Switch from run flats question
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,878
Likes: 396
From: Ohio
He's Right Again
Right on both points. I would never have the car "towed," and in fact most service stations use the flat bed.
And as for the response of the "specialist," he does not know what he is talking about. If by "design" he means generally no spare tire, we've covered that here at length, and there is a place for a spare anyway. If he means the suspension is tweaked for low profile hard sidewall tires, then so much the better when conventional tires are used. If he means the car has tire pressure sensors (which are almost essential with runflats), then it's nice to have those for conventional tires also.
Any car can run on runflats if the tire size is right and the wheels are right.
I can think of no "design" consideration that argues against using conventional tires. Also, many Lexus service managers (like mine) highly recommend SC owners switch to conventional tires after the tread on the runflats is getting low. I was reluctant, but my service manager was very convincing, and I'm glad he was.
Many many owners here have switched and have used conventional tires for many years and many miles, and no problems.
It's always safe to tell an owner to stick with original equipment -- it takes some knowledge and experience to know when a substitute is an improvement (or even workable). This guy is simply inexperienced or not knowlegdable about the SC, which may be due to the fact that the SC is not a common car, or it may be that he's just plain lazy or stupid or, even worse, both.
Sometimes you can fix lazy, but stupid is forever.
And as for the response of the "specialist," he does not know what he is talking about. If by "design" he means generally no spare tire, we've covered that here at length, and there is a place for a spare anyway. If he means the suspension is tweaked for low profile hard sidewall tires, then so much the better when conventional tires are used. If he means the car has tire pressure sensors (which are almost essential with runflats), then it's nice to have those for conventional tires also.
Any car can run on runflats if the tire size is right and the wheels are right.
I can think of no "design" consideration that argues against using conventional tires. Also, many Lexus service managers (like mine) highly recommend SC owners switch to conventional tires after the tread on the runflats is getting low. I was reluctant, but my service manager was very convincing, and I'm glad he was.
Many many owners here have switched and have used conventional tires for many years and many miles, and no problems.
It's always safe to tell an owner to stick with original equipment -- it takes some knowledge and experience to know when a substitute is an improvement (or even workable). This guy is simply inexperienced or not knowlegdable about the SC, which may be due to the fact that the SC is not a common car, or it may be that he's just plain lazy or stupid or, even worse, both.
Sometimes you can fix lazy, but stupid is forever.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: not us
Originally Posted by tfischer
Right on both points. I would never have the car "towed," and in fact most service stations use the flat bed.
And as for the response of the "specialist," he does not know what he is talking about. If by "design" he means generally no spare tire, we've covered that here at length, and there is a place for a spare anyway. If he means the suspension is tweaked for low profile hard sidewall tires, then so much the better when conventional tires are used. If he means the car has tire pressure sensors (which are almost essential with runflats), then it's nice to have those for conventional tires also.
Any car can run on runflats if the tire size is right and the wheels are right.
I can think of no "design" consideration that argues against using conventional tires. Also, many Lexus service managers (like mine) highly recommend SC owners switch to conventional tires after the tread on the runflats is getting low. I was reluctant, but my service manager was very convincing, and I'm glad he was.
Many many owners here have switched and have used conventional tires for many years and many miles, and no problems.
It's always safe to tell an owner to stick with original equipment -- it takes some knowledge and experience to know when a substitute is an improvement (or even workable). This guy is simply inexperienced or not knowlegdable about the SC, which may be due to the fact that the SC is not a common car, or it may be that he's just plain lazy or stupid or, even worse, both.
Sometimes you can fix lazy, but stupid is forever.
And as for the response of the "specialist," he does not know what he is talking about. If by "design" he means generally no spare tire, we've covered that here at length, and there is a place for a spare anyway. If he means the suspension is tweaked for low profile hard sidewall tires, then so much the better when conventional tires are used. If he means the car has tire pressure sensors (which are almost essential with runflats), then it's nice to have those for conventional tires also.
