Disapointed by RX350 AWD Snow Capability
01-11-17, 10:49 AM
#121
Intermediate
It is almost too good because it is easy to drive too fast and crash.
Just Monday I was beside what looked like a new 4-Runner at a traffic light. It appeared to have all-season tires so I was surprised that it could keep up with me as well as it did when we pulled away when the traffic light turned green since our FWD Sienna has Blizzak WS80 on it. When we got to the next traffic light which turned red as we approached, we both braked at about the same time. I was able to stop easily but he slid into the intersection with his brake lights on. It was dumb luck that he didn't collide with cross traffic.
ABS doesn't do nearly as much "hammering" when real winter tires are used - the vehicle just stops with no drama. It's so incredibly different that it's scary. If your ABS is doing a lot of hammering it means that you are out of control.
Just Monday I was beside what looked like a new 4-Runner at a traffic light. It appeared to have all-season tires so I was surprised that it could keep up with me as well as it did when we pulled away when the traffic light turned green since our FWD Sienna has Blizzak WS80 on it. When we got to the next traffic light which turned red as we approached, we both braked at about the same time. I was able to stop easily but he slid into the intersection with his brake lights on. It was dumb luck that he didn't collide with cross traffic.
ABS doesn't do nearly as much "hammering" when real winter tires are used - the vehicle just stops with no drama. It's so incredibly different that it's scary. If your ABS is doing a lot of hammering it means that you are out of control.
I've spoke to state cops about this, they see this overconfidence all the time.
Some years ago, the Province of Quebec (and perhaps other Canadian provinces) mandated the use of full snow tires in winter...if you don't have 'em, you get a ticket (and they're easy to spot, even in motion). Created a bit of a snow tire
shortage in the northern tier of the U.S.....
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MerlinT (01-11-17)
01-12-17, 10:33 AM
#122
garbage tires. Firestone/Bridgestone are the worst tires made, consumer reports, road and track, car and driver, and several other reports have all given Bridgestone All Season tires the lowest rating they have for the past dozen years.
best all seasons out there are BFGoodrich and Goodyear, highest ratings, longest life. Michelin and Pirelli come in 3rd/4th, while they are equal in grip and slip ratings in snow their life span is 1/3 less than BFGoodrich or Goodyear.
I have BFGoodrich on my 1995 4runner 4x4, they have over 30K miles on them and still have no issue in the snow, don't need chains or 4x4 mode in 8"-10" fresh powder, and only chains in packed snow.. I haven't used 4x4 mode going to mammoth or big bear yet this year, the 4runner runs like a champ and the tires hold their own.
best all seasons out there are BFGoodrich and Goodyear, highest ratings, longest life. Michelin and Pirelli come in 3rd/4th, while they are equal in grip and slip ratings in snow their life span is 1/3 less than BFGoodrich or Goodyear.
I have BFGoodrich on my 1995 4runner 4x4, they have over 30K miles on them and still have no issue in the snow, don't need chains or 4x4 mode in 8"-10" fresh powder, and only chains in packed snow.. I haven't used 4x4 mode going to mammoth or big bear yet this year, the 4runner runs like a champ and the tires hold their own.
I agree with other posters - the tires will make a huge difference, more so than the vehicle.
01-12-17, 11:10 AM
#123
Driver School Candidate
Yep, I already sold my RX350 last monday, because I didn't feel safe after 2 snow storms. The car kept sliding on the road. Even 5 mph turn with 4 news all season tires, RX still brought me into other people drive way. I did a test on the X5 with all season tires. The car didn't sliding at all. that make me think that Lexus AWD system is different than BMW AWD. What do you guys think?
01-12-17, 12:46 PM
#124
Driver School Candidate
I can not comment on the awd system of the BMW but as mentioned previously I agree most "awd" cars are not true awd. They are based on fwd systems. Ex. Mazda cx-5, Honda Crv, current gen Acura RDX (non sh-awd), rav 4 etc. Audi and Subaru have great awd systems along with the acura sh-awd system. We looked at all these vehicles before we bought the RX.
I agree that snow tires make or brake you or the lack of could even kill you in bad weather. Why risk it especially if your family is with you. We live on a very steep hill and my wife with factory all seasons on the Subaru could not make it to the first level. That car had an amazing awd system. I put bridgestone ws-70 on it and it was like a TV ad for Subaru watching that car climb the hill through 6" of snow no problem. Narrow snow tires seem to be the ticket. A wider tire in my experience seems to slide more on the snow and slush than a narrow one.
Good luck with the BMW
I agree that snow tires make or brake you or the lack of could even kill you in bad weather. Why risk it especially if your family is with you. We live on a very steep hill and my wife with factory all seasons on the Subaru could not make it to the first level. That car had an amazing awd system. I put bridgestone ws-70 on it and it was like a TV ad for Subaru watching that car climb the hill through 6" of snow no problem. Narrow snow tires seem to be the ticket. A wider tire in my experience seems to slide more on the snow and slush than a narrow one.
Good luck with the BMW
01-12-17, 01:06 PM
#125
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Yep, I already sold my RX350 last monday, because I didn't feel safe after 2 snow storms. The car kept sliding on the road. Even 5 mph turn with 4 news all season tires, RX still brought me into other people drive way. I did a test on the X5 with all season tires. The car didn't sliding at all. that make me think that Lexus AWD system is different than BMW AWD. What do you guys think?
out of of curiosity exactly what tires on your new BMW? Are they exactly the same ones you had on your RX?
