why NO SC300 w/ 2JZ?
05-21-05, 01:04 PM
#1
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why NO SC300 w/ 2JZ?
why new model dont come out w/ SC300 w/ 2JZ?
it would be awesome to have a 3 liter 2JZ like IS and GS.
how come toyota dont come out w/ them?
it would be awesome to have a 3 liter 2JZ like IS and GS.
how come toyota dont come out w/ them?
05-21-05, 01:49 PM
#2
THere was a premium invested so that this car could be born of "pure luxury" so selling a 300 version would:
1. Flood the Market w/ SCs
2. Have a lot of 430 buyers go to the 300 to save a few bucks (about $10k, appearantly)
At least, that's my take on it
1. Flood the Market w/ SCs
2. Have a lot of 430 buyers go to the 300 to save a few bucks (about $10k, appearantly)
At least, that's my take on it
05-21-05, 07:33 PM
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yeah but 2jz is a wide spread block that enthusiast love, why not provide them?
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
05-21-05, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by profuse007
yeah but 2jz is a wide spread block that enthusiast love, why not provide them?
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
IMO the NA 2JZ option just isn't powerful enough for what most buyers in this segment expect, especially with fairly heavy cars (3840 for SC430 and 3990 for the LS430) and they need the on-tap hp and torque of the v8 to compete. Yes you can build it and turbo the 2jz, but 99% of the buyers of these cars never would remotely consider doing that.
05-21-05, 11:20 PM
#5
actually when the car was released in 01, they did have plan to get the sc300 in one or two yrs. but the sc430 has been selling so well that they do not see any reason to get the sc300
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
05-26-05, 11:36 AM
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LS always had V8 w/ the 1UZ, so i dotn know where thats goin.
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
Originally Posted by DaveGS4
Not when establishing 'flagship' models. Same deal on the LS430, there is no I6 option there. None of the new models introduced after 1999 have had the 2JZ as an option (new IS and GS dropped it in favor of the v6). Don't get me wrong it's a great motor with huge potential, but it is older technology, doesn't get very good fuel economy, etc.
IMO the NA 2JZ option just isn't powerful enough for what most buyers in this segment expect, especially with fairly heavy cars (3840 for SC430 and 3990 for the LS430) and they need the on-tap hp and torque of the v8 to compete. Yes you can build it and turbo the 2jz, but 99% of the buyers of these cars never would remotely consider doing that.
IMO the NA 2JZ option just isn't powerful enough for what most buyers in this segment expect, especially with fairly heavy cars (3840 for SC430 and 3990 for the LS430) and they need the on-tap hp and torque of the v8 to compete. Yes you can build it and turbo the 2jz, but 99% of the buyers of these cars never would remotely consider doing that.
05-26-05, 11:38 AM
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i think theyre aiming for a highend luxury sport car, for older generations
Originally Posted by rominl
actually when the car was released in 01, they did have plan to get the sc300 in one or two yrs. but the sc430 has been selling so well that they do not see any reason to get the sc300
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
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05-26-05, 01:27 PM
#8
Originally Posted by profuse007
yeah but 2jz is a wide spread block that enthusiast love, why not provide them?
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
iono about ur theory about flood the market, isnt thats any maker's main goal... is to make the most sales as much as possible????
Its a LUXURY car... its a premium nameplateand the three FIRSTS of a luxury car are:
1) V8 engine
2) Rear-Wheel Drive
3) Exclusivity
They arent out to make big money with this car; thats reserved for the ES, IS, and RX. Its a premium flagship luxury car with an image that comes with it. Its not supposed to be affordable or easy to get... its supposed to be exclusive... if theres a lot on the road, its not an exclusive car anymore; and the "IT-car" buyers will buy something else that is (like your various Mercedes or BMW models)
05-26-05, 01:34 PM
#9
Originally Posted by profuse007
LS always had V8 w/ the 1UZ, so i dotn know where thats goin.
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
Dont preach to any of us about the true power of those blocks; we are well aware of it; probably a lot more so than you are. Its true power is NOT in a luxury car tho. You will never EVER have the low-end torque and quick response that the properly tuned UZ-series engine provides these cars. Sure the 2jz works GREAT in a 3300-3400lb sports coupe, but not in a 4000lb luxury sedan or convertible coupe where the owner floors it and wants it to accelerate quickly when he wants it instead of waiting on a turbo to respond. (dont preach to me about sequential turbos either; they still arent as responsive as the newer interations of the UZ-series V8)
The 2jz is dead according to Toyota. No cars out now use it at all. They may be able to slap new stuff on it; but its still not as efficient as the new V6s, it still doesnt make as much torque (without a turbo of course) and doesnt make as much horsepower (again without the turbo). The new V6s are ULEV II which is a great environmental rating, and the one going in the IS350 will make OVER 300hp and still make great gas mileage due to VVTL-i, direct injection, and a whole slew of other new stuff that the 2jz never had and never will have.
Not saying the new V6s are better tuner motors than the 2jz (who knows tho, they MIGHT be, no one has played with them yet). I AM saying, however, that the new V6 is a better motor than the 2jz where it counts in the car market.