Any car can run on runflats if the tire size is right and the wheels are right.
I can think of no "design" consideration that argues against using conventional tires. Also, many Lexus service managers (like mine) highly recommend SC owners switch to conventional tires after the tread on the runflats is getting low. I was reluctant, but my service manager was very convincing, and I'm glad he was.
Many many owners here have switched and have used conventional tires for many years and many miles, and no problems.
It's always safe to tell an owner to stick with original equipment -- it takes some knowledge and experience to know when a substitute is an improvement (or even workable). This guy is simply inexperienced or not knowlegdable about the SC, which may be due to the fact that the SC is not a common car, or it may be that he's just plain lazy or stupid or, even worse, both.
Sometimes you can fix lazy, but stupid is forever.
Originally Posted by alwyn
Well I thank you for your reply,and I will bear your comments in mind as to using conventional tires in future.As to your remarks about the competance of the "Specialist" I mentioned,he is a fully trained Michelin operator of 15 years standing,so he must,like you,know something about tires.
we do non-runflats on the SC's (and vettes and other runflat equipped cars) all the time, but the owner has to know what they are getting themselves into...
for instance, had an older gentleman drop by the other day with a "my tire light is on" upon inspection, the lr tire had 0 pressure... he had driven the car to/from home, and the tire was repairable, thus saving him towing / spare tire / a lot of hassle, but it's not always that way...
and one other thing... the wheels on SC430's SUCK.... whose idea was it to require 10 allen head screws to be removed just to balance a tire...
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 3
From: New York
Another turn at flogging this deceased horse ...
"... designed the car for this type of tire." is not the same as recommending this type of tire for the car. The specialist may know a lot about tires, but does he know much about the design of the SC430? I admit I have no expertise in either of these areas, but I'd guess that Lexus outfitted the car with runflats because there's not much room in the trunk with a spare in there. I repeat, the runflats were an option (and I think they are on the new models).
Nowhere in the manual (at least the 2002 manual) does it warn that runflats must be used. In fact, there are two parts in the section discussing actions to take if the low pressure warning light goes on; one if you have runflats, the other if you don't. Furthermore, in the section about tire information, it states "This vehicle can be equipped with either run-flat tires (RFT or EMT) or standard tires."
The manual does warn that tires of a specified size must be used and the size, manufacturer, brand and tread pattern for all 4 tires must be the same in order for the VSC system to function correctly. There's nothing in the manual warning that runflats must be used. A tire dealer should simply explain to the buyer the benefits and disadvantages of both run-flats and standard tires and suggest he go home and RTFB before he makes a decision.
"... designed the car for this type of tire." is not the same as recommending this type of tire for the car. The specialist may know a lot about tires, but does he know much about the design of the SC430? I admit I have no expertise in either of these areas, but I'd guess that Lexus outfitted the car with runflats because there's not much room in the trunk with a spare in there. I repeat, the runflats were an option (and I think they are on the new models).
Nowhere in the manual (at least the 2002 manual) does it warn that runflats must be used. In fact, there are two parts in the section discussing actions to take if the low pressure warning light goes on; one if you have runflats, the other if you don't. Furthermore, in the section about tire information, it states "This vehicle can be equipped with either run-flat tires (RFT or EMT) or standard tires."
The manual does warn that tires of a specified size must be used and the size, manufacturer, brand and tread pattern for all 4 tires must be the same in order for the VSC system to function correctly. There's nothing in the manual warning that runflats must be used. A tire dealer should simply explain to the buyer the benefits and disadvantages of both run-flats and standard tires and suggest he go home and RTFB before he makes a decision.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,477
Likes: 66
From: El Paso, TX
Well, I need to finish driving this point home... if it hasn't been driven already. And this is coming from an owner who STILL has the runflats.
As it was already said, runflats were an OPTION on this car. And yes, a tire specialist who doesn't seem to know anything about our car is somebody I wouldn't even bother to listen to.
