The Future Of The Sc's
05-13-13, 09:28 PM
#17
Intermediate
Thread Starter
The Way I Feel Is that they lost soul there is no passion in what they do. C'mon look at The 90's We Had the Celica,Supra,Mr2,sc300,gs300,aristo,soarer,chaser,starlet,Ae86.
What Do We Have Today LFA,FRS,TC,ISF
Dont get Me started on why we have no more reliable inline 6's they were killed off for being to reliable and Supposedly Tougher CARB Laws
What Do We Have Today LFA,FRS,TC,ISF
Dont get Me started on why we have no more reliable inline 6's they were killed off for being to reliable and Supposedly Tougher CARB Laws
05-13-13, 10:56 PM
#18
This.
And plus, in your post, you were asking for somewhat affordable, which doesn't go so well with a luxury brand. And even back then when SC's first came out, it wasn't affordable at all, even now $50+K is still a huge amount of money. I like the direction Lexus is going personally, they're being innovators instead of following a trend or a "standard" which German/European cars has been leading ever since. I really think what Lexus needs to do is stay away from that, and people should stop comparing them to that. When Henry Ford built cars, I'm pretty sure people who used to ride horses were also going "we need more excitement than this".
And plus, in your post, you were asking for somewhat affordable, which doesn't go so well with a luxury brand. And even back then when SC's first came out, it wasn't affordable at all, even now $50+K is still a huge amount of money. I like the direction Lexus is going personally, they're being innovators instead of following a trend or a "standard" which German/European cars has been leading ever since. I really think what Lexus needs to do is stay away from that, and people should stop comparing them to that. When Henry Ford built cars, I'm pretty sure people who used to ride horses were also going "we need more excitement than this".
Last edited by OG Dada; 05-13-13 at 10:59 PM.
05-13-13, 11:19 PM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
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The Way I Feel Is that they lost soul there is no passion in what they do. C'mon look at The 90's We Had the Celica,Supra,Mr2,sc300,gs300,aristo,soarer,chaser,starlet,Ae86.
What Do We Have Today LFA,FRS,TC,ISF
Dont get Me started on why we have no more reliable inline 6's they were killed off for being to reliable and Supposedly Tougher CARB Laws
What Do We Have Today LFA,FRS,TC,ISF
Dont get Me started on why we have no more reliable inline 6's they were killed off for being to reliable and Supposedly Tougher CARB Laws
As a scion owner, I think the whole scion name should be burned to the ground. get rid of those terrible cars and slap a toyota badge onto the subaru. i mean the fr-s, though tbh, I think the fr-s is way over-hyped for what it is.
05-14-13, 07:40 AM
#20
Me too. The only positive I see for the LF-LC coming out that late is that I would have enough cash saved up to buy one.
Didn't Lexus have other concept coupes they were working on? I recall hearing about another on Car Chat but I don't remember the exact name of it.
Didn't Lexus have other concept coupes they were working on? I recall hearing about another on Car Chat but I don't remember the exact name of it.
05-14-13, 10:32 AM
#21
They don't have it any longer, no.
But really, how is this a surprise? Look at their track record: Lexus made its name on two main successes initially. Those were the the LS400 (Celsior?) and SC300/400 (VERY watered down Soarers). Somehow, they made money and spent bundles on marketing to help. Lexus North America has never, other than the original GS400, 98-00 SC400 and IS-F, been remotely interested in offering performance with their luxury image. This, despite there being an available superior drivetrain and option list in the Japanese version of almost every model they sold in the USA in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Lexus NA has a HUGE sway over what we get here versus what Toyota/Lexus Japan might sell in their home markets. For kicks, I made a what-if thread about SC's and I was actually surprised by many of the responses:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...in-the-us.html
The IS250 never had an improved manual and now there is no manual option at all. The IS350 and IS-F never had a manual option while BMW 335i's and 535i's have always had manual options.
Lexus would do well to make their LF-LC if they wish to but they should make another SC coupe to compete with the likes of Audi's A5. I can't keep track of how many times I've thought the A5 has a near timeless look in its current styling. I feel the same way about the 92-00 SC. And what price range are those A5's selling for? Certainly not $100k. Even the RS5 is only a $70k MSRP vehicle. That's the ballpark of what SC300/400's used to cost when adjusted for inflation.
Even with regulations, Toyota could come up with a small displacement turbocharged engine that would have the same power output as the 1JZ-GTE VVT-i Soarer engine. They could do it but the question is whether or not Lexus NA feels that such a powerplant is in line with their asinine "brand image". The overbuilt quality of the engines may or may not ever come to pass again. Toyota overbuilt the JZ design to compete with Nissan's overbuilt RB designs. Both companies spread the R&D costs by making many tame non-turbo JZ and RB sixes. Lexus just happened to benefit from some of that magic inadvertently.
