code58

I'm curious as to how he put his hand on the idler pulley. The ONLY place you could put your hand on it is the bolt that holds it on deep in the center of the pulley. I realize you could (that's where I would put the MS), but I would think most mechanics would rather use a MS than get that close with their hand to A LOT of moving parts. The amplification of a MS is so much better than "feeling" for a rough bearing. Waiting for the outcome. Now you know why I have always done all my own work.

code58

Art, I don't blame you for wanting to sleep well and the only way to do that would be to replace the W/P. I'm curious as to how you (or they) determined it was a sticky bearing in the pump? If man builds it, anything is possible, but the W/P is nothing short of amazing in the design. The seal system (almost always the weak point in a W/P, that starts leaking and then lets water into the bearings) is SOMETHING to behold. I can't imagine how water could EVER get to the bearing. And then it uses a double bearing that is sealed with I believe 3 different types of seals (1 being ceramic) and a more than adequate weep hole that would let any water out that got past the 1st seal before it could ever get to the next 2 seals (and the bearing) and the seals are spring loaded also. I can't believe they ever rebuild those pumps because they are very adaquately "spun crimped" at the front end under the drive pulley once the guts are installed and then the pulley is pressed on. And it is designed so that the pressure on the bearings is EXACTLY over the center of the 2 bearings. Quite a piece of work!

artbuc

Roger, I was comparing the WP in my wife's RX to the one in my Avalon. The RX turned smooth as silk. The Avalon didn't. I had to use a tad more force to make it turn and once it started it required much less force. That is what I mean by "sticking". Like I said before, it probably would have run that way forever, but I changed it for peace of mind.

splacek007

I read on here that the OEM w/p is no longer Aisin...I did not confirm that when I received the part, b/c I had already bought it. But just a thought.

code58

The little kid curiosity in me is now satisfied. I understand and don't blame you for changing, I would have done the same... then I would have cut it apart to see what was going on.

code58

That will be interesting to see if it is actually true. If it was an American Co. I would say that the water pumps were lasting to long, and they couldn't have that, but I wouldn't accuse Toyota of that. Aisin makes other parts for Toyota... is it Aisin that is part owned by Toyota??? I know one of their parts manufacturers is. Seem like in America whenever a company builds a truly quality part, the inferior competitor buys them out and eliminates that quality, replaced by inferior quality.

99rx

iTrader: (6)

Not to try to tell you whats what, but gates makes pretty much all the equipment for the timing belt, etc, for all car makers. In my opinion they are the best around. This is just what I've heard working in a company that supplies to dealerships.

code58

Probably heard that from someone who has a degree (maybe even an advanced degree) in scatology, if you know what I mean. BS is pretty cheap, for a good reason, but you put it on your lawn and on the fields, not on the general public. Tell me, are you by any chance a salesman for a Gates distributor??? I'll answer that... probably!

artbuc

The Gates JV with Unitta in Japan makes OEM belts for Toyota which I assume are on par with Mitsuboshi. However, any Gates belt you buy here will not come from Gates-Unitta. It may come from any number of Gates factories around the world which have been acquired. Just because Gates is the "mother" company, the locally made belts are made with legacy equipment and quality standards. Also, if you get a Gates TB kit, the WP and bearings will be made by GMB or whoever else is the low bidder.

If you are going to the trouble of replacing the TB, WP and supporting parts, do yourself a favor and get factory stuff. Just my opinion.

