2 way to a sports car - precise handling - fail, sharp braking - fail. On the other hand, it has a wonderful ride - something that doesn't go hand in hand with cornering, so there's the compromise that had to be made to achieve the design goal.
Here' a simpler categorization you can use, since you like 0-60 times:
Under 4 seconds = supercar
4-5 seconds = sports car
5+ seconds = all other cars
depending on the source you use, the 430 is either a 5.8 or 6.2 car. If you use the 6.2 time, the list falls apart. You didn't state the baseline time you used for the comparison, nor its source. Here's what I use: http://www.albeedigital.com/supercou...0-60times.html It's far from complete, but everything on the list is verified. It has an 02 SC430 and an Acura TL in a tie.........
Reading your list a second time, I also noticed you chose a lot of 6 bangers to pick on. Most should, and do, have far less torque thn a V8, and torque is what a 0-60 time is all about.
I would guess one of your fellow partners has a Vette, Porsche, Viper, etc. Trade test drives with him/her, and the difference will be clear.
You'll say "Man, this thing hauls ***", and they'll say, "Man, this rides great"....and you're both right
Last edited by PHXSC; 01-30-10 at 08:23 AM.
01-30-10, 08:53 AM
#13
Great discussions here, and there are obvious biases with generations, if you currently actually own a SC (I know PHX and EJC ditched theirs) and what you are used to.
I've owned three of the fastest cars at their time of production: The Rx-7 Twin Turbo the 300ZX Twin Turbo and the Toyota Supra Twin Turbo. The Supra wasn't near as nice as the 300Z's interior and the rx-7 had by far better technology and sound (bose wavelength system) compared to the supra. They all were around 300hp, the RX was about 260 stock I believe but lighter and had a 9k redline that peaked at torque. I thought those cars were the bomb, but later in 2004 owned a Honda S2000 with only 240 hp and much lighter, shorter throws and felt like THIS was the ultimate "sports" car. One year later I obtained a much heavier but fast 300hp G35s coupe which was just as sporty, but different sporty as the S2000. All those five cars I just mentioned in my opinion were sporty, but at different degrees of sportiness.
I totally agree that there are different levels of sports cars. I loved Kaiser's 0-60 comparo, but do agree that there are different definitions of "sportiness".
Hell, the Isuzu Amigo and Honda Element were "sporty", but who would want those compared to a Range Rover Supercharged, which could be sporty and fast and classy?
I think this is all up to interpretation and needs. The SC430 is definitely a sports car by definition and class, but in day to day comparos, it could be more clearly defined as a luxury sport convertible cruiser. Compared to a chrysler lebaron convertible it might be MUCH sportier, but compard to a boxster s convertible or viper r/t convertible not as sporty. We've talked exhaustively about the different direct, closest comparisions of the SC...the CLK, the 645/650, the XK and others and all agree that we liked the SC better than all those in the class. Now comparing the SC to something else, is apples and pineapples comparison!
I like the 0-60 comparisons because it does show that although the SC is not as sporty in feel as others, it hangs with the "sportiest" of sports cars too!
Honestly, whether I was punching my rx7/supra/300z/s2000/g35 or my SC, they ALL were sporty and fun and fast as hell to me! My first "sports" car was a 1984 celica supra gts with like 130hp!
I've owned three of the fastest cars at their time of production: The Rx-7 Twin Turbo the 300ZX Twin Turbo and the Toyota Supra Twin Turbo. The Supra wasn't near as nice as the 300Z's interior and the rx-7 had by far better technology and sound (bose wavelength system) compared to the supra. They all were around 300hp, the RX was about 260 stock I believe but lighter and had a 9k redline that peaked at torque. I thought those cars were the bomb, but later in 2004 owned a Honda S2000 with only 240 hp and much lighter, shorter throws and felt like THIS was the ultimate "sports" car. One year later I obtained a much heavier but fast 300hp G35s coupe which was just as sporty, but different sporty as the S2000. All those five cars I just mentioned in my opinion were sporty, but at different degrees of sportiness.
I totally agree that there are different levels of sports cars. I loved Kaiser's 0-60 comparo, but do agree that there are different definitions of "sportiness".
Hell, the Isuzu Amigo and Honda Element were "sporty", but who would want those compared to a Range Rover Supercharged, which could be sporty and fast and classy?
I think this is all up to interpretation and needs. The SC430 is definitely a sports car by definition and class, but in day to day comparos, it could be more clearly defined as a luxury sport convertible cruiser. Compared to a chrysler lebaron convertible it might be MUCH sportier, but compard to a boxster s convertible or viper r/t convertible not as sporty. We've talked exhaustively about the different direct, closest comparisions of the SC...the CLK, the 645/650, the XK and others and all agree that we liked the SC better than all those in the class. Now comparing the SC to something else, is apples and pineapples comparison!
I like the 0-60 comparisons because it does show that although the SC is not as sporty in feel as others, it hangs with the "sportiest" of sports cars too!
Honestly, whether I was punching my rx7/supra/300z/s2000/g35 or my SC, they ALL were sporty and fun and fast as hell to me! My first "sports" car was a 1984 celica supra gts with like 130hp!
01-30-10, 10:29 PM
#14
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
At the ripe old age of 41 it takes me 10 minutes to get out of bed in the morning, 20 minutes to pick a movie, an hour and a half to pick which auto wax to buy, and I have been trying to pick new rims for three months. 5.8 seconds from standstill to 60, thats the fastest part of my day.
BTW Before buying my SC I test drove a RUF Porsche, the fastest thing I have ever driven. It was too fast for me, and drove like a go cart. I don't have the skills to handle a car that hits 60 in the 3s.
Last edited by KaiserSea1; 01-30-10 at 10:37 PM.
01-31-10, 01:19 AM
#15
I think the key here that needs to be mentioned is that while the SC430 is not a sports car, it is absolutely a sporty car. And while that distinction may not seem like much, it's actually a big thing.
Think about cars like the defunct Buick Reatta, the original Ford Thunderbird and it's more modern reincarnation. None of those cars were successful in the marketplace. Why?
Because they were too sporty to be practical and too practical to be sporty. They were nothing but two seat passenger cars with no sporting pretensions at all.
The SC430 is a luxury coupe that can be driven briskly and enjoyably. You can hustle down the road very quickly in an SC430 and do so much faster than the average car. It's fun to drive an SC430. It may not be able to compete with pure sports cars, but for the majority of driving, it's quiet, comfortable and stylish and when you do want to stick your foot in it, it will go. That's why I love mine.
Think about cars like the defunct Buick Reatta, the original Ford Thunderbird and it's more modern reincarnation. None of those cars were successful in the marketplace. Why?
Because they were too sporty to be practical and too practical to be sporty. They were nothing but two seat passenger cars with no sporting pretensions at all.
The SC430 is a luxury coupe that can be driven briskly and enjoyably. You can hustle down the road very quickly in an SC430 and do so much faster than the average car. It's fun to drive an SC430. It may not be able to compete with pure sports cars, but for the majority of driving, it's quiet, comfortable and stylish and when you do want to stick your foot in it, it will go. That's why I love mine.