Regulations MIGHT possibly make styling a coupe like the original SC difficult but I don't really think so. If Toyota and Subaru can come up with a car like the GT86/FR-S/BRZ then they could make a new SC if they wanted to.
The designer of the GT86 on the Toyota side is already working on a more powerful version of the small 2+2 RWD and also a new Supra. All that he's said about the latter is that it will not have a Prius-like hybrid drivetrain.
Toyota also needs to sell their Mark X in the USA. The Avalon is pitiful as a flagship.
Lexus I can only guess about but it's never been about whether they have what it takes to sway buyers who enjoy driving from buying German. It's about whether they even care about those buyers at all.
Do they still have it? With Akio Toyoda at the helm... maybe. But they need more than a GT86 and future Supra and MR2 (they are planning one of those as well) to make Toyota/Lexus interesting again.
But really, how is this a surprise? Look at their track record: Lexus made its name on two main successes initially. Those were the the LS400 (Celsior?) and SC300/400 (VERY watered down Soarers). Somehow, they made money and spent bundles on marketing to help. Lexus North America has never, other than the original GS400, 98-00 SC400 and IS-F, been remotely interested in offering performance with their luxury image. This, despite there being an available superior drivetrain and option list in the Japanese version of almost every model they sold in the USA in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Lexus NA has a HUGE sway over what we get here versus what Toyota/Lexus Japan might sell in their home markets. For kicks, I made a what-if thread about SC's and I was actually surprised by many of the responses:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...in-the-us.html
The IS250 never had an improved manual and now there is no manual option at all. The IS350 and IS-F never had a manual option while BMW 335i's and 535i's have always had manual options.
Lexus would do well to make their LF-LC if they wish to but they should make another SC coupe to compete with the likes of Audi's A5. I can't keep track of how many times I've thought the A5 has a near timeless look in its current styling. I feel the same way about the 92-00 SC. And what price range are those A5's selling for? Certainly not $100k. Even the RS5 is only a $70k MSRP vehicle. That's the ballpark of what SC300/400's used to cost when adjusted for inflation.
Even with regulations, Toyota could come up with a small displacement turbocharged engine that would have the same power output as the 1JZ-GTE VVT-i Soarer engine. They could do it but the question is whether or not Lexus NA feels that such a powerplant is in line with their asinine "brand image". The overbuilt quality of the engines may or may not ever come to pass again. Toyota overbuilt the JZ design to compete with Nissan's overbuilt RB designs. Both companies spread the R&D costs by making many tame non-turbo JZ and RB sixes. Lexus just happened to benefit from some of that magic inadvertently.
Regulations MIGHT possibly make styling a coupe like the original SC difficult but I don't really think so. If Toyota and Subaru can come up with a car like the GT86/FR-S/BRZ then they could make a new SC if they wanted to.
The designer of the GT86 on the Toyota side is already working on a more powerful version of the small 2+2 RWD and also a new Supra. All that he's said about the latter is that it will not have a Prius-like hybrid drivetrain.
Toyota also needs to sell their Mark X in the USA. The Avalon is pitiful as a flagship.
Lexus I can only guess about but it's never been about whether they have what it takes to sway buyers who enjoy driving from buying German. It's about whether they even care about those buyers at all.
Do they still have it? With Akio Toyoda at the helm... maybe. But they need more than a GT86 and future Supra and MR2 (they are planning one of those as well) to make Toyota/Lexus interesting again.
05-14-13, 11:26 AM
#22
Sources in Japan say Toyota’s version (of the joint BMW/Toyota sports car) will actually underpin an all-new Lexus sports car, a suggestion that makes all the sense in the world given Akio Toyoda’s ambition to make Lexus a genuine global rival to the German lux-meisters. Whisper is the new Lexus will be positioned to compete with the Mercedes SLK, BMW Z4, and entry-level Porsche Boxster.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/05/1...seat-roadster/
05-14-13, 01:17 PM
#23
Good points kahn... Do they really care? That is the question and I guess they answered that question with the LFA but @ $300K+ i think it is clear they are letting Toyota deal with that. In all honesty the SC is not a good sports car. Coming from a Z33 & SR S14 the sc doesn't even compare. Now with that said the sc fills a void that the Z33 and S14 had which was comfort. I left those platforms to build a straight line monster that was comfy. I didn't want a corner karver or tougue beast. So i guess the question would be if they return to a comfy 2 seater since the FRS is the new corner karver \ tougue beast. Like most said the SC is unattainable to most new so i have a feeling guys aren't brawling in the board room to get a new sports car done by Lexus in the 30+-70K range
05-14-13, 04:10 PM
#24
Sources in Japan say Toyota’s version (of the joint BMW/Toyota sports car) will actually underpin an all-new Lexus sports car, a suggestion that makes all the sense in the world given Akio Toyoda’s ambition to make Lexus a genuine global rival to the German lux-meisters. Whisper is the new Lexus will be positioned to compete with the Mercedes SLK, BMW Z4, and entry-level Porsche Boxster.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/05/1...seat-roadster/
05-14-13, 06:50 PM
#25
Intermediate
Thread Starter
They don't have it any longer, no.
