HELP! help me diagnose the real problem...
06-05-16, 12:05 AM
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HELP! help me diagnose the real problem...
I have a 2006 RX400h. It has 170k miles on it. We bought it with 122k miles on it.
When we bought it, it had bad tires. We replaced the tires all the way around and had them balanced, and now, 50k miles later, the front tires are completely worn down on the edges, but the center of the tread is fine, a couple millimeters from the wear bars. The rear tires (replaced at the same time) still look almost new. these are 70k mile tires. (yes, I suck at getting them rotated).
The issues are, most noticeable when braking but discernible at all times, especially when not under power (coasting or decelerating without braking), the car feels like it’s hopping or shuddering slightly. If I happen to be hitting the brakes going down a large hill (such as the one i LIVE ON, DAMNIT), the shuddering can get quite severe. It is somewhat discernible under mild acceleration but almost imperceptible under hard acceleration. There has also always been an accompanying creaking and clunking sound, especially when turning the wheels one way or the other, also especially when turning to the maximum rotation. Also, driving the vehicle over bumpy surfaces, such as a blacktop parking lot, a speed bump, a pot hole, etc, produces a lot of audible rattle. It does not sound like a sheet metal rattle, but more like heavier metal that is loose, like two heavy metal items that are slapping around loosely but bolted together. as if the bolts had worked loose.
I was trying to diagnose the issue today, and was thinking ball joints. I lifted the front end and tried to shift the wheels up or down, shaking them, and there was zero play in them at all. moving the steering wheel does NOT produce any noise when the front end is off the ground. everything appears to be tight and in reasonably good condition considering the age. all gaskets and bushings appear to be in excellent visual shape with the possible exception of the lower control arm bushings, which I can’t really see.
I lowered the front end onto the ground again, and had my wife assist me by turning the wheels while I held onto the various joints to feel for the clunking. results were:
1. lower ball joint solid, no play or popping.
2. sway bar link solid, good condition, looks replaced probably around when I bought it. no clunking or looseness in either loaded or unloaded states.
3. tie rod bushings look great, no unusual wear discernible and appear to be in good working order.
4. moving the wheel using power steering, from one end of rotation to the other, produces a clunk in each direction at the end of directional travel. strut assembly seems to do a little rotation dance as the wheel turns, but no visible movement associated with the clunk.
5. pushing on the car side to side, or on the driver’s tire, side to side (top pushed inward to engine compartment and pulled outward again, rocking back and forth) produces a clunk that is very noticeable and very easily felt throughout the tire and wheel assembly, and the strut tower assembly, but not so much in the control arm or ball joint.
6. following the noise and clunk, felt the strut assembly and discovered that it is producing the largest amount of tactile feedback during the clunking or side to side rocking. it is solid feeling at the wheel assembly, so I checked the other end having removed the cover under the hood to view it. The top bolt appears to make a visible movement when the clunk happens, and it feels like it moves with the clunk.
I’m now thinking strut assembly, but I do not know what parts would cause this, and why it would rattle so much, especially going over bumps. The clunking is during turns, the rattling is on bumps at any speed.
ok, since we bought the car, we’ve replaced:
1. the wheel bearings (at a shop). This did not fix the issue.
2. The brakes were done at the lexus dealer, all 4 rotors and pads. Issue still not fixed.
so I turn to you amazing experts, please, tell me what i have going on in this thing. It’s my wife’s car and I’m honestly getting afraid to let her drive it around. I also can’t afford to have a dealership fix it or jack me around on charging to diagnose it.
When we bought it, it had bad tires. We replaced the tires all the way around and had them balanced, and now, 50k miles later, the front tires are completely worn down on the edges, but the center of the tread is fine, a couple millimeters from the wear bars. The rear tires (replaced at the same time) still look almost new. these are 70k mile tires. (yes, I suck at getting them rotated).