Now to my main point. I've owned 4 new V-8 Lexus vehicles, so I can be considered a Lexus 'specialist' if you will. And this car rides like a darn dump truck with the runflats; unlike ALL other Lexus I've owned and driven (basically the entire line), so I can't believe for a second this car was designed to use runflats. My guess is late in the car's development (after suspension was sorted out with regular tires), Lexus decided, for marketing reasons (no trunk space with a spare), to add runflats as an option. Otherwise, nobody would buy the car with no space for even golf clubs. Lexus vehicles are legendary for their cushy rides, and when a Corvette rides better than the SC, it's pretty obvious the car wasn't designed with runflats in mind.
And finally, as discussed on another thread, runflats don't really offer any convenience over a normal tire. On the contrary; very few places can deal with mounting/dismounting a runflat, and virtually nobody carries them in stock. Plus they're supposed to be ALWAYS replaced, no matter how long you ride them deflated. They're hardly an advantage... BUT they will get you home if you're within a reasonable distance. This is their main selling point IMHO.
I don't know if I'll switch to conventional tires or not when the time comes, but I'm not blind at the reality this car would be immensely more enjoyable with normal tires, which is the issue being discussed here. The options are giving up the trunk for a better ride, or risking getting stranded for a flat with no spare and normal tires. I don't like neither alternative. Good day folks.
As it was already said, runflats were an OPTION on this car. And yes, a tire specialist who doesn't seem to know anything about our car is somebody I wouldn't even bother to listen to.
Now to my main point. I've owned 4 new V-8 Lexus vehicles, so I can be considered a Lexus 'specialist' if you will. And this car rides like a darn dump truck with the runflats; unlike ALL other Lexus I've owned and driven (basically the entire line), so I can't believe for a second this car was designed to use runflats. My guess is late in the car's development (after suspension was sorted out with regular tires), Lexus decided, for marketing reasons (no trunk space with a spare), to add runflats as an option. Otherwise, nobody would buy the car with no space for even golf clubs. Lexus vehicles are legendary for their cushy rides, and when a Corvette rides better than the SC, it's pretty obvious the car wasn't designed with runflats in mind.
And finally, as discussed on another thread, runflats don't really offer any convenience over a normal tire. On the contrary; very few places can deal with mounting/dismounting a runflat, and virtually nobody carries them in stock. Plus they're supposed to be ALWAYS replaced, no matter how long you ride them deflated. They're hardly an advantage... BUT they will get you home if you're within a reasonable distance. This is their main selling point IMHO.
I don't know if I'll switch to conventional tires or not when the time comes, but I'm not blind at the reality this car would be immensely more enjoyable with normal tires, which is the issue being discussed here. The options are giving up the trunk for a better ride, or risking getting stranded for a flat with no spare and normal tires. I don't like neither alternative. Good day folks.
Originally Posted by ELP_JC
On the contrary; very few places can deal with mounting/dismounting a runflat, and virtually nobody carries them in stock. Plus they're supposed to be ALWAYS replaced, no matter how long you ride them deflated. They're hardly an advantage... BUT they will get you home if you're within a reasonable distance. This is their main selling point IMHO.
I don't know if I'll switch to conventional tires or not when the time comes, but I'm not blind at the reality this car would be immensely more enjoyable with normal tires, which is the issue being discussed here. The options are giving up the trunk for a better ride, or risking getting stranded for a flat with no spare and normal tires. I don't like neither alternative. Good day folks.
I don't know if I'll switch to conventional tires or not when the time comes, but I'm not blind at the reality this car would be immensely more enjoyable with normal tires, which is the issue being discussed here. The options are giving up the trunk for a better ride, or risking getting stranded for a flat with no spare and normal tires. I don't like neither alternative. Good day folks.
