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Not much of an update.
The dealership has had the vehicle since 4/4/18. We have had the loaner since then. When we made our independent claim with corporate, they acted as if they had no prior knowledge of the claim already denied by the dealer. So, we're basically starting from scratch. We spoke to Corporate earlier this week and they said that we should have a response by Thursday... Friday at the latest. They just called and told us they would like to keep it for another week as they are still investigating. A couple of times this week, we have gotten notifications that the car doors were locked or unlocked, so I assume the dealer is having to move it around the shop to continue other work. We don't really know what our next step is though we cross our fingers and toes hoping for a positive outcome. I did, on a whim, try to find the missing piece of glass last week by driving up and down the stretch of interstate where the glass disappeared. No luck, but i wasnt expecting much after the passage of time.
To keep facts present
The noise issue was reported on more than one occasion. The dealer inspected during routine service, noted on the inspection sheet nothing out of the ordinary after 1-2 mile test drive, and advised to keep sunshade closed to minimize noise.
I was able to pull photos from our security cameras of the vehicle exiting the garage 30 minutes prior to the incident with a fully intact roof (not sure that this really helps anything). I've attached the "after" photo she sent from the vet parking lot. It looks to me like the adhesive failed. No glass on top of the sunshade. just this string of adhesive covered in shards
I know there was a suggestion of a rock causing this - how the hell would a rock break/detach the glass roof that's halfway along the car. I understand windscreens as they're raised and can hit a rock which obviously can crack the windscreen, but the roof is a horizontal surface and the only way a rock would hit that would be if it's falling at the end of it's trajectory. The energy involved at that point would be far less than hitting a windscreen - obviously a BIG rock may do it, but not a rock that flies up from the road.
I know there was a suggestion of a rock causing this - how the hell would a rock break/detach the glass roof that's halfway along the car. I understand windscreens as they're raised and can hit a rock which obviously can crack the windscreen, but the roof is a horizontal surface and the only way a rock would hit that would be if it's falling at the end of it's trajectory. The energy involved at that point would be far less than hitting a windscreen - obviously a BIG rock may do it, but not a rock that flies up from the road.
What about the possibility of a rock or other object that falls or is dropped from an overpass? While that may not have been the cause, it certainly is a possibility.
it's odd to me that there is shattered glass left, if it was adhesive, I would not expect to see anything left, the whole window would have lifted and flown off. seeing that there is an edge of spidered glass left presumably where the adhesive held, would lead me to believe it was not a failure of the adhesive, but a failure of the glass, maybe imploded as suggested, but that would likely happen when you close the doors and there is pressure that needs to be released and can't.
for glass to fail like that at highway speed there has to be something that interacted with it,
it's odd to me that there is shattered glass left, if it was adhesive, I would not expect to see anything left, the whole window would have lifted and flown off. seeing that there is an edge of spidered glass left presumably where the adhesive held, would lead me to believe it was not a failure of the adhesive, but a failure of the glass, maybe imploded as suggested, but that would likely happen when you close the doors and there is pressure that needs to be released and can't.
for glass to fail like that at highway speed there has to be something that interacted with it,
could it be possible that a large portion of the glass had separated from the adhesive, allowing the wind of driving at highway speed to lift it to the point where the pressure exerted on the part still attached caused the plate to shatter?
could it be possible that a large portion of the glass had separated from the adhesive, allowing the wind of driving at highway speed to lift it to the point where the pressure exerted on the part still attached caused the plate to shatter?
I would be more inclined to believe that something chipped the glass possible at a corner and maybe at an earlier time and it resulted in an implosion at highway speeds.
There are many complaints filed against Ford and Honda with the NHTSA for their panoramic roofs imploding at highway speeds, Edge, Escape, MKX, Odyssey, etc. the NHTSA investigations thus far have indicated that there is no defect, and that in all cases it has reviewed there was an outside impact on the roof that resulted in the failure.
There was a suggestion in one report on a Honda Odyssey that the inside panel was exerting pressure on the glass when it was closed causing the glass roof of the Odyssey to flex or bow when the sun shade was closed, but the findings were inconclusive. This makes the most sense to me, as pressure from the inside would result in an implosion and the glass blowing outward, where an impact event from the outside was result in the glass shattering downward and into the vehicle.