The issues are, most noticeable when braking but discernible at all times, especially when not under power (coasting or decelerating without braking), the car feels like it’s hopping or shuddering slightly. If I happen to be hitting the brakes going down a large hill (such as the one i LIVE ON, DAMNIT), the shuddering can get quite severe. It is somewhat discernible under mild acceleration but almost imperceptible under hard acceleration. There has also always been an accompanying creaking and clunking sound, especially when turning the wheels one way or the other, also especially when turning to the maximum rotation. Also, driving the vehicle over bumpy surfaces, such as a blacktop parking lot, a speed bump, a pot hole, etc, produces a lot of audible rattle. It does not sound like a sheet metal rattle, but more like heavier metal that is loose, like two heavy metal items that are slapping around loosely but bolted together. as if the bolts had worked loose.
I was trying to diagnose the issue today, and was thinking ball joints. I lifted the front end and tried to shift the wheels up or down, shaking them, and there was zero play in them at all. moving the steering wheel does NOT produce any noise when the front end is off the ground. everything appears to be tight and in reasonably good condition considering the age. all gaskets and bushings appear to be in excellent visual shape with the possible exception of the lower control arm bushings, which I can’t really see.
I lowered the front end onto the ground again, and had my wife assist me by turning the wheels while I held onto the various joints to feel for the clunking. results were:
1. lower ball joint solid, no play or popping.
2. sway bar link solid, good condition, looks replaced probably around when I bought it. no clunking or looseness in either loaded or unloaded states.
3. tie rod bushings look great, no unusual wear discernible and appear to be in good working order.
4. moving the wheel using power steering, from one end of rotation to the other, produces a clunk in each direction at the end of directional travel. strut assembly seems to do a little rotation dance as the wheel turns, but no visible movement associated with the clunk.
5. pushing on the car side to side, or on the driver’s tire, side to side (top pushed inward to engine compartment and pulled outward again, rocking back and forth) produces a clunk that is very noticeable and very easily felt throughout the tire and wheel assembly, and the strut tower assembly, but not so much in the control arm or ball joint.
6. following the noise and clunk, felt the strut assembly and discovered that it is producing the largest amount of tactile feedback during the clunking or side to side rocking. it is solid feeling at the wheel assembly, so I checked the other end having removed the cover under the hood to view it. The top bolt appears to make a visible movement when the clunk happens, and it feels like it moves with the clunk.
I’m now thinking strut assembly, but I do not know what parts would cause this, and why it would rattle so much, especially going over bumps. The clunking is during turns, the rattling is on bumps at any speed.
ok, since we bought the car, we’ve replaced:
1. the wheel bearings (at a shop). This did not fix the issue.
2. The brakes were done at the lexus dealer, all 4 rotors and pads. Issue still not fixed.
so I turn to you amazing experts, please, tell me what i have going on in this thing. It’s my wife’s car and I’m honestly getting afraid to let her drive it around. I also can’t afford to have a dealership fix it or jack me around on charging to diagnose it.
06-07-16, 10:57 PM
#3
I had something similar: a huge racket when you go through potholes, turning the steering while stationary and when I braked. I think I noticed tyre wear round the inside edge of the front wheels but it might have been a different issue. apparently something was wrong in the front right side strut and they had to replace it. Even the mechanic was stumped because the strut was fine from the outside and the car didn't bottom out either. I cannot say your issue and mine are connected by from what you say, it looks similar.
10-15-16, 11:45 PM
#4
Pole Position
I have a 2006 RX400h. It has 170k miles on it. We bought it with 122k miles on it.
When we bought it, it had bad tires. We replaced the tires all the way around and had them balanced, and now, 50k miles later, the front tires are completely worn down on the edges, but the center of the tread is fine, a couple millimeters from the wear bars. The rear tires (replaced at the same time) still look almost new. these are 70k mile tires. (yes, I suck at getting them rotated).