On the BMW's they actually state DO NOT REPAIR directly on the sidewall, and to my knowledge, every new BMW comes with them (we ust replaced a 2000 mile old tire on an 06 330 at the cost of $280) because it had a puncture in it that would normally be repairable...
I honestly think you may start seeing tires not allowed to be repaired at all due to lawsuits and product liability...
Personally, I wouldn't run runflats either no matter what car I owned, but, for a majority of the population, they are convenient... It's a crapshoot which will be better...
If it makes you feel any better, RX-8's don't even come with a runflat option, nor a spare tire... same with Pontiac Solstice / Sky's, nor Z-06 Vette's or many M3's...
I just couldn't imagine being stuck on the side of the road without a spare on the highway somewhere... Hell, I don't run with my spare in town, because I'm a $50 tow away from salvation worst case scenario, but get a couple hundred miles from a major city, and yikes...
Racer
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,477
Likes: 66
From: El Paso, TX
Originally Posted by mitsuguy
Actually, the whole repair or not thing depends on tire manufacturer... I don't recall all of them right now, but, Goodyear / Dunlop / Michelin / Bridgestone are all repairable using the same standards as a normal tire, Pirelli / Yokohama / Bridgestones that are OE On BMW's are not repairable per the manufacturer... There is more info, but I'm not at work to look it up.
I was just thinking about my motorcycle tours, and I obviously don't carry a spare, so maybe the answer to the spare is to carry an inflation kit, and I'd have the same chances of repairing the tire myself than on my motorcycles; I think it's a reasonable risk. So yeah, I'll get normal tires after the runflats.
CL Community Team
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,878
Likes: 396
From: Ohio
I agree with the above conclusion: "I just couldn't imagine being stuck on the side of the road without a spare on the highway somewhere... Hell, I don't run with my spare in town, because I'm a $50 tow away from salvation worst case scenario, but get a couple hundred miles from a major city, and yikes..."
My solution was to get standard tires and run with no spare in town. Then I paid about $200 for the spare wheel and tire (only -- not the "kit" which costs $700 or 800 or more). When you take out the floor cover in the trunk, the spare fits tightly into the concave space with no apparent need for clamps or other devices to secure it in place. I then cut a piece of thin plywood to the same shape as the floor cover, then cut out the area where the tire goes through it. Spray adhesive and some left-over carpet give it a finished look. (This part from Lexus is $200.00; I made a reasonable substitute for maybe $10.00.) There is already a jack and tools in the trunk, so for a road trip I am all set. (I don't have the swell Lexus cover for the tire itself, but I'm working on that. I think a nice beach towel would do the trick nicely.)
Plus, you still have space inside the wheel for your jumper cables and any other stuff you might want to carry for an emergency, including an inflator.
Conversion from no spare to spare takes about 2 minutes, and I have some peace of mind on the road should I get a flat. And I have the better riding, better handling tires all the time.
Works for me.
My solution was to get standard tires and run with no spare in town. Then I paid about $200 for the spare wheel and tire (only -- not the "kit" which costs $700 or 800 or more). When you take out the floor cover in the trunk, the spare fits tightly into the concave space with no apparent need for clamps or other devices to secure it in place. I then cut a piece of thin plywood to the same shape as the floor cover, then cut out the area where the tire goes through it. Spray adhesive and some left-over carpet give it a finished look. (This part from Lexus is $200.00; I made a reasonable substitute for maybe $10.00.) There is already a jack and tools in the trunk, so for a road trip I am all set. (I don't have the swell Lexus cover for the tire itself, but I'm working on that. I think a nice beach towel would do the trick nicely.)
Plus, you still have space inside the wheel for your jumper cables and any other stuff you might want to carry for an emergency, including an inflator.
Conversion from no spare to spare takes about 2 minutes, and I have some peace of mind on the road should I get a flat. And I have the better riding, better handling tires all the time.
Works for me.