01-12-17, 01:40 PM
#127
Lexus Champion
01-12-17, 02:12 PM
#128
My 2013 AWD does fine!
I been driving Lexus all of my life from 1999 ES300, 2001 ES300, 2006 RX330 and last one is 2013 RX350 AWD. I have to trade in my 2013 RX350 yesterday for 2016 BMW X5. I have to say this. RX350 AWD can't handle 5 inches of snow or more on the road. I love the RX a lot, but it kept sliding left to right when we had a snow storm in MA over the weekend. The X5 handle the snows much better. I will buy another Lexus when I live somewhere that doesn't have snow.
Well now it happened again...3" of rain followed by freezing rain and then it snowed about 6" at my house. The RX w/ all seasons did just fine...NO complaints here!!!
01-12-17, 02:15 PM
#129
The Tahoe resorts had almost 10 FEET this week!!! NOTHING Moves except tractors!! LOL
01-12-17, 02:17 PM
#130
Intermediate
As someone once pointed out to me, you spend a whole lot of money on a car ($40,000+ on an RX) and your ONLY interface with the road is provided by your tires
(unless your muffler is dragging). Makes it worthwhile (actually imperative) to spend the money for tires appropriate to your use and local conditions (which I know can vary widely).
(unless your muffler is dragging). Makes it worthwhile (actually imperative) to spend the money for tires appropriate to your use and local conditions (which I know can vary widely).
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JT4 (01-13-17)
01-12-17, 03:32 PM
#131
No, I don't play soccer!
Yup, that's the reason I started the tire thread. It's important to have the right shoes on the RX. They're definitely the most expensive, LOL! But its a moot issue here.
01-13-17, 05:57 AM
#132
Lexus Test Driver
Congrats on the X5 I hope you enjoy it, they are very nice vehicles.But once again depending on the brand of tire that is on your X5, you may be in the same position you were in with the RX..
My oldest son bought a new Q50S AWD last year that came with OEM Dunlop Sport runflat A/S tires. These tires although brand new were terrible in the snow, not so great in the rain, and the ride was ridiculously harsh. Checked out the reviews and they were rated a 3.2 for snow traction, 5.0 in the rain, and 3.8 for ride out of a possible 10..
He put on a set of Michelin A/S 3 plus that are rated 8.2 for snow, 9.5 for rain, and 9.2 for ride. You could tell the difference in ride immediately, and in the snow it was like you were driving a different vehicle..
They were well worth the money for the safety factor it gave us, and we kept the OEM Dunlops that only have 3,000 miles on them. They will go back on when his lease is up in about 2 years if the Michelins don't pass the lease end inspection.
My oldest son bought a new Q50S AWD last year that came with OEM Dunlop Sport runflat A/S tires. These tires although brand new were terrible in the snow, not so great in the rain, and the ride was ridiculously harsh. Checked out the reviews and they were rated a 3.2 for snow traction, 5.0 in the rain, and 3.8 for ride out of a possible 10..
He put on a set of Michelin A/S 3 plus that are rated 8.2 for snow, 9.5 for rain, and 9.2 for ride. You could tell the difference in ride immediately, and in the snow it was like you were driving a different vehicle..
They were well worth the money for the safety factor it gave us, and we kept the OEM Dunlops that only have 3,000 miles on them. They will go back on when his lease is up in about 2 years if the Michelins don't pass the lease end inspection.
01-13-17, 07:38 AM
#133
It's not the car, it's your tires. Even if both cars had all season, not all tires are created equal. The X5 may have better tread design than what was on your RX.
Like someone mentioned already, I'd take a front drive with snow tires over an AWD with crappy all season tires any day.
Like someone mentioned already, I'd take a front drive with snow tires over an AWD with crappy all season tires any day.
01-13-17, 01:03 PM
#134
This sounds like your tires or user error to me.
My 2010 RX AWD handles in the snow just fine. I don't go out specifically looking for snowstorms to drive in but many times I've been caught in some decent storms and was able to make it home ok. Even up some pretty steep hills.
And I've had two different sets of tires (Goodyear Assurance and the Pirellis I just put on this year). Both are all-seasons.
My previous snow vehicle was a Wrangler so when I bought the Lexus I was nervous that relatively speaking it wasn't going to be that good in the snow.
While no its not as good as the Wrangler in 4WD honestly its better than I expected and I feel pretty comfortable in the snow with it.
My 2010 RX AWD handles in the snow just fine. I don't go out specifically looking for snowstorms to drive in but many times I've been caught in some decent storms and was able to make it home ok. Even up some pretty steep hills.
And I've had two different sets of tires (Goodyear Assurance and the Pirellis I just put on this year). Both are all-seasons.
My previous snow vehicle was a Wrangler so when I bought the Lexus I was nervous that relatively speaking it wasn't going to be that good in the snow.
While no its not as good as the Wrangler in 4WD honestly its better than I expected and I feel pretty comfortable in the snow with it.
01-16-17, 09:29 AM
#135
Peter, just because you bought new A/S tires, it does not mean they are any good in snow. Generally, A/S tires are not meant for more than a small amount of snow. They are not "snow" tires. Do you know the exact Bridgestone tire you bought? I would like to know which A/S tire it is. Please also tell us what tires you have on the BMW, so we can compare.