The issues are, most noticeable when braking but discernible at all times, especially when not under power (coasting or decelerating without braking), the car feels like it’s hopping or shuddering slightly. If I happen to be hitting the brakes going down a large hill (such as the one i LIVE ON, DAMNIT), the shuddering can get quite severe. It is somewhat discernible under mild acceleration but almost imperceptible under hard acceleration. There has also always been an accompanying creaking and clunking sound, especially when turning the wheels one way or the other, also especially when turning to the maximum rotation. Also, driving the vehicle over bumpy surfaces, such as a blacktop parking lot, a speed bump, a pot hole, etc, produces a lot of audible rattle. It does not sound like a sheet metal rattle, but more like heavier metal that is loose, like two heavy metal items that are slapping around loosely but bolted together. as if the bolts had worked loose.
I was trying to diagnose the issue today, and was thinking ball joints. I lifted the front end and tried to shift the wheels up or down, shaking them, and there was zero play in them at all. moving the steering wheel does NOT produce any noise when the front end is off the ground. everything appears to be tight and in reasonably good condition considering the age. all gaskets and bushings appear to be in excellent visual shape with the possible exception of the lower control arm bushings, which I can’t really see.
I lowered the front end onto the ground again, and had my wife assist me by turning the wheels while I held onto the various joints to feel for the clunking. results were:
1. lower ball joint solid, no play or popping.
2. sway bar link solid, good condition, looks replaced probably around when I bought it. no clunking or looseness in either loaded or unloaded states.
3. tie rod bushings look great, no unusual wear discernible and appear to be in good working order.
4. moving the wheel using power steering, from one end of rotation to the other, produces a clunk in each direction at the end of directional travel. strut assembly seems to do a little rotation dance as the wheel turns, but no visible movement associated with the clunk.
5. pushing on the car side to side, or on the driver’s tire, side to side (top pushed inward to engine compartment and pulled outward again, rocking back and forth) produces a clunk that is very noticeable and very easily felt throughout the tire and wheel assembly, and the strut tower assembly, but not so much in the control arm or ball joint.
6. following the noise and clunk, felt the strut assembly and discovered that it is producing the largest amount of tactile feedback during the clunking or side to side rocking. it is solid feeling at the wheel assembly, so I checked the other end having removed the cover under the hood to view it. The top bolt appears to make a visible movement when the clunk happens, and it feels like it moves with the clunk.
I’m now thinking strut assembly, but I do not know what parts would cause this, and why it would rattle so much, especially going over bumps. The clunking is during turns, the rattling is on bumps at any speed.
ok, since we bought the car, we’ve replaced:
1. the wheel bearings (at a shop). This did not fix the issue.
2. The brakes were done at the lexus dealer, all 4 rotors and pads. Issue still not fixed.
so I turn to you amazing experts, please, tell me what i have going on in this thing. It’s my wife’s car and I’m honestly getting afraid to let her drive it around. I also can’t afford to have a dealership fix it or jack me around on charging to diagnose it.
When we bought it, it had bad tires. We replaced the tires all the way around and had them balanced, and now, 50k miles later, the front tires are completely worn down on the edges, but the center of the tread is fine, a couple millimeters from the wear bars. The rear tires (replaced at the same time) still look almost new. these are 70k mile tires. (yes, I suck at getting them rotated).
The issues are, most noticeable when braking but discernible at all times, especially when not under power (coasting or decelerating without braking), the car feels like it’s hopping or shuddering slightly. If I happen to be hitting the brakes going down a large hill (such as the one i LIVE ON, DAMNIT), the shuddering can get quite severe. It is somewhat discernible under mild acceleration but almost imperceptible under hard acceleration. There has also always been an accompanying creaking and clunking sound, especially when turning the wheels one way or the other, also especially when turning to the maximum rotation. Also, driving the vehicle over bumpy surfaces, such as a blacktop parking lot, a speed bump, a pot hole, etc, produces a lot of audible rattle. It does not sound like a sheet metal rattle, but more like heavier metal that is loose, like two heavy metal items that are slapping around loosely but bolted together. as if the bolts had worked loose.