99rx

iTrader: (6)

Actually NO. I am a 17 year old working at a company that distributes parts to dealers all around florida. Sorry for trying to give my 2cents. THANKS.

code58

Art- I realize this counts for nothing because this was quite a few years ago and things change by the minute anymore, but I bought belts for a Pontiac Bonneville from Pep Boys. After a short time when I would start the car to go to work it would sound like it had a rod knock (pretty pronounced). We bought the car new and I maintained it meticulously so I knew that wasn't likely. After a few days of this I had had enough. I lay under the front of the car after I started it one morning and the "knock" sounded like it came from the front of the engine. I went and got a can of WD-40 and sprayed the belts will it was running. The "knock" was instantly gone. The belts seemed to "grab" the pulley as they went around and the knock was the releasing from the pulleys. A year or so later I heard the lot helper start his Ford SW and heard the SAME EXACT noise. I walked over and asked him what it was. He said "don't know". I asked if he had changed the belts recently and he said he had just changed them. Where did he buy them??? Pep Boys! I told him to take 'em back, like I did. He did and no more "knock" with a different brand of belts. These were Pep Boys belts, but made by Gates! I know this is apples and oranges, but I don't think I've bought Gates since then.
Pep Boys has sold Dayco for some time now and I don't think they even have the house brand any more.

splacek007

Update***10/7

Turns out likely not the OEM pulley that was replaced for $380! I took the RX back to the same shop, they took the passenger side apart, called me over and had me listen w/ a MS - they could not locate the noise for sure, and being unfamiliar w/ Lexus in gen., advised that I take it to somewhere else that is familiar w/ these issues...there is a noise, just likely not the pulley that was replaced. The MS is interesting, but when a noise travels like that, I'm not sure where it's coming from. The local shop offered to make it right....which I appreciate, they're honest. When I used the MS it sounded like it was coming from the front cam area that was spinning w/ the timing belt. Not the alternator (belt was removed and still a noise)...anyone have issues w/ the cam?

Code-you're right. I couldn't "feel" the idler pulley. It was spinning like mad. It was difficult to put the MS anywhere near it.

I made an appt. w/ a shop out-of-town that does Lexus work all the time. I'll update w/ what they say. I know it's a non-interference engine, but there is still a chance of bent valves if that timing machinery comes apart...rather not take that chance.

salimshah

There is one thing that bothers me from the thread-start-post. AFTER WARM...

So what changes ... coolant flow as the thermostat opens up.

That would point to water-pump. During reassembly some thing could have gone wrong.


With engine COLD and radiator cold, open the cap and then start the engine. Watch the coolant flow through the opening and if the squeal starts just when the coolant flow bumps up, that can point to the water-pump.

Come to think of it . if you have air trapped in the pump, it can produce a sound too and the fix can be as easy as burping the coolant circuit.


These are wild thoughts and shooting in the dark ... I hope I dont send you on a wild goose chase.

Salim

code58

007- You are right, the noise does travel and with it being magnified, everything sounds bad, even the stuff that's not! BUT, when you get to the item that is BAD, it becomes really obvious! That is easier naturally with external things like alt. & A/C compressor, but still can fairly well pinpoint internal noises. The probe just needs to be placed at different points to pick up the loudest noise. The idler pulley can be reached with a SHORT probe directly into the center of the pulley onto the bolt that holds the pulley on, that's about the only place you could pick up anything with the pulley spinning, but it should pick up a bearing noise easily there. Obviously it would likely need the upper timing belt cover off. Some may be a little squemish about putting the MS probe near turning parts, but I have a steady hand and feel the knowledge gained is worth the risk. I have never had a MS eaten yet! Wish I could tell you about the valve train (from pulley to valves) but I haven't had any experience in that respect in this engine.

code58

Art- I looked on my wife's '11 Camry and I realize they are ALL built here in the states (that are sold here, my wife's '02 was actually built in Japan), but the belts (they are both spring loaded serpentine belts now, 1- 4 groove & 1- 3 groove) are made by Bando. I have seen that name before but don't know anything about 'em. The last belts I got from the Toyota dealer for my DIL's RX said "Made in United States" on the sleeve, nothing but Toyota on the belt itself.

Addl. Went back and Googled Bando and they have plants in several countries, but are headquartered in Japan. They show about a gazillion belts! They have a plant here so those belts are most likely made here.