Is the Lexus SC 400 Better Than a Bargain BMW 850 You Just Found Online?
09-21-17, 12:32 PM
#17
Pit Crew
^^ The 850's were MUCH more expensive than SC's. Probably the equivalent of $100k cars originally if adjusted for inflation. The SC's were around $50kish cars adjusted for inflation. The only slightly fair comparison spec-for-spec was to the Z30 Soarer 1JZGTE 5-speeds back in 1990 and possibly in 1996 when 1JZGTE VVT-i models were introduced with the improved low down torque. In the USA, even by 1997/1998 (the year, not model year) when SC400 VVT-i's came out, I never got the impression that SC300/400's and BMW 840i's let alone 850i's were being thrown into writeup comparisons. Different price points and different customer bases.
Gerry, you did say you liked that 3.5L I-6 found in the early M5's from 1988-89. The E39 540i 6-speed and E39 M5 5-speed are nice too but of course still some trouble to work on. Just not quite as much as the 850i!!
Ezroni, the last model year for Supra MKIV 5-speed M/T's was also 1997. Just as with SC300's, 1998 Supra NA's were automatic only and the 1998 Supra Turbos were the only models to still get a manual transmission option.
Gerry, you did say you liked that 3.5L I-6 found in the early M5's from 1988-89. The E39 540i 6-speed and E39 M5 5-speed are nice too but of course still some trouble to work on. Just not quite as much as the 850i!!
Ezroni, the last model year for Supra MKIV 5-speed M/T's was also 1997. Just as with SC300's, 1998 Supra NA's were automatic only and the 1998 Supra Turbos were the only models to still get a manual transmission option.
) and when I first saw it I loved it.. way before I learned they were a V12 monster. But comparing them to SC's doesn't make too much sense; I agree with GTE Soarers being a fairer comparison. Also thanks for the info, I didn't know NA Supras ceased manuals at the same time as SC's but that makes sense to stop W58 production simultaneously between the two.I don't think I've ever seen an 850CSi for sale before.. anyone know the price range for them now (6spd)? I see one "mint" with 30K miles going for $230K lol but anyone else have any input?
Last edited by Ezroni; 09-21-17 at 12:37 PM.
09-21-17, 03:56 PM
#18
Brian's article is clearly biased (as it should be - this being a Lexus forum after all) but the comparisons seem far fetched. The V12 850 is a "monster" but in practical terms not a real choice against an OEM SC400. Now, a highly modified SC with a 1J and 450+ hp with improved suspension and tires not sure the BMW stands a chance......
The first gen SCs are a "love story" for a lot of us; the options we have to improve/modify the platforms, body kits, and various approaches to evolve these cars at a reasonable investment compared to the BMW is not even close. How often do you see a heavily modified BMW of any model??? Almost never. You buy an "M" version and pay for what you get.
Everyone's points in either direction are valid and if you have the money and garage space an 850 will look good in any collection.... I would invest in other choices, though...... (but I lack the garage space and a spouse that curtails such ideas.... ).
The first gen SCs are a "love story" for a lot of us; the options we have to improve/modify the platforms, body kits, and various approaches to evolve these cars at a reasonable investment compared to the BMW is not even close. How often do you see a heavily modified BMW of any model??? Almost never. You buy an "M" version and pay for what you get.
Everyone's points in either direction are valid and if you have the money and garage space an 850 will look good in any collection.... I would invest in other choices, though...... (but I lack the garage space and a spouse that curtails such ideas.... ).
09-21-17, 05:05 PM
#19
You can't compare an apple to an orange 
, then say one is better.
@Ezroni - I bought mine for $8k in 2004 .. sold it for $12.5k after two years . Their values have been going up because they are getting harder to find in a good condition without spending too much to restore .
@KahnB88 - The 3.5 straight six on the 535 (e34) and 635 (E24) which where my first Bimmers where not hard to work with. There is ample room on the engine bay . It was the V12s that I lost interest for Bimmers when those gaskets starts to leak and can't get them to pass emission. Just too pricey to maintain though doable. Then I tried the smaller 3 series, M3 and a convertible . My interest on them simply faded just like the Mitsu VR4s I had before the Bimmers. It is only with the MKIVs and SCs that I have stayed longer . Though as mentioned , my interest on MKIVs and SCs have been waning lately thats why the MKIVs will go one by one now as soon as I have returned them to stock so I can keep the built drive / power trains and just cash in. Just lucky to have kept 6 speeds in my barn and benefit from them now . I can even get a Lamborghini or a new Alpha 12 GTR with the profit I am making from them but that in my opinion is not a good decision since the values of those cars only goes down as time pass .
I will still have fast cars anyway in the two SC sleepers that will be capable of hurting a lot of feelings on the streets
.