I was trying to diagnose the issue today, and was thinking ball joints. I lifted the front end and tried to shift the wheels up or down, shaking them, and there was zero play in them at all. moving the steering wheel does NOT produce any noise when the front end is off the ground. everything appears to be tight and in reasonably good condition considering the age. all gaskets and bushings appear to be in excellent visual shape with the possible exception of the lower control arm bushings, which I can’t really see.
I lowered the front end onto the ground again, and had my wife assist me by turning the wheels while I held onto the various joints to feel for the clunking. results were:
1. lower ball joint solid, no play or popping.
2. sway bar link solid, good condition, looks replaced probably around when I bought it. no clunking or looseness in either loaded or unloaded states.
3. tie rod bushings look great, no unusual wear discernible and appear to be in good working order.
4. moving the wheel using power steering, from one end of rotation to the other, produces a clunk in each direction at the end of directional travel. strut assembly seems to do a little rotation dance as the wheel turns, but no visible movement associated with the clunk.
5. pushing on the car side to side, or on the driver’s tire, side to side (top pushed inward to engine compartment and pulled outward again, rocking back and forth) produces a clunk that is very noticeable and very easily felt throughout the tire and wheel assembly, and the strut tower assembly, but not so much in the control arm or ball joint.
6. following the noise and clunk, felt the strut assembly and discovered that it is producing the largest amount of tactile feedback during the clunking or side to side rocking. it is solid feeling at the wheel assembly, so I checked the other end having removed the cover under the hood to view it. The top bolt appears to make a visible movement when the clunk happens, and it feels like it moves with the clunk.
I’m now thinking strut assembly, but I do not know what parts would cause this, and why it would rattle so much, especially going over bumps. The clunking is during turns, the rattling is on bumps at any speed.
ok, since we bought the car, we’ve replaced:
1. the wheel bearings (at a shop). This did not fix the issue.
2. The brakes were done at the lexus dealer, all 4 rotors and pads. Issue still not fixed.
so I turn to you amazing experts, please, tell me what i have going on in this thing. It’s my wife’s car and I’m honestly getting afraid to let her drive it around. I also can’t afford to have a dealership fix it or jack me around on charging to diagnose it.
10-16-16, 08:35 PM
#5
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alas, no fix yet. To be honest, I have not done much with it. We've decided to be rid of it in December and go back to Mercedes Benz. I hear a GLC calling my name... Never had a lick of problems with our mercedes'. This method of engineering the front suspension in the RX series lexus just seems really, to be blunt, dumb as ****. The entire track and carry of the front suspension, not to mention the safety factor, is tied into a single strut assembly? If that strut lets go, the entire bottom half of the wheel can cam outward and you will have frame on ground and potential death. just idiotic. That goes to show the experience Toyota has with luxury midsize suv's.
10-17-16, 07:14 AM
#7
I will say that 50k on a set a tires is very good. I just went into Discount Tire because my tires are once again, getting down there. We've bought several sets for this Lexus and I always seem to get some warranty cash back because the car eats these tires up. After 3 or 4 sets, he said that they all have lasted approx. 35k per set. It didn't really matter what kind of tire either, however the worst were the Yokahama ones. I've had Michelins and now on Bridgestone's. On the last purchase, I decided to get cheaper tires with the highest rating so that I would get more back on the next go around. So the Bridgestone's are 80,000 mile tires (all others were 65,000). None have made it past 40k.
And I try to rotate regularly because I'm trying to get them to last longer...guess that doesn't work.
And I try to rotate regularly because I'm trying to get them to last longer...guess that doesn't work.
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10-17-16, 09:48 AM
#8
^ reduce your negative camber and increase your tire pressures. You might want to decrease your toe in as well, depending on what the wear pattern is on your old tires.
not sure what you mean by 'rotate regularly', professionals say every 3k miles for max tire wear, but i just do it with an oil change, every 5k miles.
not sure what you mean by 'rotate regularly', professionals say every 3k miles for max tire wear, but i just do it with an oil change, every 5k miles.