But as of now, all the research into the matter by the NHTSA of multiple manufacturers indicates no conclusive defects or failures and glass breakage is an insurance claim, not a warranty claim. Honda issues a credit in the amount of your insurance deductible for future service at a Honda dealer, so far Ford and GM seem to tell their customers to file an insurance claim and offer no credit or compensation for the issue, and it appears that Ford has 15 times as many complaints as any other manufacturer. I will also state that Honda had a lot of complaints on the Odyssey between 2011 and 2013 model years for this issue, since then the complaints have dropped to nearly zero, indicating to me that Honda may have addressed the issue in 2014 and forward models, (as the 2011-2017 are the same generation of the Odyssey, with no significant refresh until 2018) but have at no time indicated it was a design or installation flaw, but seeing as they are at least willing to offer a credit to customers and did obviously change something that has resulted in less issues surrounding the same model generation, it would seem there is an manufacturing issue of some kind at least with their product.
for the OP of this thread:
The NHTSA is the gov't agency that deals with recalls, If you are interested in filing a complaint you may call their Hotline at 1-888-327- 4236
I really think that the adhesive on the front passenger corner (Top left corner in the photo) was progressively failing. When we first noted the excessive wind noise, I think it continued to pull the adhesive away until it finally reached a point where there was enough for the wind to to cause it to lift and break away. Had we not reported an issue prior to this incident, I could see why Lexus would have a reason to just deny any responsibility. After all that I've read, I don't have high hopes of a favorable resolution, but I think it would be the right thing to do rather than telling someone that the wind noise they're hearing is all a part of the package after hearing others here with pano moon roofs have no noise complaints. I think this all could have been prevented.
In keeping the car for this long to investigate and in providing a loaner for that period of time, they will end up spending more money "investigating" than if they would just replace the glass and move on. Yikes.
In keeping the car for this long to investigate and in providing a loaner for that period of time, they will end up spending more money "investigating" than if they would just replace the glass and move on. Yikes.
True but they don't want to set a precedent for the next ones that implode.
I really think that the adhesive on the front passenger corner (Top left corner in the photo) was progressively failing. When we first noted the excessive wind noise, I think it continued to pull the adhesive away until it finally reached a point where there was enough for the wind to to cause it to lift and break away. Had we not reported an issue prior to this incident, I could see why Lexus would have a reason to just deny any responsibility. After all that I've read, I don't have high hopes of a favorable resolution, but I think it would be the right thing to do rather than telling someone that the wind noise they're hearing is all a part of the package after hearing others here with pano moon roofs have no noise complaints. I think this all could have been prevented.
I don't disagree with you, but I spent 20 years of my life working as an ASE tech and advisor at Chrysler and GM dealerships, and this is how the game is played. Warranty refusal is not done by the manufacturer, it is done by the dealer warranty rep, they play the odds. If they don't think the manufacturer will reimburse for the repair they deny it. Then let the customer either pay for it, or take it up with corporate. It is only when you as a consumer contact the manufacturer customer service that the manufacturer will get involved, else it is up to the dealer and their warranty review rep to decide what is and what is not covered within the parameters of the warranty and their relationship with the manufacturer.
Remember, dealerships are privately owned and operated, they have sets of rules they must follow as a representative of the manufacturer, but at the end of the day their business decisions are theirs, not Lexus' or any other manufacturer.
To get past first base with dealerships you have to go to corporate. There should be a regional warranty rep that oversees problem issues like this, if you can find out who they are, get to know them, as they are going to be the final say from the manufacturer point of view on any issue.
Borrowed from another thread. Mine pano is rougher than this at the front edge
I know this is nothing as bad as the broken rear portion of the moon roof but pano has a very rough edge of poor workmanship that Lexus dealerships and Lexus corporate will do nothing about.
Update
Road to Resolution
Lexus has agreed to take care of the damage. All in all, they said 10 people were involved in the review and that the prior complaint and the fact that no glass was left behind played into the decision. We also received clarification that the estimate does include paint repair to the roof. They have the glass already but have to wait on paperwork to come through. We are 1-2 weeks out from getting the vehicle back. They said we may need to swap out the loaner in the meantime, but that's fine. This is great news!
04-20-18, 11:31 AM