, then say one is better.@Ezroni - I bought mine for $8k in 2004 .. sold it for $12.5k after two years . Their values have been going up because they are getting harder to find in a good condition without spending too much to restore .
@KahnB88 - The 3.5 straight six on the 535 (e34) and 635 (E24) which where my first Bimmers where not hard to work with. There is ample room on the engine bay . It was the V12s that I lost interest for Bimmers when those gaskets starts to leak and can't get them to pass emission. Just too pricey to maintain though doable. Then I tried the smaller 3 series, M3 and a convertible . My interest on them simply faded just like the Mitsu VR4s I had before the Bimmers. It is only with the MKIVs and SCs that I have stayed longer . Though as mentioned , my interest on MKIVs and SCs have been waning lately thats why the MKIVs will go one by one now as soon as I have returned them to stock so I can keep the built drive / power trains and just cash in. Just lucky to have kept 6 speeds in my barn and benefit from them now . I can even get a Lamborghini or a new Alpha 12 GTR with the profit I am making from them but that in my opinion is not a good decision since the values of those cars only goes down as time pass .
I will still have fast cars anyway in the two SC sleepers that will be capable of hurting a lot of feelings on the streets
.
09-21-17, 05:32 PM
#20
I can appreciate the M cars for what they are but I would never consider them a DIY friendly chassis. Even the older cars are a pain in the *** to work on compared to anything Japanese although E30s are quite nice. And anything 2000+ is a complete nightmare.
That's why the "new" BMW crowd, and there are plenty of those are the kind that do not own a single screw driver in their house or garage, have the dealership or shop do everything on those cars. No emotional connection whatsoever besides bragging rights, etc. The old school BMW crowd is VERY different and actually work on the cars themselves.
That's why the "new" BMW crowd, and there are plenty of those are the kind that do not own a single screw driver in their house or garage, have the dealership or shop do everything on those cars. No emotional connection whatsoever besides bragging rights, etc. The old school BMW crowd is VERY different and actually work on the cars themselves.
I dunno, I see a lot of them heavily modified for track use. I bet if you weren't on the forums, you'd have a similar perception of how few Lexuses are modified.
09-22-17, 12:46 AM
#21
Driver School Candidate
I own a 1991 BMW 850i and a 1998 SC300, not a 400 but I still cant compare them together. So different..the most important question is whether youre looking for a fragile toy or a workhorse? As others have said, the 8 is a collectors car and it needs disposable income, especially if its a bargain...that actually seems scary lol. The SCs were so well built... the 8 has 2 of everything...
09-22-17, 06:30 AM
#22
Now that I am making more money I may look into getting an 840ci after I get my LX470 and MKIV Supra. I love BMW but my E92 328i left me sour from all the money I dropped on repairs. Its the most fun car I have driven besides an SL550 and the new Corvette Stingray.
09-22-17, 06:34 AM
#23
You can't compare an apple to an orange , then say one is better.
@Ezroni - I bought mine for $8k in 2004 .. sold it for $12.5k after two years . Their values have been going up because they are getting harder to find in a good condition without spending too much to restore .
@KahnB88 - The 3.5 straight six on the 535 (e34) and 635 (E24) which where my first Bimmers where not hard to work with. There is ample room on the engine bay . It was the V12s that I lost interest for Bimmers when those gaskets starts to leak and can't get them to pass emission. Just too pricey to maintain though doable. Then I tried the smaller 3 series, M3 and a convertible . My interest on them simply faded just like the Mitsu VR4s I had before the Bimmers. It is only with the MKIVs and SCs that I have stayed longer . Though as mentioned , my interest on MKIVs and SCs have been waning lately thats why the MKIVs will go one by one now as soon as I have returned them to stock so I can keep the built drive / power trains and just cash in. Just lucky to have kept 6 speeds in my barn and benefit from them now . I can even get a Lamborghini or a new Alpha 12 GTR with the profit I am making from them but that in my opinion is not a good decision since the values of those cars only goes down as time pass .
I will still have fast cars anyway in the two SC sleepers that will be capable of hurting a lot of feelings on the streets .
, then say one is better.@Ezroni - I bought mine for $8k in 2004 .. sold it for $12.5k after two years . Their values have been going up because they are getting harder to find in a good condition without spending too much to restore .
@KahnB88 - The 3.5 straight six on the 535 (e34) and 635 (E24) which where my first Bimmers where not hard to work with. There is ample room on the engine bay . It was the V12s that I lost interest for Bimmers when those gaskets starts to leak and can't get them to pass emission. Just too pricey to maintain though doable. Then I tried the smaller 3 series, M3 and a convertible . My interest on them simply faded just like the Mitsu VR4s I had before the Bimmers. It is only with the MKIVs and SCs that I have stayed longer . Though as mentioned , my interest on MKIVs and SCs have been waning lately thats why the MKIVs will go one by one now as soon as I have returned them to stock so I can keep the built drive / power trains and just cash in. Just lucky to have kept 6 speeds in my barn and benefit from them now . I can even get a Lamborghini or a new Alpha 12 GTR with the profit I am making from them but that in my opinion is not a good decision since the values of those cars only goes down as time pass .