10-17-16, 11:09 AM
#9
^ reduce your negative camber and increase your tire pressures. You might want to decrease your toe in as well, depending on what the wear pattern is on your old tires.
not sure what you mean by 'rotate regularly', professionals say every 3k miles for max tire wear, but i just do it with an oil change, every 5k miles.
not sure what you mean by 'rotate regularly', professionals say every 3k miles for max tire wear, but i just do it with an oil change, every 5k miles.
03-23-17, 10:23 PM
#10
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ok, I’m back on this one. Just had front struts done. Had all 4 rotors and pads replaced at dealer. Full alignment done. STILL Getting a very strong and pronounced shaking and vibration of the steering wheel and entire vehicle when braking. Especially when braking going downhill.
I noticed something else, it does NOT appear to do it if I brake VERY hard, like in an emergency braking situation. It is worse if I am braking gently. If I am descending a hill, and am lightly riding the brakes (like the one I have to go down daily to get anywhere outside my neighborhood), it will start to shake, and go from barely noticeable to severe by the time I get to the bottom of the hill. This hill is about 1/2 mile long, and and varies in grade. I am running hankook tires on it. I cannot afford to do much more on this vehicle and I am planning on getting rid of the damned thing within the year, especially if I cannot resolve this problem soon.
My lower control arm bushings are worn and cracking. I am unsure if this could/would cause the exact issue at hand, reliably, exactly as described. I’m open to feedback on this, and any other suggestions. If suggesting new bushings, should I do OEM, or aftermarket, and suggestions for those? Should I have it done or do it myself. I’m getting less and less good at DIY stuff and this is our daily driver, it MUST work for us, every day.
I noticed something else, it does NOT appear to do it if I brake VERY hard, like in an emergency braking situation. It is worse if I am braking gently. If I am descending a hill, and am lightly riding the brakes (like the one I have to go down daily to get anywhere outside my neighborhood), it will start to shake, and go from barely noticeable to severe by the time I get to the bottom of the hill. This hill is about 1/2 mile long, and and varies in grade. I am running hankook tires on it. I cannot afford to do much more on this vehicle and I am planning on getting rid of the damned thing within the year, especially if I cannot resolve this problem soon.
My lower control arm bushings are worn and cracking. I am unsure if this could/would cause the exact issue at hand, reliably, exactly as described. I’m open to feedback on this, and any other suggestions. If suggesting new bushings, should I do OEM, or aftermarket, and suggestions for those? Should I have it done or do it myself. I’m getting less and less good at DIY stuff and this is our daily driver, it MUST work for us, every day.
05-03-18, 04:26 AM
#11
a question also hit a pothole everything seemed ok til I took it out for a long drive , the steering wheel was shaking bad then when I got the GX up to 55 the wheel stopped shaking, then noticed when I braked it was starting to shake also , took to tire place did a balance of tires and rotated , anyone have a clue on what this could be , taking to dealer (Toyota ) for a check up ?
TIA
TIA
Last edited by Tipler; 05-04-18 at 05:13 PM. Reason: more info
05-04-18, 05:12 PM
#13
Not sure the tire pressure , yes took the GX in for trie balance on all tires and rotated them . tires are 2 years old , took it out after , still have the shake when I brake hard , thanks
05-09-18, 04:16 PM
#14
Diagnosed was Calipers were frozen up, so new brakes and calipers are being done . cost $800 .Toyota dealership service dept ,
didn't know this issue caused my steering wheel to shake like it did, who would of thought the caliper
didn't know this issue caused my steering wheel to shake like it did, who would of thought the caliper
Last edited by Tipler; 05-09-18 at 04:20 PM.
10-18-19, 07:37 PM
#15
Pole Position
Yeah, you want to use the OEM Toyota fluid in these.
Did they check both prop shafts for worn bearings? (one runs to the front differential from the transfer case, the other to the rear)
Chip H.
Did they check both prop shafts for worn bearings? (one runs to the front differential from the transfer case, the other to the rear)
Chip H.