But really, how is this a surprise? Look at their track record: Lexus made its name on two main successes initially. Those were the the LS400 (Celsior?) and SC300/400 (VERY watered down Soarers). Somehow, they made money and spent bundles on marketing to help. Lexus North America has never, other than the original GS400, 98-00 SC400 and IS-F, been remotely interested in offering performance with their luxury image. This, despite there being an available superior drivetrain and option list in the Japanese version of almost every model they sold in the USA in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Lexus NA has a HUGE sway over what we get here versus what Toyota/Lexus Japan might sell in their home markets. For kicks, I made a what-if thread about SC's and I was actually surprised by many of the responses:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...in-the-us.html
The IS250 never had an improved manual and now there is no manual option at all. The IS350 and IS-F never had a manual option while BMW 335i's and 535i's have always had manual options.
Lexus would do well to make their LF-LC if they wish to but they should make another SC coupe to compete with the likes of Audi's A5. I can't keep track of how many times I've thought the A5 has a near timeless look in its current styling. I feel the same way about the 92-00 SC. And what price range are those A5's selling for? Certainly not $100k. Even the RS5 is only a $70k MSRP vehicle. That's the ballpark of what SC300/400's used to cost when adjusted for inflation.
Even with regulations, Toyota could come up with a small displacement turbocharged engine that would have the same power output as the 1JZ-GTE VVT-i Soarer engine. They could do it but the question is whether or not Lexus NA feels that such a powerplant is in line with their asinine "brand image". The overbuilt quality of the engines may or may not ever come to pass again. Toyota overbuilt the JZ design to compete with Nissan's overbuilt RB designs. Both companies spread the R&D costs by making many tame non-turbo JZ and RB sixes. Lexus just happened to benefit from some of that magic inadvertently.
Regulations MIGHT possibly make styling a coupe like the original SC difficult but I don't really think so. If Toyota and Subaru can come up with a car like the GT86/FR-S/BRZ then they could make a new SC if they wanted to.
The designer of the GT86 on the Toyota side is already working on a more powerful version of the small 2+2 RWD and also a new Supra. All that he's said about the latter is that it will not have a Prius-like hybrid drivetrain.
Toyota also needs to sell their Mark X in the USA. The Avalon is pitiful as a flagship.
Lexus I can only guess about but it's never been about whether they have what it takes to sway buyers who enjoy driving from buying German. It's about whether they even care about those buyers at all.
Do they still have it? With Akio Toyoda at the helm... maybe. But they need more than a GT86 and future Supra and MR2 (they are planning one of those as well) to make Toyota/Lexus interesting again.
But really, how is this a surprise? Look at their track record: Lexus made its name on two main successes initially. Those were the the LS400 (Celsior?) and SC300/400 (VERY watered down Soarers). Somehow, they made money and spent bundles on marketing to help. Lexus North America has never, other than the original GS400, 98-00 SC400 and IS-F, been remotely interested in offering performance with their luxury image. This, despite there being an available superior drivetrain and option list in the Japanese version of almost every model they sold in the USA in the 1990's and early 2000's.
Lexus NA has a HUGE sway over what we get here versus what Toyota/Lexus Japan might sell in their home markets. For kicks, I made a what-if thread about SC's and I was actually surprised by many of the responses:
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sc-...in-the-us.html
The IS250 never had an improved manual and now there is no manual option at all. The IS350 and IS-F never had a manual option while BMW 335i's and 535i's have always had manual options.
Lexus would do well to make their LF-LC if they wish to but they should make another SC coupe to compete with the likes of Audi's A5. I can't keep track of how many times I've thought the A5 has a near timeless look in its current styling. I feel the same way about the 92-00 SC. And what price range are those A5's selling for? Certainly not $100k. Even the RS5 is only a $70k MSRP vehicle. That's the ballpark of what SC300/400's used to cost when adjusted for inflation.
Even with regulations, Toyota could come up with a small displacement turbocharged engine that would have the same power output as the 1JZ-GTE VVT-i Soarer engine. They could do it but the question is whether or not Lexus NA feels that such a powerplant is in line with their asinine "brand image". The overbuilt quality of the engines may or may not ever come to pass again. Toyota overbuilt the JZ design to compete with Nissan's overbuilt RB designs. Both companies spread the R&D costs by making many tame non-turbo JZ and RB sixes. Lexus just happened to benefit from some of that magic inadvertently.