I will still have fast cars anyway in the two SC sleepers that will be capable of hurting a lot of feelings on the streets
.Hopefully you can keep your interest in Supras and SC's. You're one of the biggest heavy hitters in the Supra and SC scene.
09-24-17, 03:27 PM
#24
With his very built SC's I don't think Gerry is going away from SC's any time soon He's just not keeping quite so many of them as before. I can understand where he's coming from wanting to keep a similar experience to the collector status MKIV TT's with his custom SC's. Personally I'd love to own an MKIV TT 6-speed (Even if that's an NA converted with a GTE or a factory TT Auto. And either one of them converted with a Tremec Magnum) because the body lines are so beautiful but it is much harder to justify driving them around as DD cars compared to SC's converted with the same mechanical hardware.
Regarding the 8-series, the new BMW prototype 8 is now getting a top line M8 variant with a 700hp version of their corporate 4.4L V8. Still not really on the same level of timeless looks as the E31 though. And of course no manual despite the concept being decidedly non-racecar.
He's just not keeping quite so many of them as before. I can understand where he's coming from wanting to keep a similar experience to the collector status MKIV TT's with his custom SC's. Personally I'd love to own an MKIV TT 6-speed (Even if that's an NA converted with a GTE or a factory TT Auto. And either one of them converted with a Tremec Magnum) because the body lines are so beautiful but it is much harder to justify driving them around as DD cars compared to SC's converted with the same mechanical hardware.Regarding the 8-series, the new BMW prototype 8 is now getting a top line M8 variant with a 700hp version of their corporate 4.4L V8. Still not really on the same level of timeless looks as the E31 though. And of course no manual despite the concept being decidedly non-racecar.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 09-24-17 at 03:32 PM.
09-25-17, 02:49 AM
#25
@Kira X and @KahnBB6 - 
all my Supra MKIVs will disappear before the SCs. Too much money sitting on the MKIVs that can be used for something else so it just make sense that they will go first. I can still have as fast and as powerful cars in the SC anyway. I hate to say I will never sell the SCs also since I don't know what life brings ahead and I have said it in more than 100 cars that "I am keeping this car for good" but as my wife would attest , it never happened . At this point though , it will take a lot of arm twisting for me to give up my two Ultimate Sleepers ... a 6 speed and an Auto SCs. Nobody will buy them anyway at a good price so no point of selling.
But interests definitely change , been engrossed with convertibles now like the SL500 and a local member here would probably trade me his convertible BMW with one of the SC that I still want to let go.
all my Supra MKIVs will disappear before the SCs. Too much money sitting on the MKIVs that can be used for something else so it just make sense that they will go first. I can still have as fast and as powerful cars in the SC anyway. I hate to say I will never sell the SCs also since I don't know what life brings ahead and I have said it in more than 100 cars that "I am keeping this car for good" but as my wife would attest , it never happened . At this point though , it will take a lot of arm twisting for me to give up my two Ultimate Sleepers ... a 6 speed and an Auto SCs. Nobody will buy them anyway at a good price so no point of selling.But interests definitely change , been engrossed with convertibles now like the SL500 and a local member here would probably trade me his convertible BMW with one of the SC that I still want to let go.
09-25-17, 10:04 AM
#26
It's funny after reading some of your posts, we all have same interests 
840 ci or 850c or whatever I've looked at those before not a tuner friendly cars by any means, nowhere near the amount of aftermarket parts that are available for scs. The last 3 if the 850 mоdels I saw were driveway ornaments been sitting in the same spot for years= Mechanical problems. For those ppl who hasn't experienced the bmw service department you're in for reality face slap with a heavy bill when it comes to repairs and maintenance, good luck with those bushings, oh by the way those cars have such a lame *** dated interiors makes me vomit squares
i had a bimmer once, I don't miss it I love LEXUS Toyota products!!!!
840 ci or 850c or whatever I've looked at those before not a tuner friendly cars by any means, nowhere near the amount of aftermarket parts that are available for scs. The last 3 if the 850 mоdels I saw were driveway ornaments been sitting in the same spot for years= Mechanical problems. For those ppl who hasn't experienced the bmw service department you're in for reality face slap with a heavy bill when it comes to repairs and maintenance, good luck with those bushings
, oh by the way those cars have such a lame *** dated interiors makes me vomit squares i had a bimmer once, I don't miss it I love LEXUS Toyota products!!!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post