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Originally Posted by ELP_JC
The reason behind replacement has nothing to do with the puncture itself; rolling without air on such a heavy car damages the sidewalls permanently. And it makes sense to me.
it's the whole run it while it was entirely flat for a long time that just kills me to try and explain to customers why we can't repair their tire...
I am FREE from RFT's!!!!
I couldn't agree more with several of you stating the comparison is night and day. I have a 2002 with 23xxx miles on it with original RFT's and I just took them off and put on new 19" wheels and tires and I would say honestly that the ride improvement is between 200-300%. You cannot get any more "night and day" than that! The dump truck analogy was perfect! I always felt like I was driving on 10 series sidewalls, not 40. The 35 and 30 series I have now on with my 19"s are so much smoother, it felt like I was driving on 60 series in my grandma's lincoln compared to RFT.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Texas
We replaced the Run Flats with Michelin since I figured we'd need new tires anyway before we turned this one in... now we can run on decent, quiet, good riding tires and when we get ready to dump the car, put the "brand new" run flats back on it.
Made no sense to put 20,000+ miles on the run flats (if they'd last that long) and then replace with decent tires. Why not get a good ride, like NOW!
Yes, we bought the spare... it fits fine in the trunk and for trips, the suitcase goes in the "back seat". (not to worry, here in Texas, if it is a LONG trip, we take an airplane, not a car since we are a days drive from the nearest state border).
Made no sense to put 20,000+ miles on the run flats (if they'd last that long) and then replace with decent tires. Why not get a good ride, like NOW!
Yes, we bought the spare... it fits fine in the trunk and for trips, the suitcase goes in the "back seat". (not to worry, here in Texas, if it is a LONG trip, we take an airplane, not a car since we are a days drive from the nearest state border).
Originally Posted by scubamom
Yes, we bought the spare... it fits fine in the trunk and for trips, the suitcase goes in the "back seat". (not to worry, here in Texas, if it is a LONG trip, we take an airplane, not a car since we are a days drive from the nearest state border).
MultiTasking Mom
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,662
Likes: 2
From: California
Originally Posted by scubamom
We replaced the Run Flats with Michelin since I figured we'd need new tires anyway before we turned this one in... now we can run on decent, quiet, good riding tires and when we get ready to dump the car, put the "brand new" run flats back on it.
Made no sense to put 20,000+ miles on the run flats (if they'd last that long) and then replace with decent tires. Why not get a good ride, like NOW!
Yes, we bought the spare... it fits fine in the trunk and for trips, the suitcase goes in the "back seat". (not to worry, here in Texas, if it is a LONG trip, we take an airplane, not a car since we are a days drive from the nearest state border).
Made no sense to put 20,000+ miles on the run flats (if they'd last that long) and then replace with decent tires. Why not get a good ride, like NOW!
Yes, we bought the spare... it fits fine in the trunk and for trips, the suitcase goes in the "back seat". (not to worry, here in Texas, if it is a LONG trip, we take an airplane, not a car since we are a days drive from the nearest state border).
scubamom, we did the exact same thing! the RFs are stored now and go back with the car when it goes back to LFS or a new ownerincidentally, ours is on sale in the Classifieds if anyone has friends/family interested - sorry for the shameless plug
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=231837
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 3
From: New York
Rethinking the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
I've been running the Eagles for about 9500 miles and three years. They're great on dry and wet roads but they've been gradually becoming more and more noisy. During a short trip in town recently, my brother asked me if I had snow tires on!
Yesterday was the last straw. I had to make a 320-mile round trip to the dealer and the road noise drove me close to batty while I had the top and the windows up. Of course with the top down at 75 miles an hour, I can't even hear myself sneeze let alone hear the tires.
I have to ditch them, maybe for something ... gasp ... French.
Yesterday was the last straw. I had to make a 320-mile round trip to the dealer and the road noise drove me close to batty while I had the top and the windows up. Of course with the top down at 75 miles an hour, I can't even hear myself sneeze let alone hear the tires.
I have to ditch them, maybe for something ... gasp ... French.