Regulations MIGHT possibly make styling a coupe like the original SC difficult but I don't really think so. If Toyota and Subaru can come up with a car like the GT86/FR-S/BRZ then they could make a new SC if they wanted to.
The designer of the GT86 on the Toyota side is already working on a more powerful version of the small 2+2 RWD and also a new Supra. All that he's said about the latter is that it will not have a Prius-like hybrid drivetrain.
Toyota also needs to sell their Mark X in the USA. The Avalon is pitiful as a flagship.
Lexus I can only guess about but it's never been about whether they have what it takes to sway buyers who enjoy driving from buying German. It's about whether they even care about those buyers at all.
Do they still have it? With Akio Toyoda at the helm... maybe. But they need more than a GT86 and future Supra and MR2 (they are planning one of those as well) to make Toyota/Lexus interesting again.
As I Read In Your Post that are cars place in different categories "Which Is more luxury than sport" but what people tend to forget is it can be made to handle somewhat nicely. They definitely perform now all i'm asking is why can't we have a better platform to build on from the get go not some weak power to weight ratio cars.
if Bmw can put some sport into all of there cars and i mean i've been a 2000 525i it had the handling but there wasn't the smooth power are 2j's offer
. give a luxury car for the enthusiast give us a car we want to drive they need to study a lot from the Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track That is a proper 2dr it has power does handle and it even has a good ride
. LEXUS TAKE NOTES!
05-14-13, 08:55 PM
#28
Got a reply from Toyota (still awaiting Lexus' reply) ...
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your feedback because the only way we know what our customers are looking for is when they tell us, as you have. We try to scope out our customers in advance, by researching the market, conducting interviews, surveys, focus groups and doing our homework, but there's no better source than a Toyota owner who takes the time to tell us like it is.
We can't guarantee that a "Renaissance Vehicle" would be made, but your honest feedback may help us to evaluate different alternatives.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us via email by using the following link, http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html, or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday and from 7 AM to 4 PM on Saturday.
Sincerely,
Anita Mouton
Toyota Customer Experience
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your feedback because the only way we know what our customers are looking for is when they tell us, as you have. We try to scope out our customers in advance, by researching the market, conducting interviews, surveys, focus groups and doing our homework, but there's no better source than a Toyota owner who takes the time to tell us like it is.
We can't guarantee that a "Renaissance Vehicle" would be made, but your honest feedback may help us to evaluate different alternatives.
Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters.
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us via email by using the following link, http://www.toyota.com/help/contactus.html, or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday and from 7 AM to 4 PM on Saturday.
Sincerely,
Anita Mouton
Toyota Customer Experience
05-14-13, 09:09 PM
#29
Good points kahn... Do they really care? That is the question and I guess they answered that question with the LFA but @ $300K+ i think it is clear they are letting Toyota deal with that. In all honesty the SC is not a good sports car. Coming from a Z33 & SR S14 the sc doesn't even compare. Now with that said the sc fills a void that the Z33 and S14 had which was comfort. I left those platforms to build a straight line monster that was comfy. I didn't want a corner karver or tougue beast. So i guess the question would be if they return to a comfy 2 seater since the FRS is the new corner karver \ tougue beast. Like most said the SC is unattainable to most new so i have a feeling guys aren't brawling in the board room to get a new sports car done by Lexus in the 30+-70K range
Not to offend anyone but when I got into mine at a used car dealer my first impression was the idea of a racy Buick coupe built by Toyota. I remembered test driving a used 1987 Grand National and of course it didn't have the power of the GN but the car felt similar in a way.
But the caveats you feel in a GN/T-Type's body you don't feel in an SC. Night and day difference of course. Difference being that an SC can actually handle very well like a GT tourer. Even stock you get that feeling at least with a 5-speed manual car.
More genuine sports cars act differently and I never felt the SC should be compared to the likes of a 370Z or Lotus. I feel there is a place for both in the car world.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 05-14-13 at 09:16 PM.
05-15-13, 01:54 PM
#30
I'm not sure if Toyota still has it to be honest. Supposedly the IS-F has been cancelled and there still isn't an SC430 successor. I read that the LF-LC coupe might come into production but it's still a few years away. I think if they want to stay competitive with BMW, Audi, and Mercedes they need to bring out another SC. Toyota keeps coming up with cool concept cars but none of them have hit the production stage.
The FRS and LFA were a step in the right direction. The cancellation of the IS-F and SC was two steps back.
The FRS and LFA were a step in the right direction. The cancellation of the IS-F and SC was two steps back.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2013/01/2...on-lexus-is-f/
Also the LF-LC has been confirmed for production. I've read that the expected release date is around 2017.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...duction-report
I'm currently looking forward to see what Toyota does with the two RWD performance coupes they are planning. The FR-S/GT86 was just the beginning, it's part of a plan for a three-tier performance coupe offering, with the FR-S being the slowest/cheapest.