05-26-05, 04:44 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Bean
Yes, but his point is that the LS is a flagship sedan and only offers the V8. There are no NEW vehicles introduced after 1999 that carry the 2jz. The new IS doesnt, the new GS doesnt.
Dont preach to any of us about the true power of those blocks; we are well aware of it; probably a lot more so than you are. Its true power is NOT in a luxury car tho. You will never EVER have the low-end torque and quick response that the properly tuned UZ-series engine provides these cars. Sure the 2jz works GREAT in a 3300-3400lb sports coupe, but not in a 4000lb luxury sedan or convertible coupe where the owner floors it and wants it to accelerate quickly when he wants it instead of waiting on a turbo to respond. (dont preach to me about sequential turbos either; they still arent as responsive as the newer interations of the UZ-series V8)
The 2jz is dead according to Toyota. No cars out now use it at all. They may be able to slap new stuff on it; but its still not as efficient as the new V6s, it still doesnt make as much torque (without a turbo of course) and doesnt make as much horsepower (again without the turbo). The new V6s are ULEV II which is a great environmental rating, and the one going in the IS350 will make OVER 300hp and still make great gas mileage due to VVTL-i, direct injection, and a whole slew of other new stuff that the 2jz never had and never will have.
Not saying the new V6s are better tuner motors than the 2jz (who knows tho, they MIGHT be, no one has played with them yet). I AM saying, however, that the new V6 is a better motor than the 2jz where it counts in the car market.
Dont preach to any of us about the true power of those blocks; we are well aware of it; probably a lot more so than you are. Its true power is NOT in a luxury car tho. You will never EVER have the low-end torque and quick response that the properly tuned UZ-series engine provides these cars. Sure the 2jz works GREAT in a 3300-3400lb sports coupe, but not in a 4000lb luxury sedan or convertible coupe where the owner floors it and wants it to accelerate quickly when he wants it instead of waiting on a turbo to respond. (dont preach to me about sequential turbos either; they still arent as responsive as the newer interations of the UZ-series V8)
The 2jz is dead according to Toyota. No cars out now use it at all. They may be able to slap new stuff on it; but its still not as efficient as the new V6s, it still doesnt make as much torque (without a turbo of course) and doesnt make as much horsepower (again without the turbo). The new V6s are ULEV II which is a great environmental rating, and the one going in the IS350 will make OVER 300hp and still make great gas mileage due to VVTL-i, direct injection, and a whole slew of other new stuff that the 2jz never had and never will have.
Not saying the new V6s are better tuner motors than the 2jz (who knows tho, they MIGHT be, no one has played with them yet). I AM saying, however, that the new V6 is a better motor than the 2jz where it counts in the car market.
05-26-05, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rominl
actually when the car was released in 01, they did have plan to get the sc300 in one or two yrs. but the sc430 has been selling so well that they do not see any reason to get the sc300
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
plus, the car is no longer a sport coupe anymore, it's a luxury cruiser. so to me it makes perfect sense to keep the v8
05-26-05, 07:04 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Inabj2
They should of differianted the model line up and make the sc430 something other then a SC... They killed the SC coupe imo with the current sc430. (The SC430 is a nice car and all but its not even a coupe!)
They pretty much sell all the SC430s they build, the SC430 is quieter, more luxurious, has many more options (mark levinson anyone?), and is a hardtop convertible... it completely outdoes its predecessors; so I say it was pretty much a hit... I'm sure Toyota knows plenty well what they are doing
Besides, when the SC originally came out, Toyota was trying to get the Lexus name on everyone's minds... by selling the cars under value too. Now they've gotten a nice image and they've changed direction... they have completely gone over to the luxury market.
It IS sad that there is nothing like the Supra or SC in existence anymore... but dont forget about the IS350 and IS460... and do not forget that Toyota is rumored to bring the Supra back (prolly same 3.5 and 4.6 available as the IS including the same chassis, but less options and less luxury)
Last edited by Bean; 05-26-05 at 07:11 PM.
05-26-05, 09:23 PM
#14
Originally Posted by profuse007
LS always had V8 w/ the 1UZ, so i dotn know where thats goin.
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
what are you talkin about no 2jz after 1999? IS and GS still carry those 3liters.
as far as NA 2JZ, i guess you havent seen the true power of those blocks.
about older technology, i guess you havent follow it for awhile. toyota stick to the 2JZ, which seems very reliable to them, and stap on a variable tming head. so the technology havent change much.
2jz may not have the lower end torque even w/ the variable valve timing, theres alot of resources out there for 2JZ to gets its most potential.
but then to think of it, its a luxury based, so i guess a V8 would suit it.
i agree w/ you on the 99% wouldnt do so, but if you look at the status of what GSmodel are on the road. which model do you see more frequent? the inline or the V8?
and yup, a lot more gs300 than gs400 on the road, but who cares. lexus don't really care to have more sc on the road i think. that's more like a status car to them imho
05-26-05, 09:24 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Inabj2
They should of differianted the model line up and make the sc430 something other then a SC... They killed the SC coupe imo with the current sc430. (The SC430 is a nice car and all but its not even a coupe!)
anyway, the new sc is not like the old sc that's for sure, very clearly. but lexus decides that the new sc430 is what they want to persue rather than the old sc that's what i can tell